WAG upgrading L5 to L8-how hard is it?

[Fliptwisttumble]

I think getting to bare bones L8 would be attainable, but I think it would be much harder to reach the high L8 stuff that includes C skills and Yurchenko vaults in that short period of time.

This is true. DD competed a FHS vault as an 8..... And compared to the skills listed, she did the following (in bold in the quote below)

So L5 compared to an average L8 routines would be:

FX:
RO BH BT : RO BH BL/ FULL TWIST. DD did a 1.5 twist
FH FH, running FT : FH FL FT. DD did FHS FLO and a second line of FT RO BHS layout 1/2

BB:
BH BWO BWO Series : BH Series. BHS BHS. Also standing BT
Handstand Dismount Front tuck dismount : RO BT Dismount
Split Leap : 180 degree Split Leap switch split split leap combo

UB:
Kip, Cast, Front Hip Circle, Squat On, Kip, Baby Giant, Tap Swing
:
Kip, half pirouette, kip cast handstand, toe on to handstand, free hip to handstand, squat on, giant giant, flyaway

VT:
FH : Yuri or Tsuk FHS vault. Tsuk not ready. There were plenty of others in this situation as well.

She'll do L9 this year. With a yurchenko, one bar change with flight, full start with bonus on beam, and full start on floor. BUT, here girls can skip the levels, so she competed 5, 7 then 8.

 

[Granny Smith]

Sometimes simple is better, but when you get to States and Regionals, the C skills will separate the girls. Plus the transition from 8 to 9 with girls who are already performing C skills will be much easier. I, personally, do not get the need to rush from 5 to 8 to just perform minimum skill routines and then you end up repeating 8 when you can just go through the levels without skipping and end up being in the same spot. Of course, I guess I get my mind set because my dd was at a gym where you basically needed to have 10.0 SV routines on all events to do that level. Now I know 8 and down all started from 10, but you simply were not going to 9 without 10.0 SVs. So, you would be repeating. If your dd is a superstar and is going through and can skip levels and still be successful, great. BUT, why the rush to go through levels than other to be able to say you are a certain level if you can not have success. I do judge success by placements and once you get to L8, making Regionals and then beyond in the higher levels. To think that these girls do not care if they place in last or first is ridiculous. All girls want success. It builds confidence and that confidence helps then to move on to bigger and better skills and levels.

 

[wallinbl]

I, personally, do not get the need to rush from 5 to 8 to just perform minimum skill routines and then you end up repeating 8 when you can just go through the levels without skipping and end up being in the same spot.

I wasn't under the impression we were discussing girls pushing ahead of themselves in order to get stuck. I assumed we were talking about girls that went from 5 to 8 because they were ready to do so.

 

[Granny Smith]

I wasn't under the impression we were discussing girls pushing ahead of themselves in order to get stuck. I assumed we were talking about girls that went from 5 to 8 because they were ready to do so.

Well, I guess that is the grey area (ready to do so). If you are moving up to 8 and all you are is the bare minimum of the level, was it worth the push, if the alternative was to compete all the levels and build up to 8 without skipping?

It is a question that everyone has to ask themselves that are faced with this dilemma. It's not an easy question and there is no blanket answer. For some it is worth because they will soar, for others it will be a disaster. Happy to say I am beyond this point.

 

[Seeker]

hmm, that sounds pretty realistic and logical!

So L5 compared to an average L8 routines would be:

FX:
RO BH BT : RO BH BL/ FULL TWIST
FH FH, running FT : FH FL FT

BB:
BH : BH Series
Handstand Dismount : RO BT Dismount
Split Leap : 180 degree Split Leap

UB:
Kip, Cast, Front Hip Circle, Squat On, Kip, Baby Giant, Tap Swing
:
Kip, half pirouette, kip cast handstand, toe on to handstand, free hip to handstand, squat on, giant giant, flyaway

VT:
FH : Yuri or Tsuk

Am I right with this?
Sounds like the hardest thing would be bars?

I don't know, but if your RO BH BT is really good, going to Layout ususally comes quickly, doesn't it? Same with Layout to full...

I mean, if you have a good L5 gymnast, with the strength and flexibility of a L8- could it be done in 2 years?

Of course...anything "can" be done, but what is the motivating factor? What's the rush?

My daughter has basically done this...she competed old L5/L6 in one season (2012-13), L7 this past season (2013-14) and is on track to compete L8 in the fall (starts Oct/Nov here). She has naturally good form, always has since she started training and has very good flexibility. Strength has come over time. Competition experience and success along the way are meaningful too though, so that is something to consider. Because she rushed thru the compulsories, that meant that there was very little focus (read that as nearly none) on the routines and in compulsory, that is what matters if you want to win anything. She easily scored out of each level, but certainly didn't win everything in sight because she didn't have the numbers in for routine practice. I think that she did the L6 floor routine maybe 5 times before she competed it and somehow was able to win that event at one of her L6 meets. She won bars at a few meets as well, but never was AA champion. Now that she is training L8/L9 skills, the progress is slower, but she can do them. She's got all the skills needed for L8 individually...working on connecting things on bars now, series on beam is nearly there, but that in itself is a lot to do before being competition ready. The Yurchenko came easily to her...that vault is much easier for her than the FHS. Once she started training them, it seemed to come together pretty quickly. I have seen her land one on a mat in the pit (no one has moved it to the floor yet).

It just depends on circumstances, strengths, age and maturity of gymnast, injuries, etc. It is a lot of work and a lot of skills to learn in a short time, but it is possible. I would like for my DD to slow it down now...there is no rush in my mind and she needs to get good and solid on these skills now before she builds on them again. But I am not the coach, so we'll just see what happens!

 

[proudmomof3]

I wasn't under the impression we were discussing girls pushing ahead of themselves in order to get stuck. I assumed we were talking about girls that went from 5 to 8 because they were ready to do so.

I was actually asking if it is really "easier" to get from good L5 skills to L7/low L8 skills than from scratch to L5, because you know all the movements, have the strength etc...

 

[gracyomalley]

I will add that the strength to do L5 versus L8 is very different, and the skills involve alot more "scary" tumbling for some girls. DD has friends who were reasonably successful, even often placing well at states (old gyms standards to move up were about 34+ and basic routines at next level) as old 5s and old 6s but struggled with L7 and are slow to gain L8 skills due to strength and form...

Again, alot really comes down to uptraining, basics and "what L8 means". In our region you can get to regionals with basic L8 routines - all of DD old team did - but then you get blown away. Presently DD is having a crisis of conscience as she realizes that much of what she was taught (mental) at old gym is different at many gyms - and although she is physically capable of doing "mid-range" L8 routines by January (BHS_BHS and BT on beam, Yurchenko tuck or pike, etc...) she may not mentally be able to get there....on the other hand her friend who competed L8 last year at old gym is breezing into L9 skills at new as she has a fire lit under her to push toward excellence after seeing that her well performed basic routines didn't "cut the mustard" at regionals....

I don't think it takes much mental fortitude for the younger kiddos to breeze through to L7....they just go to gym, work hard then enjoy competing...then puberty hits.....Of course, I guess I am looking at the subset that get out of rec/L3.....if you take all kids who walk into a gym I suppose getting to L5 is harder!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I have kids on my team with basic 10 start values and 10 start values with C's, at state and regionals I say zero influence in the scoring one way or the other, it came down to performance. My highest scoring level 8 on bars was a layout dismount, beating all three of my double backs (all of which were a within .2 tenths of each other).

 

[htimcj]

I also think that the bare bones routines we were seeing last year at l7 and l8 were because no one really knew what to expect. My gym seems to push along to L7 pretty rapidly with hardly any repeating. But then pretty much everyone repeats L7 with the first year being basic l7 and the second year almost being basic l8 routines. I think philosophy here is that the transition to L9 is HARD! Let's slow it down a bit at L7/8 and start training skill now to make the transition to L9 a bit less daunting. We have had very few kids repeat L8 or even L9 because of lack of skill. Injuries, on the other hand, have sidelined more of our L9 girls than anything else.

 

[katlinchen]

very interesting topic!

could anybody tell me what basic L8, "mid-range" L8 and high L8 routines would be?

 

[cftmoonlight]

If the gymnast is a strong level 5 and is mentally stable, the jump from 5 to 7 is very simple, therefore allowing plenty of time to "get ahead" on the level 8 skills. I have 3 level 5s from last season(Dec-Apr) who will try to compete as 8s in January. They all have all of their 7 skills at this point and competition season starts in Dec. We are talking about strong level 5s, all scoring high 37's and 38's consistently, and they are working on the basic level 8 skills. Tuck/pike tsuk, pirouettes, back walkover bhs, roundoff dismounts, full twist and front tuck front tuck. I would expect they will need to do level 8 twice to be ready for 9, but its time for a challenge for them that 7 just won't provide.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

very interesting topic!

could anybody tell me what basic L8, "mid-range" L8 and high L8 routines would be?

Basic.... Literally meeting the minimums with nothing extra. So 4 As and 4 Bs plus any so equal requirements. High routines would have the optional C move in each event plus potentially more allowable Cs in dance moves, etc.

The middle, well it's just that. Somewhere in between.

Eg. DD competed a 1.5 twist in floor in L8 plus C leaps, whereas most don't. She competed BHS BHS series plus back tuck, switch split to split leap in beam. Both I consider "high" 8. BUT, her bars just met the minimum, so basic, and her vault was subpar.

 

[SignHere]

From rec, my DD did 1 yr preteam, 1 yr old L 4. , 1 yr old L 5. Scored out of L6. Then 1 yr L7 . She will be repeating L 7 but doing it with the " harder"
options ( basic L8 routines) , which will hopefully put her in position to move up to L8 with competitive routines next season. So, yeah, 2 years to l8.

 

[wallinbl]

I was actually asking if it is really "easier" to get from good L5 skills to L7/low L8 skills than from scratch to L5, because you know all the movements, have the strength etc...

I think what may skew a lot of the perspective is that many girls start in "mommy and me" classes when they're really young, so it seems like 5 years of gymnastics to get from "scratch" to L5, but you'd probably need to compare an 11 year old walking in getting to L5 for a fair comparison. Posts around here in other threads indicate that an "older" girl can go from scratch to L4 (old L5) fairly quickly.

 

[cbifoja]

DD did a mommy & me class around 2 or 3, can't remember which anymore. She counts that as her "start" time for gymnastics. I enrolled her in an actual rec class around 4 and a half or 5 years old and I count that as her start time.

I think my DD falls under the L5 to L8 in a couple of years of time in the way that I would count time. She did old L5 and scored out of old L6 as an 8YO, then new L6/L7 (half of a season at each) as a 9YO, and may compete L8 as a 10 YO. She has her skills to do L8 but might compete L7 for this upcoming season as a confidence booster/form clean up time. But if we are just talking skills, she has the L8 set ready to go.

Her base training leading up to that was about 3 years (around a year at rec/team development track, one year on pre-team, and one year of old L3). That was true gymnastics training and not mommmy and me type training.

She also did what feels like reasonable hours, not excessive at all. One hour a week rec, three hours development, four hours pre-team, six hours old L3, 9 hours old L5, 16 hours new L6/L7, and will train 20 hours L8/L9. So she isn't in one of those hyper-intense, high-hours programs.

 

[Clover]

If the gymnast is a strong level 5 and is mentally stable, QUOTE]

This cracks me up. My DD isn't exactly mentally tough, but hopefully she IS mentally stable.

 

[HannahGS]

I just think it'd be really hard for older gymnasts (11+) because they're starting to develop and have fear and injuries.

FOR EXAMPLE:
2013-2014 season I competed old 5 (for the second time), scored out of old 6 and did new 6.(I was 12-13) My coaches put me on track to do 7-8 this optional season but I couldn't because I got injured and developed a bunch of mental blocks.

I assume this happens to a lot of older gymnasts who try to do the 5-8 jump.