Parents Venting...and don't know what to do..

[Sydsmom]

As you know my DD has been out for a little over 3 weeks with a severe back sprain (not Spondylosis thank goodness) and has been cleard to return on a moderate activity level. No twising or spinal jaring motions.
Her first day back is today!! WOO HOO...BUT we were up at gym monday to try on new uniforms and warm ups and found out the HC told all the level 5's that they will not be promoted unless they have a kip by July 31st!!!
Well DD is close but not there compounded they won't let her do it as a stradle...which she has!!
Plus compound that she will be gone out of town the next two weeks!
When we first talked about her going to 5 they said...no problem...she just won't compete till she gets it. Well now they have already made the decision and put her down in 4!! WTH?? She is at a loss and so am I!
I told her to go to open gym with a friend who is a higher level and work kips....I don't know what else to tell her.

 

[bogwoppit]

Firstly I get that you are upset. Sometimes it is hard to see the woods for the trees.

The last thing your DD needs after a back strain is even more time in an open gym. Kips are hard on your arms, back and abs and the gym should be focussing on strength in those areas after her break from gym. If she can only straddle her kips, and she is young, it is probably because she lacks the strength to do them with her legs together,

To ensure no further back strains I would want her to be very strong through her core muscles and I would focus on that, rather than her kips or L5. As without that core strength she will get hurt again and will struggle to get those "legs together kips".

I know it is tough to hear your DD is not moving up, many of us have heard those words. But the coaches do have their reasons, and with five weeks off gymnastics this summer I can imagine what those reasons are.

It is best not to look at it as "being put down in 4', but as taking the time to be strong enough for the rigors of L5. Honestly just "getting a kip" is no where near good enough for L5 and it takes quite some time to get a kip and then perfect a kip.

If you are really concerned ask the coach for a private meeting and ask exactly what your DD needs to work on for L5? I cannot imagine them not telling you the truth.

It took my youngest three years to get that kip, her core strength was not the best and she had to work on it for ages. But one day it came and stayed for good, then she got to move on up.

 

[Sydsmom]

Firstly I get that you are upset. Sometimes it is hard to see the woods for the trees.

The last thing your DD needs after a back strain is even more time in an open gym. Kips are hard on your arms, back and abs and the gym should be focussing on strength in those areas after her break from gym. If she can only straddle her kips, and she is young, it is probably because she lacks the strength to do them with her legs together,

To ensure no further back strains I would want her to be very strong through her core muscles and I would focus on that, rather than her kips or L5. As without that core strength she will get hurt again and will struggle to get those "legs together kips".

I know it is tough to hear your DD is not moving up, many of us have heard those words. But the coaches do have their reasons, and with five weeks off gymnastics this summer I can imagine what those reasons are.

It is best not to look at it as "being put down in 4', but as taking the time to be strong enough for the rigors of L5. Honestly just "getting a kip" is no where near good enough for L5 and it takes quite some time to get a kip and then perfect a kip.

If you are really concerned ask the coach for a private meeting and ask exactly what your DD needs to work on for L5? I cannot imagine them not telling you the truth.

It took my youngest three years to get that kip, her core strength was not the best and she had to work on it for ages. But one day it came and stayed for good, then she got to move on up.

I hear what you are saying...I do want to mention that my daughter is 12 and 5 ft 4. She's not only older but taller which is why when she went to camp the coaches told her to work on a straddle kip instead of a pike. Which she got with bent arms!
While she has been out of the gym she focused on abs, shoulder and leg conditioning with physical therapy. She didn't injure herself because her core wasn't strong enough, it's because she torqued her back on a vault move.
I think what really makes me angry is that we had that meeting with the coaches and told her exactly what she needed to do...which she worked very hard untill camp and the sprain. I feel like they aren't taking that into consideration. Everyone else in her level is 8 or under, and that is hard for her. There is also a girl who mocks DD because she is so tall and older and is only in level 4. So compounded with all the other facts I supported her decision bot emotionaly and monetarily to fight for L5.
I feel as though we did everything right...then got pushed away regardless.
Just my feelings.....

 

[bogwoppit]

Then you need to go to talk with the coaches one on one.

If they do not allow straddle kips there is little you can do. My child at 12 and that height straddled her kips, as did all the older girls in the gym. But we are not under USAG and our coaches are just thrilled with any kip.

Perhaps the gym is not the best fit for an older gymnast. Have you also considered gyms with prep op type programmes, they seem way more fun for older girls. Mine from 12-13 did that type of thing and loved it.

Some gyms are just hard on older girls at the lower levels.

Again I get that you are upset, and why, but you can only fix this with the gym involved. I still do not think extra hours in open gym are the key. A dialogue might be.

 

[lhmom]

I was thinking along the same lines. Trying to get a kip quickly while coming back from a back injury might not be what the coaches want for her (concern about further injury). I agree with bog- the only way you will know what the HC is thinking is to meet with him/her. If it were me, I wouldn't let her work on kips without a coach present. I know it has to be frustrating for her especially being older. Maybe they would compromise and let her train with the 5's but scratch bars at comps until she has the kip? Good luck!

 

[gym law mom]

I have to agree with the others. You need to schedule a sit down meeting with the coaches for L5 (or whoever decides on move up) and discuss your concerns. This would be the time to ask about why no straddle kip. As Bog put it so well, the kip comes and it goes and finally they get it consistently, but it can be a long time before they are doing technically correct kips 98% of the time.
Bog had a good idea about looking for a gym with prep op. It has sounded like you haven't really been happy with this gym for several months, however it comes down to how your dd feels. Does she want to do gymnastics regardlesss of the level or only if she's a L5?

 

[Sydsmom]

I have to agree with the others. You need to schedule a sit down meeting with the coaches for L5 (or whoever decides on move up) and discuss your concerns. This would be the time to ask about why no straddle kip. As Bog put it so well, the kip comes and it goes and finally they get it consistently, but it can be a long time before they are doing technically correct kips 98% of the time.
Bog had a good idea about looking for a gym with prep op. It has sounded like you haven't really been happy with this gym for several months, however it comes down to how your dd feels. Does she want to do gymnastics regardlesss of the level or only if she's a L5?

Good question!! I think she would do L4 if that is where they put her but reclutantly. We've heard of PrepOp but never explored it. What is the difference in competition? Competition is what she loves!! Well that and learning new skills.
We have practice tonight and I'll have DD, myself and the coach sit down and discuss. I feel if they said she would go, they should honor that and let her fight if that is what she want's to do. They won't promote her mid season if she gets it, so it's L5 or L4 no in between.

 

[bogwoppit]

Prep op varies from place to place. But generally the girls still have as many competitions and the skills are about the same, but they have their own music and routines on floor and beam and bars. Often if a child is missing a skill, such as a kip or cartwheel on beam, they can substitue other skills for bonuses. Girls with skills at L7-9 are often seen at these meets as they want to do gym without the mega hours or pressure. If she just wants to do gym and compete, prep op may be the perfect fit.

The joy of prep op is that there are lots of older girls and comps are way more relaxed and fun. But they do have States and championships.

We have quite a few prep op parents here and their girls love it.

Our system in Quebec is all like prep op, my girls have had their own routines since they were six. Do check and see if it is possible in your area as it might be just what she needs.


:: USA Gymnastics :: Prep Optional Programs :: That is a link to the USAG site explaining prep op. There are other similar programmes in States not listed, such as Mason Dixon, JOGA etc.

 

[bookworm]

After reading all this and seeing that your daughter is 12 and currently does not have a kip, I would totally explore Prep Op for her...it's got to be more enjoyable than the drudgery of the Level 4 compulsory routines for another year...and as you say, there are girls in her level/gym who have been unkind in their comments to her about her height and age so I would get her out of that whole scenario ASAP. From what I've seen in Prep Op, it seems to focus more on what the gymnast CAN do versus what they cannot do (while still working on the skills etc)

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Oh. I agree so much w/everyone else re: Prep Op!!! There was a very long discussion thread here not too long ago about it. I hope you will explore the link Bog included in her post. The Prep Optional program really is taking off too, which I soooo happy about!!! I think it gives girls the option to participate in this sometimes crazy sport even IF they do not want to pursue the upper optional levels, and/or they want to have some time in their lives for other things other than the hours that are required for L9/10 training!!!

My own DD was in L4/5/6 and then developed some pretty serious fear issues as well as some nagging injuries. She did Prep Op for a year and it was absolutely wonderful! She has since gone on to compete Level 7 and is training L8 for the upcoming season.

All the girls on her prep op team were middle school and up. They had a lot of fun together and the competitions were much more low key. Sounds perfect for your DD!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Then you need to go to talk with the coaches one on one.

If they do not allow straddle kips there is little you can do. My child at 12 and that height straddled her kips, as did all the older girls in the gym. But we are not under USAG and our coaches are just thrilled with any kip.

Perhaps the gym is not the best fit for an older gymnast. Have you also considered gyms with prep op type programmes, they seem way more fun for older girls. Mine from 12-13 did that type of thing and loved it.

Some gyms are just hard on older girls at the lower levels.

Again I get that you are upset, and why, but you can only fix this with the gym involved. I still do not think extra hours in open gym are the key. A dialogue might be.

maybe i missed something bog, but usag doesn't care if you straddle or pike. and for a bad back, straddling is the best choice.

 

[bogwoppit]

No Dunno, this is not about USAG, but some coaches are so uptight that they just refuse to let kids straddle. I guess the way I wrote my response was confusing. We have heard the "no straddle" thing quite a few times here from various coaches.

Makes no sense does it?

As you say, straddling is much easier on the back.

 

[Sydsmom]

No Dunno, this is not about USAG, but some coaches are so uptight that they just refuse to let kids straddle. I guess the way I wrote my response was confusing. We have heard the "no straddle" thing quite a few times here from various coaches.

Makes no sense does it?


As you say, straddling is much easier on the back.

Re: Straddle vs pike kip...our coaches say it's cheating to do a straddle kip. But what kills me is you have these 4 ft nothing girls with the bar fairly low so when my 5 "4' DD comes up there she is practically sitting on the floor when she glides. But because she is the tallest they don't adjust the bar for her. It makes her have to raise her legs higher than the other girls for fear of hitting the mats!! Oh I could go on...another part time coach recommended Pre Op to us last night and gave me the scoop on what it is and how it works. Gotta say it sounds just what DD needs!!!
I am going to look into it. As I understand it now...she could participate in 1 L5 meet then go Pre Op Gold...I think. I think it might be a great option for her.
Thank you for all your help with this...at least I feel like we have options now instead of fighting all the time with very specific requirements!!

 

[emorymom]

I'm not discounting any opinions that she shouldn't be working for the kip because of her back. But it seems like she should probably be staying strong on vacation anyway, since she just got cleared to come back. Have you looked at having her work out at a gym near where you are staying? Then if her back is feeling great, she could work on her kip there. In your shoes I might also look at a chiro near where you are staying.

 

[bogwoppit]

Sydsmom I hear you on that straddle vs legs together kip thing. I know girls who have quit becaus etheir coaches were so bull headed about it. Both my girls straddled, in fact youngest learned her kip that way. Oldest went to the straddle when she got a lot taller. To me a kip is a kip.

SO glad there are some prep op programs available for your DD. It is such a great system and girls continue to get new skills and can compete them when they have them. The compulsory system in USAG has many benefits, but sometimes older gymnasts just need to have another way to progress on their own terms. The prep op optional type routines are FUN!

 

[Sydsmom]

I'm not discounting any opinions that she shouldn't be working for the kip because of her back. But it seems like she should probably be staying strong on vacation anyway, since she just got cleared to come back. Have you looked at having her work out at a gym near where you are staying? Then if her back is feeling great, she could work on her kip there. In your shoes I might also look at a chiro near where you are staying.

Yes she will be practicing with a team doing conditioning and drills for kips in AZ. I am excited for her. I spoke to the coach last night and he understands her limitation and is willing to work with her. I think it might be good for her...we'll see. I didn't think about the chiro...I'll look into that.

 

[bogwoppit]

Chiros and backs do not mix that well, especially as chiros are not all equally qualified. Spinal adjustments are not a good idea on children. Massage and electrical stimulation therapies do work well though.

Perhaps a sports physiotherapist would be a great stop. That is where my DD got her home excersise program from. The sport therapist was able to evaluate her from the stand point of being an athlete who wanted to return to her sport and to be strong again.

Whoever you decide to take your DD to see, make sure they understand her injury and that you are 100% certain that they are qualified to do the job. Can't mess about with backs.

 

[gym law mom]

Yup. Bog is correct. Spinal "adjustments" are not recommended until at least age 18. See if your family doc will refer her to a physical therapist to just go over some exercises she can do at home.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Re: Straddle vs pike kip...our coaches say it's cheating to do a straddle kip. But what kills me is you have these 4 ft nothing girls with the bar fairly low so when my 5 "4' DD comes up there she is practically sitting on the floor when she glides. But because she is the tallest they don't adjust the bar for her. It makes her have to raise her legs higher than the other girls for fear of hitting the mats!! Oh I could go on...another part time coach recommended Pre Op to us last night and gave me the scoop on what it is and how it works. Gotta say it sounds just what DD needs!!!
I am going to look into it. As I understand it now...she could participate in 1 L5 meet then go Pre Op Gold...I think. I think it might be a great option for her.
Thank you for all your help with this...at least I feel like we have options now instead of fighting all the time with very specific requirements!!

"stupid is, stupid does".")

 

[eme777]

My DD had a severe back sprain earlier this year. A mom of one of her teammates is a physical therapist & she showed us how to apply KT tape (Kinesiology Therapeutic Tape) to her back. My DD said that she felt like it did help her. My understanding is that the tape is supposed to stimulate the blood and promote self-healing. It's available at Sport Authority & other large sporting good chains & online through amazon. If you're interested, I would find someone knowledgeable that can show you how to use it.

I am with you on the straddle kips for the tall girls! My DD is 10 yrs old, 5'2" and she still has to do the piked kips. It's her worst skill on bars! The previous coach wouldn't let her do them straddled! I was just thinking, though, we had recent coaching changes, so she should ask her current coaches about switching to straddle. It really isn't the same skills for tall kids as it is for the shorties. I felt the same way about the shoot-through in level 4. Girls with short legs barely had to cast, making it any easy skill. These long-legged girls have to work so much harder!