WAG Understanding the US streams

[fuzi]

Is there a policy re: kids who've been competing modified FIG overseas and move back to the states? DD is working a lot of crazy new skills, a big jump up from L6, her last USAG level. It would be a shame for her to compete L7, maybe even 8, when we get back.

Rules and Policies (pg 23):

"Foreign athletes (US Citizens residing in a foreign country or non-US Citizens): Foreign athletes who have competitive experience outside the US and now reside in the US are eligible to petition by submitting a formal written request to the Regional Jr. Olympic Committee Chairman for entry into the Jr. Olympic Program at Level 8 or above or the State Administrative Committee Chairman for Level 7 or below. The petition must be accompanied by a video that demonstrates the skill level for which she is submitting the petition and proof of residency outside the US."

 

[Smartiegirl]

Are they trying to be more similar to USAIGC, which I believe has 6 levels? I know they start with copper, but I believe an IGC Gold would be a little more advanced than an Xcel Gold...I don't know much about IGC but it's fairly popular in Region 6 I think..just a theory!

My daughter competes USAIGC Gold in region 7. It is exactly like JO level 8. The only difference is the number of training hours. My dd does 14 hours a week, typical level 8 JO is 18-20. Same skill fewer hours so the stay the same level for more than 1 year.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

My daughter competes USAIGC Gold in region 7. It is exactly like JO level 8. The only difference is the number of training hours. My dd does 14 hours a week, typical level 8 JO is 18-20. Same skill fewer hours so the stay the same level for more than 1 year.

Yes, then IGC Gold is definitely is higher level than Xcel Gold. Puma Jr did Xcel Gold between L3 and L4, though it does have some L5/6 skills involved. Certainly not L8!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

My daughter competes USAIGC Gold in region 7. It is exactly like JO level 8. The only difference is the number of training hours. My dd does 14 hours a week, typical level 8 JO is 18-20. Same skill fewer hours so the stay the same level for more than 1 year.

And hours vary widely, our girls do IGC and JO, our girls train 12 hours.

And we have run into the but your gym trains more because it's JO. At which point it's the person assuming we train more at JO because their gym does.

 

[Seeker]

Re: the talk of people skirting level qualification rules - I really do not think that happens in my area - that stuff is taken very seriously, and always has been for as long as my DD has been in this sport (and she's been at multiple gyms). I have personally never heard of any gymnast just jumping in at a level w/o meeting qualification scores at prior levels for their systems. And if someone can't get the qualification score for a state meet, etc., they stay home - happens all the time. That really would be awful if people weren't checking that stuff - I can't imagine that they aren't in my state just cause of how by the book all the area gyms seem to be though.

Agree. As a Meet Director of a large meet, I can assure you we take this VERY seriously. Every gymnast is validated that she has a current USAG membership and that the USAG level matches the meet registration. If we find any issues during the first validation, gyms are notified of the errors. Every coach is validated twice -- at the time of entry and a week prior to the meet (just in case a credential may be pulled for some reason -- it happens). Second pass checking both gymnasts and coaches is done prior to meet to ensure compliance. If someone fails or a new/unregistered coach comes to the meet, they must prove compliance on-site prior to their session.

 

[chalkbowl]

Agree. As a Meet Director of a large meet, I can assure you we take this VERY seriously. Every gymnast is validated that she has a current USAG membership and that the USAG level matches the meet registration. If we find any issues during the first validation, gyms are notified of the errors. Every coach is validated twice -- at the time of entry and a week prior to the meet (just in case a credential may be pulled for some reason -- it happens). Second pass checking both gymnasts and coaches is done prior to meet to ensure compliance. If someone fails or a new/unregistered coach comes to the meet, they must prove compliance on-site prior to their session.

Yes, but coaches are typically the ones who put in an athlete's level on the USAG website and then they can enter said athlete in to a meet at whatever level they please. Meet Directors don't look up past meet scores to determine if an athlete previously met a mobility score. Who is even in charge of that? The State Chair?

 

[bogwoppit]

Yes, but coaches are typically the ones who put in an athlete's level on the USAG website and then they can enter said athlete in to a meet at whatever level they please. Meet Directors don't look up past meet scores to determine if an athlete previously met a mobility score. Who is even in charge of that? The State Chair?

I know this has happened, and I could even name names. It may not happen a lot, but it definitely happens and parents at the gym often know it has happened and just stay silent.

 

[Seeker]

Yes, but coaches are typically the ones who put in an athlete's level on the USAG website and then they can enter said athlete in to a meet at whatever level they please. Meet Directors don't look up past meet scores to determine if an athlete previously met a mobility score. Who is even in charge of that? The State Chair?

Presumably, yes but I honestly don't know how that part is handled. Obviously every meet will do things slightly differently, but we did ask for validation if the level entered was different than their USAG registration. Part of the reason for that was so that we were sure they were entered into the proper level in our meet. It prevents a lot of issues down the line to check first rather than have to scramble later on and try to squeeze someone into a session. Now that USAG is moving towards meet entry via the USAG site, much of this will be alleviated on the front end at least.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

How is this any different then an in house meet with a hand picked judge wink wink.

I wonder how many kids don't score out at any house meet?

This year will be my first time around with an intentional score out but I believe the plan is to have the kids do one actual sanctioned meet. I don't think our coaches want any hint of not being above board.

 

[raenndrops]

How is this any different then an in house meet with a hand picked judge wink wink.

I wonder how many kids don't score out at any house meet?

This year will be my first time around with an intentional score out but I believe the plan is to have the kids do one actual sanctioned meet. I don't think our coaches want any hint of not being above board.

TECHNICALLY, the in-house meets are SUPPOSED to be sanctioned too… just smaller and less formal (We did that for a qualification meet once… had to have "official results" though, so it we had it sanctioned… 5 gymnasts, 30 minutes of the judge's time Life was good.).

 

[rocky]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

Again gym dependent/ Our gym has decided to score out L5 and compete L6. But this is the first year and I am sure it is based on the "new" levels and the coaches comfort with them.

Others do L4 and score out 5 & 6 and go to 7, Some go L5 to L7.

As long as required score outs are dealt with it really is up to the gym.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

This is another "really depends on the gym" thing...it is definitely common in a lot of areas. Some gyms even go L4 to L7 (one meet at L5 to score out). Our gym does compete most kids L5, 6 and 7 (though I noticed a couple who did not do L6) but many gyms have a policy of not doing all three (L5/6/7)...sorry for a crazy answer, but there really are a lot of approaches and theories on this subject.

 

[Seeker]

Our gym doesn't compete L6 at all.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

How is this any different then an in house meet with a hand picked judge wink wink.

I wonder how many kids don't score out at any house meet?

This year will be my first time around with an intentional score out but I believe the plan is to have the kids do one actual sanctioned meet. I don't think our coaches want any hint of not being above board.

Slightly OT but gymnastics vloggers got me wondering

What is the equipment requirement for a sanctioned competition so that a gymnast is eligible to score out? The particular gymnasts vaulted to mats over a pit , is this technically allowed? At the end of the day I don't think it matters, but it had me curious as to how far equipment modifications go within JO/Xcel.

 

[ascarter1]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

Depends on the gym. My dd scored out of lv 4 and lv 5 at one meet. Moved from lv 3 to lv 6. I don't think that is extremely common though.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

My DDs current gym likes to take girls and score them out of four and five and drop them straight into their first full season as L7s. Obviously it's quite unconventional, but they're also obviously flexible, or they never would've taken my DD (and I didn't think they would, actually). It's an interesting plan, and I'm assuming they will have to choose their future team carefully. They will get the commitment from parents out of the way fast though- everyone on team trains the same hours from the start through L10. That's a commitment for sure; you definitely know who's all in.

 

[3rd_time_around]

How does a score prove what a gymnast can do and do safely? Please explain.

It is not the score, its doing the skills well that prove it. Really do you honestly think coaches would rushing to have a Level 4 skill kid chuck L7 skills at a meet just to be there. And seriously with a minimum score to advance of 31 it really doesn't demonstrate competence across events. You have a stellar vaulter not so stellar elsewhere and boom they advance. Doesn't mean it is a wise decision.

So glad our gym doesn't pick a score to hang their hat on. If you can do the skills safely and competently your score will be OK and up you go. You get a 38-39 but cant do the next level skills oh well no advancing for you.

Again what stick in my craw is the L8 competing L6 because there is no forced move up.

It's not a gym mandated score, is a USA Gymnastics mandated mobility score. Just because they can do the skills well means nothing until they have achieved the mobility score at a sanctioned event. Not my idea, not any gym's rules, it's straight from the governing body of USA Gymnastics.

And I know first hand of a gymnast who was an old level 4, and the coach asked her to do a back handspring on the beam, so she did. She was skipped to level 7 somehow. I asked her parent how it was possible that she went from 4 to 7 without scoring out. She said "I don't know, but she did. Her coach did it somehow." So yes, there are coaches who have a level 4 skill kid that they do want to chuck L7 skills at a meet just to be there. Above child was not from my state, all that happened before arriving there.

Are you saying that your gym does not have girls follow the rules and just puts them wherever they feel they can compete? That is some serious violations going on. You don't have a choice, you have to score out. With the new meet reservation system, these types of things will begin to be caught, so gyms will need to start following the rules and procedures.

As for girls competing 6 when you think they should be Lvl 8, that is a whole other issue. If gymnasts are mandated to move up because of scores, but they develop fear issues or lose a skill or whatever, and can not safely perform at the next level but have no choice, think of the legal ramifications if an injury occurs! That's why there's no forced move up. Sandbagging is highly discouraged, but it happens and when it does it is only hurting the gymnast who will be too old to make it to level 10 in time for a chance at a scholarship.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Is there a policy re: kids who've been competing modified FIG overseas and move back to the states? DD is working a lot of crazy new skills, a big jump up from L6, her last USAG level. It would be a shame for her to compete L7, maybe even 8, when we get back.

There's a mobility chart, I'm sure any coaches in the US would have it. But yes, there is a required score needed before moving up.
But there are also exceptions and that's where the petitions come in. So whoever is coaching her when she returns will take care of that and her, I'm sure.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I noticed it says you can skip level 6. Do many gymnasts skip level 6? Or is this quite rare?

Yes, it happens a lot. I know several at my dd's gym who had the skills so they were able to skip it. And did very, very well at level 7.