Anon TOPS fomo

[Anonymous (3362)]

Hey everyone. I have an almost 8 year old daughter who has always had some stand out abilities when it comes to her gymnastics and athleticism (self taught press handstands at 5, precocious power and strength, etc) and has progressed quickly and well throughout her 2.5 years on team. However we live in a gymnastics desert of sorts with very few gyms and the ones that are around do not compete compulsories or have TOPS programs, have never qualified any elites, and rarely send kids D1.

We are at a gym that is good for my kid as a person; a safe, healthy coaching environment but she trains low hours and a fairly low level considering skillset. The gym takes its time to get girls to optionals with frequent level repeating. As my daughter has varied interests and isn’t a kid who is absolutely obsessed with gymnastics (she likes it a lot but doesn’t eat, sleep, breathe it) I have felt like the slower paced environment is probably just fine for her so haven’t given it much more thought.

However, recently I’ve had several people much more knowledgeable in the gymnastics world see her or footage of her and be very confused by her current level and insist she needs a TOPS program. I’ve always written off TOPS as a conditioning torture program and told myself it is not necessary for high level success in the sport. Am I wrong? Is it necessary for D1 level gymnastics? We have no aspirations for elite and I know with her age she has likely passed the point of that even being an option anyway but I do want to make sure I don’t close doors for her for college, level 9-10 etc before she is old enough to really know what she wants from the sport. We would likely need to commute 1.5 hours each way to find a TOPS program so I’d love to hear from people who really know this world if it is absolutely necessary for her development should she choose to try to make it to those high levels.

Is she missing out on something crucial by not being in a gym with TOPS etc? Can we supplement strength work enough at home to make up the deficit if so? I know it’s a rigorous program she may not even like anyway so I feel sort of paralyzed as to how to proceed and worried I’m reading way too much into her ability anyway. Thanks for taking the time to read and I’d so value any advice.

 

[Anonymous (c587)]

My daughter was offered the chance to train for TOPS when she was 6. She was a Covid kid and it would have involved missing school once she’d finally gotten to go back in-person, so I said no. I didn’t fully understand TOPS back then and it was the old program. I think she would have really benefited from it. I don’t think she would have done well with new TOPS because she didn’t progress fast enough and she wouldn’t have had the skills.

I don’t think you should get too caught up in it. TOPS is big in our area but not all gyms do it. The girls at the gyms who didn’t do it who were young phenoms are perfectly competitive with the girls who had it. And as I look through rosters of girls who did TOPS training vs made TOPS camps, the program doesn’t do anything but emphasize girls who were already quite talented. It doesn’t take average gymnasts and turn them into phenoms. I felt better once I realized that- my daughter would have spent a lot of time on TOPS training but wouldn’t have made it to any national rankings and she would have still been a level-per-year kid.

You don’t even need TOPS for elite, let alone NCAA. Don’t move or commute 90 minutes for it!

 

[Anonymous (3362)]

My daughter was offered the chance to train for TOPS when she was 6. She was a Covid kid and it would have involved missing school once she’d finally gotten to go back in-person, so I said no. I didn’t fully understand TOPS back then and it was the old program. I think she would have really benefited from it. I don’t think she would have done well with new TOPS because she didn’t progress fast enough and she wouldn’t have had the skills.

I don’t think you should get too caught up in it. TOPS is big in our area but not all gyms do it. The girls at the gyms who didn’t do it who were young phenoms are perfectly competitive with the girls who had it. And as I look through rosters of girls who did TOPS training vs made TOPS camps, the program doesn’t do anything but emphasize girls who were already quite talented. It doesn’t take average gymnasts and turn them into phenoms. I felt better once I realized that- my daughter would have spent a lot of time on TOPS training but wouldn’t have made it to any national rankings and she would have still been a level-per-year kid.

You don’t even need TOPS for elite, let alone NCAA. Don’t move or commute 90 minutes for it!

That’s what my instinct has been telling me but it’s good to hear someone else say it. I really appreciate the feedback!

 

[Anonymous (32a9)]

Everyone has their own experience. TOPs is not needed to be successful BUT it absolutely makes a difference in establishing the best foundation and form for a gymnast. IF you go to a competent TOPs program (not just a program that does TOPs to generate additional revenue). If D1 is an eventual goal then TOPs will improve the probability of that happening, again nothing is guaranteed, but the numbers play out. Those 4 girls in that picture participated in the TOPs national training camp after qualifying, and were all top 5 recruits the past two years

If your daughter is just having fun, is not too enamored with gymnastics then there is no reason to invest that much into doing TOPs. Skip TOPs, wait another 2 years and assess if she has the gym bug to do college gym. If she does, then I would probably start looking for a better gym to accomplish that goal. But make no mistake, a gymnast who competed TOPs and was successful is going to have better form and foundational skills than one who hasnt.

 

[sun]

TOPs = tool for getting stronger, increase gymnastics ability imo
You can get stronger and increase gymnastics ability with all sorts of tools

 

[Anonymous (3362)]

View attachment 9374
Everyone has their own experience. TOPs is not needed to be successful BUT it absolutely makes a difference in establishing the best foundation and form for a gymnast. IF you go to a competent TOPs program (not just a program that does TOPs to generate additional revenue). If D1 is an eventual goal then TOPs will improve the probability of that happening, again nothing is guaranteed, but the numbers play out. Those 4 girls in that picture participated in the TOPs national training camp after qualifying, and were all top 5 recruits the past two years

If your daughter is just having fun, is not too enamored with gymnastics then there is no reason to invest that much into doing TOPs. Skip TOPs, wait another 2 years and assess if she has the gym bug to do college gym. If she does, then I would probably start looking for a better gym to accomplish that goal. But make no mistake, a gymnast who competed TOPs and was successful is going to have better form and foundational skills than one who hasnt.

Thanks. She loves gym more than any other activity she has ever done but she isn’t obsessive. She’ll be nearly out of TOPS age if we wait a couple years though but I do think she’ll likely need to switch gyms regardless just to be successful in optionals. I do wonder if like the previous response said if TOPS makes the gymnast or if the already extremely talented gymnasts are the ones we see in TOPS and they would have been so advanced and incredible regardless of TOPS?

 

[Anonymous (c042)]

We would likely need to commute 1.5 hours each way to find a TOPS program so I’d love to hear from people who really know this world if it is absolutely necessary for her development should she choose to try to make it to those high levels.

Is she missing out on something crucial by not being in a gym with TOPS etc? Can we supplement strength work enough at home to make up the deficit if so? I know it’s a rigorous program she may not even like anyway so I feel sort of paralyzed as to how to proceed and worried I’m reading way too much into her ability anyway. Thanks for taking the time to read and I’d so value any advice.

I live in an area with a good number of successful gyms, but not that many that do TOPS and none that do Hopes/Elite. I know one local gym that did TOPS for a while, but I don't think any of the gymnasts that were in that program are still in the sport and afaik that gym doesn't train TOPS anymore. Based on our experiences, I don't think it's necessary at all if the training is good otherwise. My daughter's gym has had many D1 gymnasts over the years and currently has somewhere around 25 level 10's including 5 committed seniors and a couple committed juniors and I don't think any have done TOPS.

But I am sure that if you have a gymnast that did well at TOPS and they stay in the sport, they are probably very talented and will continue to do well in level 10 and beyond.

Anyway, I personally wouldn't move or travel hours to access that kind of training and I can guarantee you that it isn't absolutely necessary for future high level success, although I guess it may be helpful.

 

[Anonymous (32a9)]

Thanks. She loves gym more than any other activity she has ever done but she isn’t obsessive. She’ll be nearly out of TOPS age if we wait a couple years though but I do think she’ll likely need to switch gyms regardless just to be successful in optionals. I do wonder if like the previous response said if TOPS makes the gymnast or if the already extremely talented gymnasts are the ones we see in TOPS and they would have been so advanced and incredible regardless of TOPS?

TOPs definitely makes the gymnast better. Even a very talented gymnast will improve with TOPs training. Of course a very talented gymnast will probably succeed regardless of participation in TOPs but again, if the goal is to reach D1 gymnastics TOPs training will increase your odds and the uber talented gymnast is very rare. The reason why is that TOPs training is not so much focus on skills, but on all the foundational elements needed to become a great gymnast, things like toe point, body shape, etc. Along with the strength training that leads to success. Its not "can the girl do a X skill as a 7 yo"

One has to remember the intent behind the TOPs program. It is to give a structured program to young gymnasts to potentially funnel them into elite development (Hopes, then elite). The structure part is for gyms that dont have a focus on elite to participate in this process, since there are many more gyms that dont train elites than those that do, thereby increasing the possibility of the US program identifying young talent at an early age. That is why gyms that train Hopes and Elite typically do not participate in TOPs, because they already are part of the elite program. Its kinda redundant for them to do TOPs since they are already identifying, training and developing elites. It's not because they think TOPs is a silly program.

But given what you say your daughter is at, I wouldnt do TOPs because it sounds like she is just not at that level of commitment to the sport (and absolutely nothing wrong with that). That's why I say in a couple of years re-evaluate. Yes the TOPs opportunity would be gone, but she would still be young enough to find a quality gym with a track record of L10 development on to college and still have a shot at making it. Hopefully I am making some sense here, all things being equal a girl that did TOPs will be a better gymnast than one who did not, generally, in the DP program.

 

[Anonymous (c587)]

I think that if your daughter is on the edge of aging out of TOPS, you should look at the skills portion of it to see if she’s anywhere close. Anyone can train TOPS but some gyms won’t touch you unless they know you could potentially succeed at the skills portion once they qualify for nationals. I think that has narrowed the focus of a lot of TOPS programs since the funnel narrows more quickly and the timeline has changed.

I’m sure I’m remembering it wrong, but it feels like the program has evolved to have an increased emphasis on skills than it did prior to the pandemic and the TOPS revamp, or at least that’s how it sounds from my conversations with parents of older gymnasts. I was told that the level of skill required for testing is much higher and less accessible than it used to be as an intentional screen for elite ability. Can anyone confirm if that’s true? The last time I looked the skills tested were level 4-7ish.

 

[Anonymous (3362)]

I think that if your daughter is on the edge of aging out of TOPS, you should look at the skills portion of it to see if she’s anywhere close. Anyone can train TOPS but some gyms won’t touch you unless they know you could potentially succeed at the skills portion once they qualify for nationals. I think that has narrowed the focus of a lot of TOPS programs since the funnel narrows more quickly and the timeline has changed.

I’m sure I’m remembering it wrong, but it feels like the program has evolved to have an increased emphasis on skills than it did prior to the pandemic and the TOPS revamp, or at least that’s how it sounds from my conversations with parents of older gymnasts. I was told that the level of skill required for testing is much higher and less accessible than it used to be as an intentional screen for elite ability. Can anyone confirm if that’s true? The last time I looked the skills tested were level 4-7ish.

Yes I don’t know the specifics but the routines they do now seem to be level 6/7 skills. My daughter isn’t quite 8 yet and is around level 5 in current abilities so she would have time if she didn’t test until 9-10. As far as the physical abilities side she already has a lot of the requirements even with her low hours but my guess is it would take 6 months to have all of them (ie connecting all the press handstands and that 1 minute handstand hold etc). But I think the question really was answered for me: if she doesn’t currently eat, sleep, and breathe gymnastics then TOPS is probably a bad idea for her. I think maybe I’m worried that as she gets older and more dialed in she may end up getting a lot more serious about it and have missed her window but if I started her in a grueling program when she’s not 100% in and begging to do it then she will likely never develop that fire so to speak and will probably end up wanting to be done. I don’t want to give the impression that she’s lukewarm about gymnastics; she has been doing it now for four years and has always loved it and wanted to go. But she also loves art and reading and swimming and playing outside and building with Legos etc. She isn’t that kid who is either at gymnastics or practicing gymnastics at home. She is all in when she’s at the gym but at home she’s home (although she watches movies in head or handstand and chasée, step, leaps everytime she goes from room to room ).
I think the answer is unless she is asking me for more, more, more then we don’t seek it out even if that puts her “behind” regardless of how important it is to success in the sport. It won’t be important to HER success if it makes her quit gymnastics.