Parents Too old for JO?

[jessimee]

I am very new to the gymnastics world so I'm looking for help understanding some of this. I have two girls, 7 and 9, who have been in the rec program at our gym. My first question is about the 9 year old. She is currently doing two level 2 classes per week and is super-focused, super committed and really wants to go to the JO team when she moves up. She seems to have a lot of skills that I don't see the other girls in her class having, esp. tumbling--she can do back handsprings, back flips, and when I see her doing her skills they look very tight and good (I can compare to my 7 year old who has brute strength, but doesn't have her skills down as nicely). But I was told, without anyone even evaluating her (except her "coach" who is a high school student), that she cannot join the JO team simply because she's too old. This tells me that the gym is more concerned about making high scores at meets and their reputation, than the goals of their athletes. And why would her age even matter? If she could score high in level 3 with good coaching (she's learned all she has with pretty poor coaching in the rec classes), why is her age an issue? Is this how it is everywhere? And why do high school "coaches" without much training in coaching elite athletes get to decide her future path in gymnastics?

 

[sce]

It is common for gyms to have their own standard for team, which can include an age cutoff. Not all gyms are that stringent though. If she really wants to do JO then check other gyms out.

 

[GymDad9.9]

Not all gyms. Two years ago we had an 11 year old join Level 2 team without ever having a day of formal gymnastics training, become State champion that year. The following year competed Level 4, then changed gyms and immediately competed Xcel Platinum as a path to Level 7/8.

 

[SMH]

Check other gyms out if there is the opportunity. We have several 'too old' girls who came to our gym to compete, one (a 9 yr old) in fact not only won every single meet she attended, but she also got the highest all around score at states- in the entire state. Your kiddo may be 'too old' for the standard of the gym you are at, but really 9 is not ancient. Our level 3 team includes just turned 7 yr olds all the way to 12 year olds.

 

[momof2gymmies]

Mine were too old when they made team. They were in second and third grade. So they are doing xcel. I dislike it, but there is not another gym that is possible to drive to, so it is either xcel or quit. And our xcel team is competitive. My girls are happy so it has all worked out for them, but if she really wants JO you should look at other gyms.

 

[Amanda]

It definitely varies between gyms. My daughter just moved to a JO team this year at the age of 10. Was it just the high coach who told you she was too old? If so, I would try and talk to someone else to do see if they would at least evaluate her. Good luck! You should be able to find a place where 9 isn't too old.

 

[Gam15]

I would look at other gyms. I don't understand their "we want higher scores at meets" reasoning. I would think that means they won't turn talented girls away, no matter what age. We're at a fairly high-performing gym (of course I think it's the best around, but I'm biased!) and they seem to welcome the older girls. We have a lot of middle school girls doing level 3, 4, and 5. My daughter came up pretty quickly through rec and is now 10, competing level 3. Just wanted to edit to add--10 still seems quite young? If you do the math, and IF things go 100% perfectly, those girls could still have two years at level 10 before graduating high school!

 

[QueenBee]

It is a waste of time and energy to try to argue with a gym over its philosophy regarding team placement. Find another gym whose philosophy will allow your child to attempt to reach her goals.

 

[Sasha]

Many gyms will welcome a 9 year old into JO, especially one who has demonstrated attention to form and detail, and shows some natural talent.

First, you should ask someone in charge of the team program before writing off your gym. Don't rely on the high school rec coach alone. She (?) may just be repeating what she has been told to say generally to parents (because, honestly, the majority of girls in rec are not going to be team-bound), or projecting her own ideas about who gets selected. Or even if generally your gym does have age rules, if your daughter is a standout, there could be an exception. The point is to get the info from the people who actually make the decisions - most likely the Head Compulsory Coach (or equivalent). So start there.

Assuming, however, that your gym does have strict age limits on team, know that this is not standard everywhere. If there are other options within your area, start calling around and ask about the process to try out for JO team/pre-team. Set up tryouts/evaluations for your DDs and go from there.

As for why age is a factor in many JO programs, coaches want to focus their team on girls who they think will be the easiest to coach to a high level long term. Many coaches find it easier to spot younger, smaller athletes. Also, many coaches state that 'fears' set in around middle school age, and so they want to get the girls into some bigger skills (Optionals) before they are old enough to become too fearful. Now, of course, a younger girl can have fears as well, but a theme I have heard from multiple coaches in person (and here on CB) is that fears tend to come more into play as one gets older. "Young, strong, small and fearless" is a mantra of a good number of coaches. My daughter has been rejected by gyms for being older (and taller) than their ideal vision. Fortunately, she found coaches that believe in her, and is rocking it.

 

[gymgal]

Check with a higher rank coach in your gym to clarify. Also, look at your gym's lower level teams. Are they all the same height/age/build? If so, then you know what type of gym you are dealing with in terms of whether your dd will have a chance for their team. As others have noted - seek out other gyms who do not have as strict policies about age and team.

What Sasha said about wanting them younger for spotting, fear, etc is true. Also - they want their girls reaching L10 at a certain age, which means there is a critical age by which the girls can enter team. Same is true if they have an elite program. While there is no one way to get to L10 or elite, many gyms follow the path most likely to achieve this and the feel that younger gymnasts are easier to mold, develop a love for gymnastics above all other activities, etc.

 

[Nikki4]

Definitely talk to other coaches and if 9 really is too old for their program, reach out to other gyms. You may could even ask current gym for a recommendation.
Our level 5 team had girls from 9-13.

 

[gymbeam]

As you've found out, age cutoffs are different at every gym. Our gym is one that has low age cutoffs for JO. I often have to defend that because it isn't always like you said... its not always because they are "concerned about scores and their reputation".

In our case, our gym is really big and there are only so many strong, experienced JO coaches- the owner being one of them. He likes to be able to work with each JO team member which means his team size is limited by the number of hours in day pretty much. Also, our JO team is specifically intended to be a college path program so he only takes girls he feels have college potential. College potential these days generally translates to reaching Level 10 by around 9th grade. So, considering an athlete's age is unavoidable if you are trying to develop NCAA gymnasts.

Every gym/program has different goals and while that makes some way more exclusive than others- it doesn't mean it has dishonorable motives. Just different ones.

 

[Aussie_coach]

She is not too old for JO, it is my understanding that there is no age limit. But every gym will set their own age limits and expectations. Many gyms do have age limits, mine included so I would like to give you a little background into why I have made that desicion.

One of the most difficult times int he gymnastics journey is the puberty years. At this time kids are growing at a rapid rate and they are far more prone to injury than at any other time. If you,look at the time line for a kid who is 9 or 10, if they start team at this age, then at the time they are going through puberty it will be the same time the hours are increasing, the difficulty level is increasing and the injury risk is increasing. This can be a formula for serious injury. Our aim is to hit that point prior to puberty, so when the girls are going through puberty they are maintaining hours not increasing them to minimise the risks.

The safety of the gymnasts should always be the number 1 priority of the gym. This is not the case in all gyms, just why many gyms make such a ruling.

The other issue is that gymnastics skills are much easier to learn prior to puberty. Once kids hit puberty their body composition can change very quickly and set them back. Fear often sets in and kids have to continually adjust what they are doing as they continue to grow and hit peak height velocity. I know at 9 puberty is usually still a few years away, but if she is just starting Team then her peak skill learning period, when the core basics have been mastered and she is ready to learn significant skills is also a few years away, and it is very, very difficult when these two times clash. Imagine teaching a child the most difficult skills they will ever have to learn right at the same time they start to develop fear and are growing rapidly and having a change in centre of gravity almost each lesson.

The other aspect could also be due to spotting. In the earlier team years there is a lot of spotting to be done. Many if the core skills can only be learned with constant spotting. Once a gymnast reaches a more advanced level this can be reduced as their development has reached a stage where theynhave enough background to be able to learn many skills through drills. This is a big reason why teams start with very young kids. Spotting can cause extreme wear and tear on a coaches body, coaches need to look after their bodies first and foremost as they can't successfully do their job and safety catch children if they are physically hurt. Keeping participants in the early levels under a certain age, so as to ensure they are small enough is a strategy gyms may use to keep their coaches safe.

Again I am not saying this means your daughter is too old, I am simply explaining why many gyms make this desicion. It is rarely about scoring well, because older participants often score better. Many have smaller divisions so are more likely to win and are better able to put the finishing touches on their routines when they are older that give them higher scores.

 

[gymbeam]

@Aussie_coach - So glad you added all those great points. My daughter's head coach had said all of those same things to us, but I had forgotten them!

My daughter who is prepubertal and training level 9 is doing high than average hours now, but it has been mentioned that she will be able to reduce hours in another year or two for the exact reasons you stated. (Trying to get used to the big skills before puberty to reduce injury in particular.)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

There is a greater range then many would like you to think. . How they get skills and the time it takes may change. How far they are able go go may change.

You might have to train differently and adjust expectations but most kids can do JO

 

[gymbeam]

That's the thing- I think people hear things differently and some hear the age limit as saying those outside of it couldn't do JO.

Pretty sure, however, that everyone realizes that anyone can do JO.

But not everyone can do JO at every gym.

The programs are so different depending on where you go.

And that's OK.

The take away should be that there are just as many valid reasons for some programs to limit age as there are valid reasons for some programs to not.

 

[jessimee]

Thank you all for all of your responses! It was very helpful information!

She is not too old for JO, it is my understanding that there is no age limit. But every gym will set their own age limits and expectations. Many gyms do have age limits, mine included so I would like to give you a little background into why I have made that desicion.

One of the most difficult times int he gymnastics journey is the puberty years. At this time kids are growing at a rapid rate and they are far more prone to injury than at any other time. If you,look at the time line for a kid who is 9 or 10, if they start team at this age, then at the time they are going through puberty it will be the same time the hours are increasing, the difficulty level is increasing and the injury risk is increasing. This can be a formula for serious injury. Our aim is to hit that point prior to puberty, so when the girls are going through puberty they are maintaining hours not increasing them to minimise the risks.

The safety of the gymnasts should always be the number 1 priority of the gym. This is not the case in all gyms, just why many gyms make such a ruling.

The other issue is that gymnastics skills are much easier to learn prior to puberty. Once kids hit puberty their body composition can change very quickly and set them back. Fear often sets in and kids have to continually adjust what they are doing as they continue to grow and hit peak height velocity. I know at 9 puberty is usually still a few years away, but if she is just starting Team then her peak skill learning period, when the core basics have been mastered and she is ready to learn significant skills is also a few years away, and it is very, very difficult when these two times clash. Imagine teaching a child the most difficult skills they will ever have to learn right at the same time they start to develop fear and are growing rapidly and having a change in centre of gravity almost each lesson.

The other aspect could also be due to spotting. In the earlier team years there is a lot of spotting to be done. Many if the core skills can only be learned with constant spotting. Once a gymnast reaches a more advanced level this can be reduced as their development has reached a stage where theynhave enough background to be able to learn many skills through drills. This is a big reason why teams start with very young kids. Spotting can cause extreme wear and tear on a coaches body, coaches need to look after their bodies first and foremost as they can't successfully do their job and safety catch children if they are physically hurt. Keeping participants in the early levels under a certain age, so as to ensure they are small enough is a strategy gyms may use to keep their coaches safe.

Again I am not saying this means your daughter is too old, I am simply explaining why many gyms make this desicion. It is rarely about scoring well, because older participants often score better. Many have smaller divisions so are more likely to win and are better able to put the finishing touches on their routines when they are older that give them higher scores.

Thank you for such a detailed explanation! I appreciate you (and all the other posters) taking the time to respond. It would be a nice idea for gyms to have a sort of "parent university" for the rec program parents to explain all this. Our only interaction is usually with the high schoolers teaching the rec kids. This really explains a lot. I appreciate understanding the developmental aspects of learning gymnastics and the wear and tear on the coaches argument. Apparently our gym is a good one--sends lots of kids to nationals anyway. I know my girls will probably never reach that level, but I hope they will be allowed to pursue their dreams and go as far as they are able to. I do think coming to the sport of their own accord, after trying other sports, is good. They have chosen it, not me. My 4 year old son, on the other hand, has been forced into it, because I'm not willing to drive him anywhere else at this point!

 

[gymbeam]

@bogwoppit , this question comes up so often and aussiecoaches explanation is so great, would this thread be a good one to sticky for referring back to?

 

[BachFlyer]

It would be a nice idea for gyms to have a sort of "parent university" for the rec program parents to explain all this.

Agree 5000%. It is only reasonable that gyms share this information with paying customers when they sign up. The rec program is full of kids hoping to make team one day, especially when the gym has a college-focused upper level team because families are often making decisions based on the gyms reputation. These families keep showing up and paying for sessions hoping their child gets noticed one day, with no real understanding of how that process works. I think that business model is unfair, when we all know that rec classes help to financially support the team program. Transparency is always the most ethical choice when money and kids are involved.

I know my girls will probably never reach that level, but I hope they will be allowed to pursue their dreams and go as far as they are able to. I do think coming to the sport of their own accord, after trying other sports, is good. They have chosen it, not me.

I hope so, too. My daughter started at 8 at a smaller gym that gave her a chance, and is now a multi-year level 10 college bound gymnast, and I know many kids like her. She did ultimately switch to gym with a larger, more successful option program after a few seasons, but the point is that it's not too late to start down the road and see where it takes them. If you find your current gym won't facilitate the opportunity, then find one that will. My personal opinion is that a talented, hard working 8-10 year old can pick up skills faster than a talented 6 year old, because they have more body awareness, focus, and the capacity to equate hard work and goals with results. Plus, if they do get to optionals and college, that's two to three years LESS of wear and tear on their bodies. Win-Win.

 

[gymbeam]

I hope so, too. My daughter started at 8 at a smaller gym that gave her a chance, and is now a multi-year level 10 college bound gymnast, and I know many kids like her. She did ultimately switch to gym with a larger, more successful option program after a few seasons, but the point is that it's not too late to start down the road and see where it takes them. If you find your current gym won't facilitate the opportunity, then find one that will. My personal opinion is that a talented, hard working 8-10 year old can pick up skills faster than a talented 6 year old, because they have more body awareness, focus, and the capacity to equate hard work and goals with results. Plus, if they do get to optionals and college, that's two to three years LESS of wear and tear on their bodies. Win-Win.

Sounds similar to our story, too. Started as an 8 year old at a small gym, then one year later switched to a very competitive gym where she was automatically placed in Xcel due to age. She was bummed, but if that was the only way to do gymnastics, she agreed. She competed Xcel one year and her progress and work ethic during that year ended up proving she could indeed fit into their JO program after all. She's now been in JO for 2 years and just finished up Level 8 in the top 2% at Region 8 Regionals.

She and I were both feeling like so many others do about the age thing during that year she was in Xcel. So I totally understand the frustration and disappointment that other families experience when age alone separates the kids from possibly reaching their highest goals. It almost happened to my daughter and we consider ourselves very lucky now that they made an exception for her. Even though I now completely understand and support all the reasons that I gave and aussiecoach gave, I do have to say that I wish every gym had the time and resources to give everyone a chance because I am positive some great potential is being missed by ruling out "older" girls.

Keep looking around if you have an older girl and encourage them not to give up wherever they are because nothing is permanent. Like my daughter did, they can still work really hard at Xcel and prove the coaches wrong!