WAG Transitioning to Middle School with Gymnastics

[Ali'sMom]

plus it would count for HS credit and against their HS gpa.

I understand counting for HS credit, but I don't understand what you mean about against their GPA?

 

[Midwestmommy]

In our district, the GE classes are really geared toward kids who learn very very quickly. Most of them are way above grade level in certain subjects, not a grade or two. There are other ways than testing to be considered, but generally these kids are testing at 98th or 99th percentile. They aren't just kids who are bright and learn quickly, they kind of seem to "already know" if that makes sense.

I agree with the other poster(s), GE does not necessarily translate into more homework. If your child is one of these kids, I wouldn't hesitate to put them in GE where the pace and work will be geared toward their learning needs. If she is having to put in many many hours to keep up in a given GE class, then it's probably not the right fit. That would become apparent quickly.

On a side note, it's not all rosy for these kids. Many of them tend to be perfectionist, highly self critical, sensitive, and actually a little more at risk of losing their way than kids who are bright, do well in school and tend to be more proud of their accomplishments. I'm not articulating this very well, but the GE programs usually also provide other types of support where these "square pegs" have a safe place. That's an important part of the academic support. You don't want these kids sitting around bored in class, they might turn into rascals as my dad would have said...

 

[wandrewsjr]

your school system really does baffle me.

We really do not have "gifted" programmes in secondary school (11+), the children are "Set" and then work the curriculum to a fuller or lesser extent according to their class ability.

To satisfy my curiosity could someone point me in the direction of what is considered normal year 7 (11-12) work and what is considered G&T, just so I could have some frame of reference.

Ta muchly

(Oh and you still have mental homework loads )

Generally, kids on an "advanced" or "gifted" track will begin taking high school level courses around age 12 or 7th grade. This sets them up to be able to take college level work in high school. To pick one subject, math, advanced kids may finish algebra and geometry in middle school and move on to take calculus/calculus 2/multi variable calculus/probability and statistics in high school. Kids on the "regular" track may get through pre-algebra or maybe algebra 1 in middle school, and move on to do geometry/algebra 2/pre-calculus in high school.

Kids can be on different tracks in different subjects, and would be mixed with their same age/grade level peers in classes that aren't designated as "advanced".

 

[skschlag]

I have one of those true gifted kiddos and one of those really bright kiddos. Kid 1 does awful in school, no matter what. School is tough for him. He doesn't fit in their circle, as a triangle. It is bad. My bright kiddo does great in school. It is easy for him. He cruises.

The emotional support for my gifted kiddo is crucial, more so than any academic support. It is really tough!!!

 

[Midwestmommy]

The GE math cluster middle school 6th graders in our district are using the grade 8 or 9 math books. They aren't in AP classes yet, but will be when they are available, along with other kids (AP isn't only for kids who were in GE)...

 

[Iwannabemargo]

so you don't do Stats in year 7 then ?

My dd is in 2nd set for maths, so better than average but no genius.

She this year has done arithmetic, geometry, trigonometry, statistics, vectors, algebra etc. We teach the whole syllabus, but build on it each year. Also we don't take exams early ( well maybe a year early), so its all geared up to exams at 16, the another set at 18.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

just for interest, I found a site listing the GB year 7 maths curriculum, if anyone is interested

Link Removed

do you have a similar US national curriculum ?

 

[munchkin3]

I have one of those true gifted kiddos and one of those really bright kiddos. Kid 1 does awful in school, no matter what. School is tough for him. He doesn't fit in their circle, as a triangle. It is bad. My bright kiddo does great in school. It is easy for him. He cruises.

The emotional support for my gifted kiddo is crucial, more so than any academic support. It is really tough!!!

I have three totally different types too!!!!
My non schoolie is a great kid.....super helpful, total problem solver, improviser, some call him a genius- just not in school.....another reads books like breathing air....writes, paints....etc.... My little gymmie is the perfectionist A girl who wants to always place top 3......this is the one who worries me the most. She needs to learn balance (no pun intended) and how to relax. I make sure she rides her bike, and has time to chill with a book.
She was offered accelerated math, which would put her 2-3 grade levels ahead by the end of middle school. I asked her what SHE wanted, and she said no. She will stick with advanced math.......

By 10/11th grade, all this stuff evens out. The kids who load up in middle school slow down once they learn how to speak up. The ones who cruise a bit slower, still can take honors and AP classes in high school when they are ready and know what AP means........in the end, what you pick in 6th grade, is NOT going to dictate what happens in 11th or college for that matter........

I also know the feeling with my first child of making the 'right' choices, and securing the precise path for carefully tailored success.... Now with my third, I know she will end up exactly where she belongs, as long as I am there to supports and listen to her- and guide her gently. I don't need to freak out about it.

BTW- In my district, all the special 'gifted' kids who were hand picked in 3rd grade end up in the exact same classes as everyone else who studied hard and got good grades in high school......nobody cares anymore about 'giftedness', they care whether their kids are happy, hard working and successful or unhappy, entitled and taking drugs.

 

[flippinam]

I understand counting for HS credit, but I don't understand what you mean about against their GPA?

I think she is saying that the class will count into her high school GPA, which could negatively impact it if she doesn't do as well in the class. For example, in middle school I was satisfied with 97's and am so grateful that the HS classes I took didn't count as part of my HS GPA (private school rule). Once I got to high school I realized that I needed all 100s to achieve my personal goals and if the grades from middle school had counted, I probably wouldn't have been valedictorian.

 

[thefellowsmom]

On a side note, it's not all rosy for these kids. Many of them tend to be perfectionist, highly self critical, sensitive, and actually a little more at risk of losing their way than kids who are bright, do well in school and tend to be more proud of their accomplishments. I'm not articulating this very well, but the GE programs usually also provide other types of support where these "square pegs" have a safe place. That's an important part of the academic support. You don't want these kids sitting around bored in class, they might turn into rascals as my dad would have said...

Exactly!

When we chose a self-contained program for my dd, the support is the reason we did it. Although she scored off the charts in analytical reasoning and math (it takes her no more than a couple of minutes to absorb and apply advanced math concepts and she sees the world in a way that shocks me sometimes, like she sees all the layers all at once), she had some major issues. She was very quiet and lacked confidence as she was told she was a poor reader and was such a rule follower and quiet that she was mostly ignored by her teachers. Her thinking was so rigid that she could barely transfer something from one context to another. She was over the top specific about things. If you used a different word in the same way or the same word in a different way, she would lose her way. She struggled deeply with the way they teach and test for reading comprehension because of this. Her highly trained teachers worked with her on strategies and mental flexibility. Over the years, she has grown into a confident, independent thinker who now reads at a college level.

I remember discussing it with my husband when we were making our decision that if she was diagnosed with a learning disability we wouldn't hesitate for a second to make sure she had access to every resource available to her, so why should this be any different. I hope that it doesn't look different for her in high school, that she just fits in right along the other highly motivated kids, this would be a blessing that I'm not sure would have been possible without the help of her really amazing program.

I also think that the way she views the world and this trend toward focused specificity has contributed to her success in gymnastics and I also think that gymnastics has contributed to her being able to open up to the world and be more flexible and successful at school. Having to learn to keep a correction and make it again and again, even across multiple events was tough and slowed her down in the beginning, but she has always been super focused on her goals and never waivers from them so had to open up and figure out strategies that work for her.

My other child, although very bright and crazy creative and I think capable of something really amazing even if it isn't conventional, doesn't fit the gifted mold. He is very happy and successful in a mainstream classroom. He also passed the gifted test, but for him we chose a different path because he is a different kid. After spending six years immersed with these kids, you notice that there is something very different about them and it really has nothing to do with academics or grades or test scores.

I totally agree that the kid needs to drive though at a certain point. My dd was set on taking all honors courses and her teacher was adamant that she would be bored and frustrated in regular middle school classes. I was the one trying to talk her out of it, asking her to just choose one or two she wanted, but like everything in her life, she has a plan and who am I to keep her from it. But, it is also my job to keep her sane and balanced, hence the modified hybrid schedule that gives her what I knows she needs in the way of sanity and down time, without compromising her goals in gymnastics or academics.

Oh, and I was one of those kids who turned into a real "rascal" . Let me tell you it wasn't pretty.

 

[Ali'sMom]

On a side note, it's not all rosy for these kids. Many of them tend to be perfectionist, highly self critical, sensitive, and actually a little more at risk of losing their way than kids who are bright, do well in school and tend to be more proud of their accomplishments. I'm not articulating this very well, but the GE programs usually also provide other types of support where these "square pegs" have a safe place. That's an important part of the academic support. You don't want these kids sitting around bored in class, they might turn into rascals as my dad would have said...

This. 100 times.
I have friends who think how easy it must be for a gifted teacher, having a room full of smart kids.
I laughed and said "oh heck no, it's more like a room full of issues..."

 

[munchkin3]

We are lucky to have the regular classes, then advanced, and then the gifted bunch.
My DD has specifically told me she does NOT want to be in the gifted bunch as they tend to take up a lot of the teachers time and patience. She has quite a few labeled gifted kids in her class and she just wants to get her work done quickly and efficiently.

I am pretty sure she will be very successful in advanced classes, and will be able to manage gymnastics. We will re visit at the end of the year and either add a bit, or remove a little.......

 

[l.c.o]

On a side note, it's not all rosy for these kids. Many of them tend to be perfectionist, highly self critical, sensitive, and actually a little more at risk of losing their way than kids who are bright, do well in school and tend to be more proud of their accomplishments. I'm not articulating this very well, but the GE programs usually also provide other types of support where these "square pegs" have a safe place. That's an important part of the academic support. You don't want these kids sitting around bored in class, they might turn into rascals as my dad would have said...

THIS. I was blessed to be in a self-contained G&T program in elementary school, and then placed in a self-contained G&T school for middle school. Those were the best years. We were all a little odd but we ALL were, and that was amazing.

High school was awful, as I chose to try a "specialty" program instead of a G&T program. I was bored senseless and skipped school constantly. To put it in perspective, I literally missed some 2/3 of my classes for my chemistry class one semester. Studied a couple of hours the weekend before the final and carried the curve for the whole class. It's the only reason I passed, as I didn't do a lick of other coursework. I just didn't care. I really floundered in high school, and college, too. I changed my major some dozen times, and really struggled to focus when doing any "regular" busywork.

So, keeping kids dialed in and challenged really is important throughout their education. It can seriously be tough.

Now I am working on my teaching certificate in special ed. We're taught to watch for bright students pulling Cs and below - those are actually most likely to be your gifted students in a traditional program. They have little incentive to try, and often truly think their time is better spent thinking or working on something else. They aren't grades-motivated. They're usually knowledge-motivated, and that's two entirely different things. Took me YEARS to understand that. Managed mostly straight As in my college program doing all of the required coursework, but learned much less than I just tried to understand the marterial.

 

[skschlag]

Now I am working on my teaching certificate in special ed. We're taught to watch for bright students pulling Cs and below - those are actually most likely to be your gifted students in a traditional program. They have little incentive to try, and often truly think their time is better spent thinking or working on something else. They aren't grades-motivated. They're usually knowledge-motivated, and that's two entirely different things. Took me YEARS to understand that. Managed mostly straight As in my college program doing all of the required coursework, but learned much less than I just tried to understand the marterial.

This times 10. My "gifted" sophomore just failed 2 classes. sigh. college algebra and biotechnology (we are still waiting on AP lit and health). Of course, he also has an IEP, so he has a gifted plan and an IEP, so no one has a clue what to do with him. Hopefully he can pull it together next year....

 

[l.c.o]

This times 10. My "gifted" sophomore just failed 2 classes. sigh. college algebra and biotechnology (we are still waiting on AP lit and health). Of course, he also has an IEP, so he has a gifted plan and an IEP, so no one has a clue what to do with him. Hopefully he can pull it together next year....

Oh man, I really hope that they find the right combination of things for him... Have you considered having him see a counselor? Even a guidance counselor at school? It may help him understand himself better. You don't need to answer, just thought I'd mention. Lets just say he'd be in good company.

 

[skschlag]

Oh man, I really hope that they find the right combination of things for him... Have you considered having him see a counselor? Even a guidance counselor at school? It may help him understand himself better. You don't need to answer, just thought I'd mention. Lets just say he'd be in good company.

He has a counselor, psychiatrist, sped teacher, school counselor, social worker, OT, etc. I am also a sped teacher so we are finding all the resources we can at this point. Something will work we have decided to face facts that he might be on the 5 year HS plan

 

[looly]

My experience was a little different because my sport/hobby didn't kick up hours until I was a little older - I was 13 before I was going straight from school to dance, then on to theater rehearsals until 10pm or later every night, and did that all 8th - 12th grade. I also suffer from severe ADD and I think the only way I was able to graduate high school (top 5 of my class at that) was that I was so busy I had to use every minute of my time. My experience was that honors/gifted classes aren't any more time consuming if they are really the right level for you, and often teachers are more willing to be accommodating in those classes - I had so many teachers agree that as long as I could show that I was keeping up with the concepts and able to apply them on the tests/projects, I could turn in homework a week late if I had a show going into production or something that just made it impossible to fit the time in. Homework for other classes got done during lunch, and I used warm ups to think through and plan projects in my head. The handful of "regular" classes I had to take were horrible - much more mindless homework, and far less flexibility because the teachers had to deal with many unmotivated students who couldn't keep up without all the repetition - and inevitably I would get behind on what was busywork for me and got my lowest grades in those classes.

DD and I have started talking about middle school and she's so excited to have fast-track options available because she feels like school this year has been a waste of her time, simply because she drew teachers that weren't interested in challenging their students and just taught to the test. I'm worried about keeping her mentally "in the game" for her last year of elementary and hope middle school can be more rewarding.

 

[munchkin3]

Skschlag-

I feel your pain! Mine is failing geometry, but passed with flying colors the AutoCad certification test in his honors architecture class......
He would be doing MUCH better in all his classes had he stayed in gymnastics......he has too much time on his hands.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Exactly!

When we chose a self-contained program for my dd, the support is the reason we did it. Although she scored off the charts in analytical reasoning and math (it takes her no more than a couple of minutes to absorb and apply advanced math concepts and she sees the world in a way that shocks me sometimes, like she sees all the layers all at once), she had some major issues. She was very quiet and lacked confidence as she was told she was a poor reader and was such a rule follower and quiet that she was mostly ignored by her teachers. Her thinking was so rigid that she could barely transfer something from one context to another. She was over the top specific about things. If you used a different word in the same way or the same word in a different way, she would lose her way. She struggled deeply with the way they teach and test for reading comprehension because of this. Her highly trained teachers worked with her on strategies and mental flexibility. Over the years, she has grown into a confident, independent thinker who now reads at a college level.

LOL! This really makes me laugh! Kipper is very literal also. I will never forget working on spelling words and trying to get her to spell "WHO" correctly. It didn't follow the rules. I was ready to pull my hair out! I am sure her teacher felt the same way. I know this is why Kipper has done so well in the GT program. Just like you describe, it is the way they think and process information that is so different. I think it helps to think of honors/advanced/gifted courses as "different" as much as they are accelerated.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

So much wisdom has already been shared, just wanted to add that it can definitely be done BUT keep an eye on your kid. Only you know her, her personality and what she is capable of, and even so, keep a close eye on things.

My gymmie is 11 (almost 12) and just finished up her L7 season and is almost done with 6th grade where she is taking some double accelerated classes and some "normal" classes. My older Dd (14, finishing up 8th grade) is a dancer who spends even MORE time at the studio than my gymmie is at the gym and she has had all double accelerated classes all of MS. She did several HS classes last year and even more this year, right on track to begin her college classes her JR year of HS.
They are two vastly different kids. Dancer is Type A, very self critical and a perfectionist. She can DO all her classes and homework, but I'm not going to pretend it was an easy three years for her juggling how well she wanted to do in school with how well she wanted to do in dance and the hours spent at the studio. She is often up until midnight doing homework and gets up at 6-6:30. Latter part of 6th grade was very tough for her and she had a bit of a meltdown (stuff going on at dance affecting everything). I was lucky to have a close friend alert me to what was going on, at home it wasn't noticeable but things were going downhill in school (my friends dd is close to my Dd). After a rough semester with lots of soul searching and anguish we changed studios (as agonizing as changing gyms if not more as she had been there since she was 3) and things went back to normal after that. But it was a ROUGH semester with grades going down and lots of self esteem issues!!!

All that to say that you MUST watch for signs of stress. DD has said afterwards that she was feeling completely stressed out and just didn't know how to handle it. She has a better handle on it now, but it's still stressful for her.

Gymmie DD is a different type, she's more easygoing and for her, this has been pretty easy. She needs more sleep than Dd1 and luckily, her homework load hasn't been nearly as high. She gets most of her work even in the advanced classes done at school, she very rarely has to spend time doing homework at home. She has one evening off in the middle of the week and also two days/wk where she has to stay at gym for a couple of hours after practice while I finish up work so those have been our go-to homework times. We almost never get home before 9-9:30pm. She hasn't had much "project based" homework whereas her sister who has ALL accelerated classes had much more of that.

If it was my DD, as tempted as I would be to add the GT history classes, I think I would skip it for now since you already know the homework load is going to be difficult. In fact, my dancer DD opted to NOT take AP history freshman year in HS simply because she knew the same thing, the workload would be too much outside school. She loves history and could easily do the advanced class but she is being smart and looking at the reality of her day to day. I always push for taking as advanced classes as you can, but in this case I understand her and a good friend (who is a HS teacher and VERY in tune with needs and college prep) agree that this is a good choice for her and won't impact her negatively down the line.

For both my girls, "down time" has been what has come last. They have very little time to relax and just BE. They play on their phones a bit before bed etc, but we are on the go a LOT. Weekends sometimes offer more chances to relax but even then we have practices and stuff that needs to be done, and during comp season obviously we travel a lot. Rare are the times when my kids can actually have a chance to hang out with non dance/gym friends or just chill..!

Best of luck!!!!