Parents What is bullying?

[Midwestmommy]

I had a long phone call last night with a gym mom I haven't seen in a while. Her daughter is at a fairly small gym. Her daughter recently decided to leave gym. This girl is probably one of the ones that has to work a little harder at gymnastics (mine is like that too)--not a "phenom" but not bad either. She was apparently training to compete Level 6. I think that was the whole group, not just her daughter. They are similar to our gym in that they don't compete Level 5 (test out).

Her daughter recently made the decision to leave gym. According to mom, not because of having to work at it, not because of injuries (she did have some last year). But because she just can't stand the gym anymore and according to mom it just sucked the joy out of the sport. She called it bullying.

Is this bullying? You know, I'm not sure. But it sounds miserable for a little girl.

Coaches tell kids to quit if they don't like one thing or another on a regular basis--part of their normal banter.
Coaches/owners tell the kids there are too many on the team and they don't need them all.
After practice coaches give lots of hugs to their few favorites in the lobby and give reports to their parents or grandparents, while ignoring other kids and parents. This had annoyed mom so much she would not wait in the lobby after practice.
In conference coaches told mom of a very specific plan, and recommended that her daughter do vault privates with a younger coach once a week before practice. For a month after the conference, no word and no response to two emails the parent sent to follow up.
Five weeks after getting her first grips, the coach sent a message home through the daughter that her grips are too big and she needs to order new ones. The mom had sent an email about her daughter saying the grips were falling off after the first week she started wearing them and got no response to the email.
On bars mom watched one night, and the coach spent almost an hour with four kids on bars, while three teammates (including her daughter) worked on another bar across the room with no comments, feedback, or corrections from the coach for the entire rotation.
Coaches have a "minion" parent who is fiercely competitive with other parents. The mom reports on conversations to the coaches and digs through other kids' mailslots.

Does this stuff happen everywhere?

 

[Popcorn]

No, that stuff does not happen everywhere.

I recommend trying another gym before deciding to leave gymnastics. That kind of drama is not normal and is indicative of the culture of that particular gym (or that sub-section of that gym), not of gymnastics.

 

[lovegymnastics22]

I'd call it "Favoritism" gone very, very wrong. I think there is some level of some of the stuff you are describing in many gyms, but this sounds like it is *way* out of control.

I also hope she can find a new gym rather than quitting.

 

[Gymmommy71]

My daughter once spent a season (several years ago) where she reported that bar training situation to me regularly - that her and another girl in a 6 person group were basically sent to do drills on a bar by themslves w/ no corrections or attention from the coach who spent the entire time helping the 4 other girls who were further ahead on bars. I wouldn't call it bullying, but instead a coach giving up on a gymnast. There are a lot of coaches who don't want to put in the effort towards kids who can't pick up quickly, or kids that they know won't pull in the top scores - sounds like that is the culture at your friend's daughter's gym. She should try a new gym before giving up the sport. I hope she does.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Coaches tell kids to quit if they don't like one thing or another on a regular basis--part of their normal banter.
Coaches/owners tell the kids there are too many on the team and they don't need them all.
After practice coaches give lots of hugs to their few favorites in the lobby and give reports to their parents or grandparents, while ignoring other kids and parents. This had annoyed mom so much she would not wait in the lobby after practice.
In conference coaches told mom of a very specific plan, and recommended that her daughter do vault privates with a younger coach once a week before practice. For a month after the conference, no word and no response to two emails the parent sent to follow up.
Five weeks after getting her first grips, the coach sent a message home through the daughter that her grips are too big and she needs to order new ones. The mom had sent an email about her daughter saying the grips were falling off after the first week she started wearing them and got no response to the email.
On bars mom watched one night, and the coach spent almost an hour with four kids on bars, while three teammates (including her daughter) worked on another bar across the room with no comments, feedback, or corrections from the coach for the entire rotation.
Coaches have a "minion" parent who is fiercely competitive with other parents. The mom reports on conversations to the coaches and digs through other kids' mailslots.


Just a thought...several of these examples illustrate how a mother might feel "bullied", rather than the kid. If all of this is true, then I agree this kid needs to look for a healthier environment rather than quit the sport. However, some of this COULD be just poor communication, and misinterpretation, rather than "bullying". I tend to give coaches/owners the benefit of the doubt most of the time. No one goes to work hoping to do a poor job. Most people want to do a good job and want to feel appreciated for their efforts. No difference for coaches. For example, if kids are constantly complaining about what they "don't like", I can understand the response, "then quit". Especially if these are pre-teens (10+) training L6 who should understand the relationship of hard work to success by now. ( I am NOT saying this is your friend's situation...she may be completely accurate in her perception) I'm just throwing out another possibility.

 

[profmom]

I don't like the big picture here, but on bars, be aware that sometimes girls really do need to use bars rotations, especially during the summer, to build strength. DD is one of these cases. One of her coaches will set an assignment, let's say making five kips in a row or three kip cast handstands and then cast over, and once a girl has accomplished that, she's on to training other skills. If she can't do that, then it's a signal that her strength is deficient for training the things that follow, so she spends the rotation or a good chunk of it working on strength and basic technique. If it's stuff she's been working on for a long time, she may really not need a lot of attention and correction. Mom, watching from the balcony, sees the coach working with the "favored" ones, spotting toe ons, free hips to handstands, pirouettes, etc., while her beloved daughter is off in the corner doing endless leg lifts and kip drills, and it sure looks like the coach has given up, is punishing her, or is playing favorites. But if the coach handles this properly and explains the reasoning, the gymnast herself may be grumpy and surly after such a rotation, but will understand why it played out that way.

In general, what you describe, taken at face value, is bad behavior but does not by my understanding of the term constitute bullying. I think the charge of "bullying" tends to get thrown about a lot too loosely. I would describe it more (again taking at face value) as favoritism and neglect.

 

[gymfun]

I have witnessed this treatment at our old gym. One of the many reasons we left. When the kids start complaining about coaches like so and so better and the adult can also see it then that is a red flag to me. I would find another gym ASAP. Once you switch to a gym that coaches actually coach all the girls you will be upset you didn't leave sooner.... AND your daughter will not want to quit when treated properly

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes, that is a big problem.

That is pretty horrific behaviour for coaches, the fact is that all coaches have favourites. It is just a part of life, everyone is drawn to some people more than others and coaches are no exception. But the art of a good coach is to ensure nobody can work out who those favourites are.

If I saw this type of issue, whether or not my child was one of the favourites, I would be leaving.

 

[gopuckgo]

It is unfortunately something that happens sometimes. That sounds similar, but not even as bad as our former gym. We of course left there because of the bullying and blatant favoritism of one to two children whose parents kissed the butts of the coaches in order to get preferential treatment.

Why is there always "the monster mom" in almost every gym? They befriend the coaches and tattle back rumors and private information. They gossip and target one or two talented kids to pick at and especially the mom of that child. They do extra curricular activities with the coach and treat other parents like crap. I have seen this at every gym we have been to, WTH? So unprofessional!

This type of behavior by employees would not be tolerated in any other environment, whether it's school or daycare, etc. These coaches sound like they need to change careers. Why are they coaching children? If they are that miserable then they need to quit coaching.

 

[GymCMLA]

This type of emotional abuse (it was often done very passive aggressively) is why we left our gym a month ago. We also had a monster parent/grandparent, lack of communication from HC, a chosen few who were doted on by abusive coach (all are prepubescent, she seemed to prey on the peripubescent 10-13 yo girls) It was so sad, but we are in a better place and our transition is going well.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Sounds awful, and no there is nothing like this at our gym. I'd help her find another gym, have her give it another try, and then make a decision on whether she really wants to quit. No nightmare parents, great coaches who address issues in a fair manner, kids who like their team and enjoy what they do. It is possible. I can't imagine any one of our coaches telling a child they didn't need them on the team or not rotating them through all the stations so that the coach works with each gymnast (tailoring to where each gymnast is at). Or telling a kid to quit. There has to be another gym where she would have a better experience.

 

[duyetanh]

Nothing like this at our gym either thank God...no monster peeps, and imho the coaches favor everybody.

 

[raenndrops]

This girl needs to consider a gym switch before choosing retirement.
At our gym, if a girl is working at a bar by herself, it is by her choice. Coaches never suggest a girl quit.
#1 - girls don't quit... they retire, move on to pursue other interests, or take a break.
#2 - The coaches, even though our gym team has grown to 8x what it was when OG started on team, would never tell a girl that we are overcrowded and don't need her.
#3 - Before a girl decides to retire, she and hr parents and the HC have a sit down to discuss options (switch to Xcel, just train but not compete for a while, work out with the Middle School or High School team - if they have evening activities they want/need to do, tutoring at the gym - if they are struggling academically ... it helps that HC and I are both licensed teachers - HC K-8 Math and me 7-12 Math, Social Studies, & Language Arts... and an undergrad K-8 major. There are also a couple parents with a science background if necessary.)

 

[Ruth]

This is so sad. Smells like a lazy coaching style.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

YIKES!

 

[xxStumpyxx]

There is a hint of a situation in my daughters group, I want to be careful not to say the coach blatantly has a favourite but it is becoming obvious to must of us parents that she does have a favoured girl, maybe there is a good reason for it maybe the reason would no exist if all girls where treated the same way.

There is a girl who only comes to 2/3 practices a week due to other commitments - fair enough that is life, this girl gets a heck of a lot of attention when she is there and 9/10 gets to work of harder skills even though she is not that much different to the rest of the girls, they have been working drills for round off backhands prinhs more many weeks, this girl and my daughter have been the only ones being about to do the round of back spring with a spot with the coach while the others are still doing round off fall backs, the reason for this is because they had to get the round off falls backs with the right form before moving on, my daughter has been at the same stage for several weeks - round off stop by the coach and then does a spotted backflip, the other girl does the round off back flip without stopping with a spot and now can do it alone, I know all children progress at different rates but when I see the coach walk away from spotting my daughter to go and work with the other girl is annoying, fair enough if she is finished on the station that needs a spot, that is fine, but she walks away when my daughter is expecting a spot for a back handspring and has to go back to round off falls backs as the coach has gone to work with the other girl,

Same with beam, they are supposed to be able to do a back walkover on the floor foam beam before moving to the high fat beam to work on them, this girl was allowed to go to the high beam and miss the low beam.

I don't want this sort of behaviour to happen in the group as I don't want any bad feeling between the gymnasts, parents and coach, it is not the fault of the gymnast or her parents. I might sound like I am jealous, but when it comes to the coach walking away from the spotting station to work with this girl it is not nice to see. This girl was allowed to show off her round off back handspring while the group had to sit down and watch her, not a great move when they all don't get the same oppertunity to learn this skill, it is more like this is what you might have won type thing. I hope this early tiny show of favouritism doesn't continue and that that coach is just inexperienced to deal with this and excited that a girl can do this skill, I think what sent the alarm bells off was the fact that nearly all the other parents in the group have noticed this

 

[gymdog]

There is a hint of a situation in my daughters group, I want to be careful not to say the coach blatantly has a favourite but it is becoming obvious to must of us parents that she does have a favoured girl, maybe there is a good reason for it maybe the reason would no exist if all girls where treated the same way.

There is a girl who only comes to 2/3 practices a week due to other commitments - fair enough that is life, this girl gets a heck of a lot of attention when she is there and 9/10 gets to work of harder skills even though she is not that much different to the rest of the girls, they have been working drills for round off backhands prinhs more many weeks, this girl and my daughter have been the only ones being about to do the round of back spring with a spot with the coach while the others are still doing round off fall backs, the reason for this is because they had to get the round off falls backs with the right form before moving on, my daughter has been at the same stage for several weeks - round off stop by the coach and then does a spotted backflip, the other girl does the round off back flip without stopping with a spot and now can do it alone, I know all children progress at different rates but when I see the coach walk away from spotting my daughter to go and work with the other girl is annoying, fair enough if she is finished on the station that needs a spot, that is fine, but she walks away when my daughter is expecting a spot for a back handspring and has to go back to round off falls backs as the coach has gone to work with the other girl,

Same with beam, they are supposed to be able to do a back walkover on the floor foam beam before moving to the high fat beam to work on them, this girl was allowed to go to the high beam and miss the low beam.

I don't want this sort of behaviour to happen in the group as I don't want any bad feeling between the gymnasts, parents and coach, it is not the fault of the gymnast or her parents. I might sound like I am jealous, but when it comes to the coach walking away from the spotting station to work with this girl it is not nice to see. This girl was allowed to show off her round off back handspring while the group had to sit down and watch her, not a great move when they all don't get the same oppertunity to learn this skill, it is more like this is what you might have won type thing. I hope this early tiny show of favouritism doesn't continue and that that coach is just inexperienced to deal with this and excited that a girl can do this skill, I think what sent the alarm bells off was the fact that nearly all the other parents in the group have noticed this

This doesn't sound like favoritism, it sounds like this girl is more advanced than the rest of the girls but can't move up due to only being able to come twice a week. From an outside perspective most of this post reads like jealousy. It's common to have to move between gymnasts (I have a group where almost everyone has a roundoff back handspring by themselves, and a few have a standing back handspring but no roundoff back handspring... There is no perfect stations I can make...so I make a few and then have to make adjustments like sending some girls to tramp when they get to a station where they'd need to do an unspotted back handspring). Also common that if a child already has mastered a skill and is strong in fundamentals, that they would stop doing the low beam progressions for the skill at this point. I would never hold a child back on low beam just because "the other girls need it." There are some things my more advanced girls just have to participate in as a group because I simply can't be in three places at once, but that is not one of them at all. Also common for a girl to demonstrate a skill the kids are working on and this is helpful to provide visual feedback and also a sense that the skill is possible to master.

It sounds like the girl should move up from your daughters group,but again I think the detail that she can only come two times a week is relevant in that respect.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

My issue is that the coach walks away from spotting my daughter who is working on the station where the coach needs to be spotting to go and work with this girl, I have not issues if there was no one at the spotting station, there is then no reason shy the coach shouldn't spot this girl doing something different to the others, that is fine but not when she walks away from other gymnasts who needs spotting, they are not going to magically learn this skill without a spot and in my opinion it would be dangerous to try u spotted back handspring before they are ready just because the coach has walked away.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

Going back to the beam thing, the girl hasn't mastered the low beam at all, it is just that the high beam is wider(we have a wide high beam) and easier to do the back walkover on as you don't need your hands so close together,

To be honest unless you are actually witnessing first hand what is gong on ii is to assume it is jealousy, like I said it is great for the girl to be more advanced. That is her journey, but not at the cost of others who need help at the spotting station and the coach isn't there, how will the others progress when they don't get a chance to learn because they are not getting the coaches time. That is favouritism. For the record the girl cannot do one morning due to a dance class, the next group up trains in the evenings and she can do those classes.

 

[z2akids]

The coach can only be in so many places at once. Look at it from the other girl's point of view - is it fair for her to not get coaching, corrections, help with improving her BHD simply because the other girls still need a spot? If the coach sees something that should be fixed or improved upon, it is important for the gymnast to get those corrections while they can still apply them. What if the parents of the other girls were complaining that their DD's were not getting to progress because your DD was taking the coach's time on the spotted BHS when she could be working with them on their progression?

My suggestion is to go shopping or something while your DD is at the gym. It is easy to become a CGM and start counting how many turns a child gets at a spotted station, etc. Getting out of the gym makes my life and DD's a lot happier.

The other day I got to the gym a little early for pick up and the girls were on bars. The coaches were spotting kips, some girls were working them independently and then some of the girls were working cast handstands and flyaways. The coach left a spotted kip station for a bit to work with a girl on her cast handstand. It is a skill they don't need for competition this year, but is important to let the girls continue to progress, not just work at the same level (even within the same competition level). Eventually they will all be working those skills as they progress.

As some here say, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Your DD potentially has years in this sport and will have her ROBHS in time and you will move on to worrying about the darned kip or giant or whatever other skill eludes her.

These things do not mean the coach is favoring a child.