Parents What makes kids good/strong tumblers?

[Deleted member D3987]

I'm wondering what makes kids good at tumbling. My dd is strong but not strong at tumbling I'm just curious what makes someone good at it, and I have anxiety about her doing tumbling if she's going to fall on her head.

Wheaties

 

[Bug's mom]

It's genetic. You are either born predominantly fast or slow twitch. Fast twitch kids tend to be great at tumbling, vaulting, etc. I don't think you can really alter what you are born with.

Actually born with next to no muscle. Would suggest that the very existence of targeted conditioning programs are at the heart of the concept of developing muscle essential for a given skill set. You can absolutely target the type, location and amount of muscle you develop through a combination of training and nutrition. And yes, there are genetic predispositions to developing fibre types with varying ease but we are all born with both types. How we cultivate those is hugely environmental.

 

[LJL07]

My understanding is that you really are born with predominantly one or the other type of "twitch" if you will. That is genetic. Think marathon runner versus sprinter. You can build more slow twitch through endurance training and fast twitch through bursts of speed exercising, but genetically, there is a predisposition towards one twitch or the other. I can actually see a difference in the fast twitch versus slow twitch optional girls. That being said, they all do the same conditioning as a group.

 

[Bug's mom]

My understanding is that you really are born with predominantly one or the other type of "twitch" if you will. That is genetic. Think marathon runner versus sprinter. You can build more slow twitch through endurance training and fast twitch through bursts of speed exercising, but genetically, there is a predisposition towards one twitch or the other. I can actually see a difference in the fast twitch versus slow twitch optional girls. That being said, they all do the same conditioning as a group.

Not arguing predisposition to develop one more easily than another but it's short sighted to suggest that genetics limits potential to build either. I'm genetically predisposed to diabetes but am not diabetic...and that's by design. Would your sprinter still be a sprinter if they trained endurance for a number of years? Would your endurance runner run marathons if they lifted weights in a conditioning program...or would that build the 'wrong kind' of muscle for the sport? As a former body builder with a Masters in nutrition, I'm not postulating.

 

[tpMom]

Another factor that I haven't really seen discussed yet is proper form. When my DD first started learning back tucks she developed the bad habit of throwing her head back in the skill. The coach stopped all standing tuck practice, worked nothing but strength and shapes with her for 2 weeks, and the next time she threw her tuck she gained 3 feet in height like magic! Everything else is important too, but good conditioning and good form is absolutely a huge part in any strong tumbling.

 

[dancingimmie]

I find this so fascinating. My two girls are the complete opposite of each other. My 14yr old takes after me; long lean muscles. She's a dancer and has beautiful lines. My 9 yr old takes after her dad; she is tiny and was born with biceps and thunder thighs!! She just thinks about conditioning and she gains muscle. She's flexible too. They couldn't be more different. The dancer could do adagio all day and the gymnast is working double layouts. Same mom and dad, same nutrition...

 

[LJL07]

Not arguing predisposition to develop one more easily than another but it's short sighted to suggest that genetics limits potential to build either. I'm genetically predisposed to diabetes but am not diabetic...and that's by design. Would your sprinter still be a sprinter if they trained endurance for a number of years? Would your endurance runner run marathons if they lifted weights in a conditioning program...or would that build the 'wrong kind' of muscle for the sport? As a former body builder with a Masters in nutrition, I'm not postulating.

I think we are sort of saying the same thing at the end of the day, but yes, I actually AM saying that genetics limits the potential to gain one or the other to some extent. The kids who are fast twitch will generally speaking have an easier time with tumbling and quick movement. It's reality. Sure, yes, I see what you're saying. I'm a good example of someone who is naturally fast twitch but built endurance and can run a pretty respectable half marathon. But I am still naturally better at running a 5k. It's just easier to improve my time on short distances.
And yes, the correct form and set is very important too!

 

[Bug's mom]

I think we are sort of saying the same thing at the end of the day, but yes, I actually AM saying that genetics limits the potential to gain one or the other to some extent. The kids who are fast twitch will generally speaking have an easier time with tumbling and quick movement. It's reality. Sure, yes, I see what you're saying. I'm a good example of someone who is naturally fast twitch but built endurance and can run a pretty respectable half marathon. But I am still naturally better at running a 5k. It's just easier to improve my time on short distances.
And yes, the correct form and set is very important too!

Look, folks were looking for advice on capitalizing on developing fast twitch muscle and the advice provided was sound. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me. But we are not saying the same thing...to be clear. I fundamentally disagree with your argument. So only willing to agree to completely disagree.

 

[LJL07]

Look, folks were looking for advice on capitalizing on developing fast twitch muscle and the advice provided was sound. Take it or leave it, makes no difference to me. But we are not saying the same thing...to be clear. I fundamentally disagree with your argument. So only willing to agree to completely disagree.

I thought the OP's question was what makes strong tumblers and one of the answers is fast twitch muscle fiber, as well as good form/technique, set, power, work ethic, etc. I'm not sure what your experience is with gymnastics, but for better or worse, I've learned a lot from observation over the years, as well as from this forum among other things. Feel free to do a search on this very topic on this forum. Example: https://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/...h-and-why-is-fast-better-in-gymnastics.38719/
Some very experienced coaches have weighed in. You may well have a level 10 daughter, but I'm telling you what I'm seeing. So yep, we will have to agree to disagree. I'm telling you that I am watching level 8, 9, 10 and even some hopes kids, and you can SEE the difference.

 

[LJL07]

For what it's worth, I find the discussion about fast versus slow twitch really fascinating. So if you are somehow able to convert a predominantly slow twitch person to predominantly fast twitch through the targeted conditioning programs you mention, I would genuinely like to see this. I know you can build some muscle fiber types through specific exercises. However, I truly did not think it was possible to change the predominant type. Like I said, I find I fall back naturally to being better at bursts of speed no matter how many long runs I do. I'm not being snarky. I'm genuinely interested.

 

[vbdb]

I have a fast twitch kid, crazy fast sprinter, has springs in her legs when tumbling. From the reading I've done (*disclaimer, I am no scientist) I had the impression that there is a predisposition to fast or slow twitch but that there are some type of fast twitch muscle fibres which can be trained either way. But I'd say if you have a preponderance of slow twitch muscle then it's probably less likely you're going to be able to overcome it by retraining the fast twitch that's available to convert.
Undoubtedly good nutrition and training can go a long way to making a better athlete but I highly doubt it can make a wholesale change in muscle type. For kids who are lacking in fast twitch muscles they need good technique to overcome their muscle composition.

 

[Bug's mom]

For what it's worth, I find the discussion about fast versus slow twitch really fascinating. So if you are somehow able to convert a predominantly slow twitch person to predominantly fast twitch through the targeted conditioning programs you mention, I would genuinely like to see this. I know you can build some muscle fiber types through specific exercises. However, I truly did not think it was possible to change the predominant type. Like I said, I find I fall back naturally to being better at bursts of speed no matter how many long runs I do. I'm not being snarky. I'm genuinely interested.

Well, I provided some suggestions on how to make it happen with my first interjection into this thread. If you need to see it to believe it, then give it a try. But don't suggest that folks should give up hope on being good tumblers because they weren't born with a certain kind of muscle fibre. It's akin to suggesting they just give up and that would be foolish.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think the distinction I have heard is that tumbling would probably never come naturally to them, not that they could never be good at it. DD is apparently slow twitch and was almost dropped from the team stream because of it, but several coaches have told me she can be a perfectly good tumbler someday - she is just going to have to work harder and have perfect technique to get there.

 

[LJL07]

Well, I provided some suggestions on how to make it happen with my first interjection into this thread. If you need to see it to believe it, then give it a try. But don't suggest that folks should give up hope on being good tumblers because they weren't born with a certain kind of muscle fibre. It's akin to suggesting they just give up and that would be foolish.

Now that's just ridiculous. I never anywhere said anyone should "give up hope" on being a good tumbler bc she/he isn't fast twitch. Fast twitch gives an edge and makes particularly upper level tumbling (double backs and double layouts) easier to manage, but we have some amazing slow twitch optional gymnasts as well. In particular, one of our slow twitch girls is absolutely beautiful on beam. Her control and lines are just amazing. My fast twitch daughter has to work a lot harder with slow controlled movement on beam for instance, but she can sure tumble. I would hardly tell her to give up on ever having a good beam routine bc she has to work a little harder.