WAG Understanding the US streams

[3rd_time_around]

Slightly OT but gymnastics vloggers got me wondering

What is the equipment requirement for a sanctioned competition so that a gymnast is eligible to score out? The particular gymnasts vaulted to mats over a pit , is this technically allowed? At the end of the day I don't think it matters, but it had me curious as to how far equipment modifications go within JO/Xcel.

It was not specifically addressed before, but now it has been. [emoji4] That won't be happening anymore.

 

[ascarter1]

My DDs current gym likes to take girls and score them out of four and five and drop them straight into their first full season as L7s. Obviously it's quite unconventional, but they're also obviously flexible, or they never would've taken my DD (and I didn't think they would, actually). It's an interesting plan, and I'm assuming they will have to choose their future team carefully. They will get the commitment from parents out of the way fast though- everyone on team trains the same hours from the start through L10. That's a commitment for sure; you definitely know who's all in.

It works! It's tough but dd did this 2 seasons ago! She is now training for level 8!

Best of luck!

 

[MILgymFAM]

It works! It's tough but dd did this 2 seasons ago! She is now training for level 8!

Best of luck!

Congrats to your DD! The girls at my DDs gym seem to be thriving as well. That's not my DDs path (she'd already done bronze, gold, and 6 over two years at other gyms).. She doesn't fit their mold, but they've made a place for her just the same. More importantly, they've made her feel as welcome as everyone else. It's pretty great.

 

[Sneezyone]

Rules and Policies (pg 23):

"Foreign athletes (US Citizens residing in a foreign country or non-US Citizens): Foreign athletes who have competitive experience outside the US and now reside in the US are eligible to petition by submitting a formal written request to the Regional Jr. Olympic Committee Chairman for entry into the Jr. Olympic Program at Level 8 or above or the State Administrative Committee Chairman for Level 7 or below. The petition must be accompanied by a video that demonstrates the skill level for which she is submitting the petition and proof of residency outside the US."

Oh thank you!! I swear I looked for this before but couldn't find anything! PHEW!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Are you saying that your gym does not have girls follow the rules and just puts them wherever they feel they can compete? That is some serious violations going on.
.

I am not sure how you came away with the gym I am at not following the rules. Didn't say anything about my gym except they actually follow the rules.

Gym we attend is a stickler for following the rules. Appropriately levels the kids. And will not let them move up unless they can do the skills needed for the level, regardless of their scores.

What I asked was how do scores prove someone is ready to move up? All meeting the score for mobility means is you can move. Not that you must move. Not that you should move. All it means is you have met the minimum for the skills for the level you are scored at. It in no way measures whether you are prepared and ready for the next level skills. That is the coaches job.

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

And as long as their are rules, there will be people trying to get around them.

 

[raenndrops]

What I asked was how do scores prove someone is ready to move up? All meeting the score for mobility means is you can move. Not that you must move. Not that you should move. All it means is you have met the minimum for the skills for the level you are scored at. It in no way measures whether you are prepared and ready for the next level skills. That is the coaches job.

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

But in a score out meet, the whole point is to get the gymnast thru the level… meaning the coach must think she IS ready for the next level.

Most of the time, if a coach isn't doing proper score outs / petitions, most likely, the gymnast will be able to minimally do the level placed in (at least)… even if they are having the gymnast "chuck" skills (which I am not a fan of). I also think that older gymnasts (12+ preferably, but definitely 14+), especially, should be able to enter into Level 6 if they can do the minimum required routines. I also think the petition process should be easier in these cases…
A note from the coach to the State saying (s)he wants to place the gymnast in Level 6 due to her age and having at least the minimum skills for the level AND a simple video of:
1- A FHS or other acceptable vault
2- gymnast performing skills that meet the SR on Bars (not even necessarily a full routine… just horizontal cast, bar change, 360º clear circling skill and an A Dismount)
3- gymnast performing skills that meet the SR on Beam (just full turn, single acro skill from Group 5, 6, or 7, split leap or jump, A Dismount, and 1 B skill)
4- gymnast performing skills that meet SR on Floor (acro series with 3 connected flight elements, a salto or aerial, a leap series, a full turn, and 1 B skill if not included already).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But in a score out meet, the whole point is to get the gymnast thru the level… meaning the coach must think she IS ready for the next level.

Most of the time, if a coach isn't doing proper score outs / petitions, most likely, the gymnast will be able to minimally do the level placed in (at least)… even if they are having the gymnast "chuck" skills (which I am not a fan of). I also think that older gymnasts (12+ preferably, but definitely 14+), especially, should be able to enter into Level 6 if they can do the minimum required routines. I also think the petition process should be easier in these cases…
A note from the coach to the State saying (s)he wants to place the gymnast in Level 6 due to her age and having at least the minimum skills for the level AND a simple video of:
1- A FHS or other acceptable vault
2- gymnast performing skills that meet the SR on Bars (not even necessarily a full routine… just horizontal cast, bar change, 360º clear circling skill and an A Dismount)
3- gymnast performing skills that meet the SR on Beam (just full turn, single acro skill from Group 5, 6, or 7, split leap or jump, A Dismount, and 1 B skill)
4- gymnast performing skills that meet SR on Floor (acro series with 3 connected flight elements, a salto or aerial, a leap series, a full turn, and 1 B skill if not included already).

You are preaching to the choir. Its not just about score. Scores are one parameter, just one, to use. A minimum.

I am a skill based person. Again, if you can prove you can competently do the skills for the level, you should be able to do the level. But that would cut revenue.

And no a scoreout doesn't necessarily mean the coach thinks they are ready for the next the level. In theory it should. In practice that is no always so.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I am not sure how you came away with the gym I am at not following the rules. Didn't say anything about my gym except they actually follow the rules.

Because you said this: "So glad our gym doesn't pick a score to hang their hat on. If you can do the skills safely and competently your score will be OK and up you go. You get a 38-39 but cant do the next level skills oh well no advancing for you. "

 

[scanlri]

I will try to explain what I know. Anyone please correct me if I'm off....

Most gyms start with recreational classes and around age 5 or 6 gyms start identifying which kids have potential....1st choice for parents is here.....it usually start with JO because the want younger kids. Some gyms only offer JO or Xcel, or one or the other.

JO is the more competitive track. TOPS is not offered in all gyms is is NOT necessary to become elite. So you can have a child that is in JO at 6 years old, competes quickly through the compulsory levels and makes it to L10 without any other 'program'. The first mandatory compulsory level is L4 (I think, unless it's the new L3). Around L9/10, there are more choices to be made depending on age. For very young L10s (age 10-13) they might consider Hopes qualification which is a precursor to Elite with slightly lower qualifying requirements. Elite would be the next step which is the last and hardest qualifier and theoretically can begin at age 11 for Junior Elite and then 15 for seniors, but you don't need to qualify Hopes first.......you can go straight to Jr. Elite. From this point on there is a lot of politics on how to be 'seen' and be picked for superhuman status.

TOPS Is just a side program that helps in creating young elite athletes. It is a tough conditioning program which many coaches incorporate in compulsory athletes. It is not meant for the masses but many gyms use it for their own TOPS program and charge additional money for. I would say the quality of TOPS program totally depends on the gym and the better the TOPS, the more selective they are. Our TOPS is a waste of time as pretty much anyone can join.....we get the same stuff with the regular hours.

For most successful JO athletes who make it to L10 by the time they are in high school, college gymnastics would be the next step. The college L10 track is VERY different from the Elite track with the he most obvious difference of AGE. Ie. We have about 3 gymnasts out of 20 who are outliers 9-10 years old training L8/9. This is not the norm and I assume that these 3 girls are being eyed to go elite at some point.

Remember, this is the US and capitalism is king.....there are a lot of ways to make money off of gymnastics and a lot of parents willing to pay for all kinds of things. What gyms sell is the dream......what you NEED is compulsory levels, optional levels,then Jr./Sr. Elite. ( of course we bought package A and my DD WILL be making the national team soon) lol! For college you need to be either an event specialist, or a strong L10.

Xcel is another branch which is more recreational and many athletes here are a bit older or don't want the time commitment. It tops out around a L7/8 which I THINK is platinum/diamond. You can go from JO to Xcel easily but XCEL to JO has some rules. I am not sure how it works, but I believe there is a way to get from platinum to L6/7 JO.....I will find out.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Because you said this: "So glad our gym doesn't pick a score to hang their hat on. If you can do the skills safely and competently your score will be OK and up you go. You get a 38-39 but cant do the next level skills oh well no advancing for you. "

As in they, they are skill based. See if you read what I typed...... Even if our kids scored a 38 (which playing by the rules would mean they could move), if the coaches don't feel their skills are ready for the next level, they don't go.

That doesn't mean they follow don't follow USAG rules. Just because you meet minimum score to move doesn't mean you are ready to actually do the next level skills.