What is the point of this?

[LizzieLac]

Just came from level 5 states this weekend. The floor judging was out of control. The majority of the scores were 6-7 and the highest score was 8.6. I have watched probably over 100 level 5 floor routines this past season and plenty last year. The only time I have ever seen a score in the 6 range is if the child fell, or could not do a major element like the back handspring.

The rest of the events were judged tough but reasonable - not a ton of 9s but a few, many 8s, and a range of scores as you would expect.

We were dumbfounded as to why these floor judges were scoring so low. Frankly, I would think that these gymnasts would have to have a certain level of competancy to even qualify for state championships.

Can someone tell me why this happens and what the benefit is? Needless to say, no one could even score close to a 36 AA we these kind of floor scores. It is very frustrating and seems unfair. I am not sure what this really teaches the gymnast in the long run. Has anyone else seen this?

 

[Allieonbeam]

As a parent, I would tell you to not even bother understand why.
But since I am also a judge, I can tell you that bad form, incomplete or omitted elements and falls of course can drive the scores down. Did the girls score in 8-9s all season? If yes, then it's a very significant drop, even if judging at states is generally stricter than at invitationals and I do understand why you would be concerned to see that majority of scores were in 6-7s, I would be concerned too.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Did someone forget their JO code of points and use their FIG instead

 

[iwannacoach]

It's a state meet, so of course they'd have every brevet judge from all over the land on the panels. It was either a slow weekend on the optional side, or the hospitality room had been widely and enthusiatically promoted.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i keep telling you that the system is broke...

 

[GymBee97]

This is why I say don't use scores as a yard stick for improvement in skills. You get a judge or two with a bad day and this can happen.

It's hard to see the low scores but if they were equally hard on all gymnasts then the placement rankings were probably fair.

 

[LizzieLac]

Yes, the floor judges were hard on all level 5 gymnasts, all day, every age group. But it was stupid and terribly out of whack with the other 3 events. But I say that is wasn't just hard judging. I have been at meets with hard judging. So, a girl that usually gets a 9.0 gets maybe an 8.4 or even an 8.2. This was WAY over the top, in that it was not consistent with any other meet I have seen (in state or out of state).

Agreed, that all gymnasts were affected equally, but I just don't see what the point is.

 

[chalkbowl]

I'm fairly certain I know what State meet is in question and the complaint is coming from athletes, parents, and coaches alike. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with a panel of bravet judges as the state has a relatively small number of judge in that pool... Unfortunately I can't help with understanding a rhyme or reason behind what happened :-/

 

[serenity's Momma]

Since we are on the subject of strange judging behaviors; Our gym has 6 meets per year for pre-competitive team girls. As the season went on the judges seemed to get more strict on their judging on the girls who had their skills and their technique down to a science. But the girls who where sloppy and missing skills were judged easier. So my daughter who is a control freak when it comes to her skills would get an 8 when her friend who does her handstands without pointing her toes and has sloppy press to headstands would get the same score. Any clue as to why the judges do that? It doesn't help the girls to think they are doing well now and when they start competing for real they are scored low because they don't have the skills they need or the technique.

 

[cbone]

At our state meet, I saw the opposite. Scores were through the roof. Even my daughter was getting scores that had me thinking, "How'd that score THAT high?"

 

[LizzieLac]

At our state meet, I saw the opposite. Scores were through the roof. Even my daughter was getting scores that had me thinking, "How'd that score THAT high?"

So, if this happens and extrame opposite happens, how should the athletes and the coaches approach the sport? Does this happen at the optional levels.

Dunno, is right, it is broken. But what about fixing it?

 

[MaryA]

Scores at DD's state meet were weird. Beam scores were super high. Pretty much, if you didn't fall off, you were almost guaranteed a 9. Floor scores ran hot and cold. Mostly they were really low (though not as low as the OP's state floor scores!), but then a few gyms were consistantly scoring 9.6+. They were good gyms, but it seemed odd that there weren't a lot of scores in the 8.5-9.5 range (which I would imagine is probably the range that most girls who make it to states are generally scoring in). HC watched DD's video (it was at the same time as level 9 regionals so she couldn't be there) and told DD that her bar and vault scores were scored low (though she didn't mention her floor score, which I thought was low). Whatever. In the end, I think she probably got the AA that she deserved, when you average in the highs and the lows.

When DD was at another gym, they went to a meet that seemed to have crazy low scores and there were lots of complaints. It was funny because the gym posted the scores online a day or two after the meet and then took them down again a day or two after that. There were rumors that they were going to add 2 points to everyone's AA, and then there were rumors that anyone who would have qualified for states if they had an extra 2 points could add those two points... in the end, no new scores were ever posted, and nobody on DD's team needed those two points to qualify for States (either they qualified at another meet or else those 2 points wouldn't get them over the threshold anyway) so I don't know exactly what happened. 2 judges are now required at every event at every level, so I would imagine that would take care of a lot of the extreme scoring, but I guess if one judge is judging consistantly high or consistantly low, especially if that judge had a very strong personality, the other judge might start adjusting his/her scores higher so that the two scores aren't so far apart.

But you're right... extreme scoring, in either direction, doesn't really help anyone, and can lead to frustration.

 

[Allieonbeam]

Yes, the floor judges were hard on all level 5 gymnasts, all day, every age group. But it was stupid and terribly out of whack with the other 3 events. But I say that is wasn't just hard judging. I have been at meets with hard judging. So, a girl that usually gets a 9.0 gets maybe an 8.4 or even an 8.2. This was WAY over the top, in that it was not consistent with any other meet I have seen (in state or out of state).

Agreed, that all gymnasts were affected equally, but I just don't see what the point is.

yeah, it does sounds like a couple of judges just made their mission to stick it to everyone, if there were no multiple falls in a routine, then it looks like the girls were absolutely hammered on form
I've had coaches approaching me at a meet asking for explanation of a score and I have every gymnast (their number, not name) in my notebook with all the deductions written down, so I can go back and explain what I deducted for, I wonder if any of the coaches approached the head judge on floor, it can also be escalated to a Meet Referee

 

[cbone]

So, if this happens and extrame opposite happens, how should the athletes and the coaches approach the sport? Does this happen at the optional levels.

Dunno, is right, it is broken. But what about fixing it?

It was nice for my daughter, because she really wanted to earn a 37 AA pin and did at States. Now that her big AA goal is done, I don't really care if the scores are high or low as long as the judging is consistent. At one meet we went to out-of-state, the scores were low- except for the one team that was from the state we travelled to. That was frustrating to have virtually identical routines from our girls coming in over a half point lower than the other team's girls. Other than situations like that, if the best gymnast wins, I guess it doesn't matter to me. The AA score needed to qualify for States is low enough that even tough judging won't be a problem if the girls perform.

 

[monkeysmom]

My initial thought when I saw this happening at a meet (not scientifically verified)....was, wow that judge is on their own personal power trip. By that I mean they were trying to have more control than other judges on where kids placed in the allaround. I thought wow, if this judge is using three times the deviations (or range) of the other judges, then their event will have a much bigger impact on where kids place in the allaround. In other words, give the kid a really low score (which is a point lower than any other judges score), and you are making sure they don't place top 10 in the allaround. I'm probably not saying it right, but by using a much bigger range of scores than other judges they are grabbing more control of the allaround placement. Power trip. Then I thought, huh.... And that's about how much thought I gave it.

 

[J&A's mom]

DS had a meet where the highbar scores were really low. They were consistent, so it didn't matter that way. But it is a problem if the event in question is your best event, and your major competition has it their worst event.

Imagine this.....Vault scoring is low at the Olympics. USA is banking on high vault scores. Bars scoring is high at the Olympics. Who wins?

 

[bribri514]

That does seem strange. But I read a lot of people talking about routines they watch and not understanding the score. Not that this explains every score but remember, judges are looking for what is -wrong- with a routine while parents and fans and even a lot of coaches look for what's -right-. Just having that perspective alone can really alter what you see which sometimes explains why after watching your DD or a teammate or just another competitor's routine it is so hard to understand why a judge scored it so low.