Parents What's a reasonable amount of BWOs?

[Amanda]

Hi! My daughter complained of back pain a fair amount a couple months after starting team so we did an MRI which was thankfully, clear, and she did PT. She's worked quite a bit on stretching her back and strengthening and engaging her core. She's just started to work BWOs on beam regularly and her back has hurt a tiny bit in the process. I know these can be the cause of stress fractures. Does anyone have an opinion as to how many are reasonable in a practice? I'd like her to be able to compete a BWO (she's quite a ways off needing to yet) but don't want her to end up with an injury. Her back is very flexible (way more so than her legs!) so its actually a strength of hers. She can do them unspotted on the high beam already, but I think she is a long ways off being able to do a BHS on beam so it would be nice if she could preserve her ability to go the BWO route. Thanks!

 

[raenndrops]

For Almost EVERY OTHER skill the girls do at our gym, it is 25 (25 kips, 25 cartwheels on beam, 25 Back extension rolls on floor). For BWO on beam, the limit is 10. They do "rock and rolls afterwards. When they do bridges in warm ups, the same thing - rock and rolls afterwards.
But that might just be us.

 

[Aussie_coach]

If she has a super flexible back, you do need to also consider other aspects of her strength and flexibility. Super flexible kids often do the skill with a lot of bending in the lumbar (lower) spine and not enough in the thoracic spine. This can lead to back pain and eventually stress fractures.

How is her shoulder flexibility? Have her lie down facing the floor and hold a skipping rope or stick with her hands together, with arms straight see how high she can lift the stick/rope, it should at least be last her ears. Also how is her hip flexor flexibility. Can she do flat splits sitting up straight with her hips square. If either of these areas are lacking, then the odds are she is putting lots of pressure on the lumbar spine. Which puts her at risk.

Those areas should be stretched independently, not in bridges as each time she does a bridge the stretch will go,
to her spine.

Also how is her glute strength? Have her lie on the floor, tuck one foot up near her bottom and put her knees together, put the other leg up in the air and have her lift her bottom up and down as high as she can, do this on both sides, can she easily do 10 each side without shaking, lifting it high. If not then the muscles that hold her core tight when she does a back walkover may be weaker, and hits can also be a problem.

It is pretty important to never ignore back pain. A lot of gymnasts (and even coaches) just say, oh a little back pain in gymnastics is normal. But, it should not be. Small amounts of back pain are the body telling you that something is not right, addressing it early on will save her big problems later. I would see a physio for a physical evanluation, especially one who has an understanding of gymnastics.

 

[bogwoppit]

If she has a super flexible back, you do need to also consider other aspects of her strength and flexibility. Super flexible kids often do the skill with a lot of bending in the lumbar (lower) spine and not enough in the thoracic spine. This can lead to back pain and eventually stress fractures.

How is her shoulder flexibility? Have her lie down facing the floor and hold a skipping rope or stick with her hands together, with arms straight see how high she can lift the stick/rope, it should at least be last her ears. Also how is her hip flexor flexibility. Can she do flat splits sitting up straight with her hips square. If either of these areas are lacking, then the odds are she is putting lots of pressure on the lumbar spine. Which puts her at risk.

Those areas should be stretched independently, not in bridges as each time she does a bridge the stretch will go,
to her spine.

Also how is her glute strength? Have her lie on the floor, tuck one foot up near her bottom and put her knees together, put the other leg up in the air and have her lift her bottom up and down as high as she can, do this on both sides, can she easily do 10 each side without shaking, lifting it high. If not then the muscles that hold her core tight when she does a back walkover may be weaker, and hits can also be a problem.

It is pretty important to never ignore back pain. A lot of gymnasts (and even coaches) just say, oh a little back pain in gymnastics is normal. But, it should not be. Small amounts of back pain are the body telling you that something is not right, addressing it early on will save her big problems later. I would see a physio for a physical evanluation, especially one who has an understanding of gymnastics.

This x 1000. Fractures last a lifetime, even after surgery and physio.

 

[andarc]

I agree that back pain shouldn't be ignored. When my DD was having pain (once we ruled out something serious), she was limited to 5. The rest of the team were doing 10. If she had any pain the number dropped to 0. Her fabulous coach monitored and would remind her to stop. She has slight scoliosis and the muscles on one side of the spinal cord were extremely tight. She now sees a pediatric chiropractor (who is a former gymnast) once a month and has exercises to strengthen those muscles. She has been back pain free for a few months and has gotten her bwo bhs. I think her coach still limits her.

 

[Amanda]

Thank you!

It's because of what I've already read on chalk bucket that I want to be really careful and proactive with her back.

I think her shoulder flexibility is good. I asked the physical therapist about it. I will try what you suggested aussie_coach to make sure. Her hips might not be so flexible- she's working on her splits- she has good leg splits, sometime has her bad leg splits after stretching, and is a little closer on middle splits but doesn't have them. I'm not exactly sure what "flat splits" are? All of her splits have required work.

I'll also check her glute strength. I suspect it's decent but I could be wrong. But maybe she could add what you suggested to the routine her p/t gave her.

I do think she does a lot of work from her lower back. The p/t tried to work with her to engage her entire core. I am hoping it has helped.

I think I will talk to her beam coach about how many BWOs she does. I know she did at least 20 the other night when she complained. Sounds like maybe 10 should be the max- or even less if her back is hurting.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to reply!

 

[bogwoppit]

20 is far too many beam BWO's, for any kid. That is exactly how baby Bog ended up injured. Just not worth it. Five is plenty for any kid.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Personally, I prefer to see them do 10 or less in practice, but I have seen them do more. When dd first competed L6 last year, she started having a little back discomfort from the back walkovers. I mentioned it to the coach and she worked with dd on it to modify the technique. She was hinging at a certain point in the BWO, putting too much stress on her lower back. Once coach corrected it and worked with her on using her shoulders more instead of her lower back, she had no more back pain.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Our gym is a 5 reps and done. Go do other things. They might come back for more but not more than reps per rotation

 

[Mamabear123]

The other day DD did about 10 BWO on the floor beam. Might be a stupid question but, is there any less stress on the back because it's lower? Or is a BWO just a BWO wherever it's done (regarding stress on the back)?

 

[duyetanh]

BWOs just suck, plain and simple. They are nasty, and unfortunately, unavoidable for the most part. I personally feel like zero should be the limit, but as that isn't possible, the cap for me would be 10.

 

[bogwoppit]

BWOs just suck, plain and simple. They are nasty, and unfortunately, unavoidable for the most part. I personally feel like zero should be the limit, but as that isn't possible, the cap for me would be 10.

I actually put the zero BWO's in place with my DD. Coaches complied. By then it was too late. She is now 21, had surgery, years of physio, keeps very fit, but back pain remains.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

DD has gotten to level 8 so far without a bwo on beam. She uses the back extension roll instead. her back extension into bhs combo scored very well in 7. Her shoulder flexibility isnt the best, and she hates bwos with a passio.

 

[Gymmom0824]

My daughter loves BWO it's her favorite skill. She was excited to finally get to do it on the beam this year.

 

[bogwoppit]

My daughter loves BWO it's her favorite skill. She was excited to finally get to do it on the beam this year.

It is not about loving them. Mine loved them too. It is about limiting the stress on the lower back to avoid life long pain and injuries.

 

[e'smum]

don't ignore that back pain and don't push it. one of the girls in our gym started off with that and couldn't compete beam last season as a 6 b/c she can no longer do BWO because of the back pain. she was refusing to do BHS. she did a BLO on floor. she's finally doing BHS on beam now and connected her series BHS/BHS last week. but she doesn't do BWO at all. she almost had to quit. the back pain is the worst with BWO.

my kid can't do a BWO on beam to save her life. she goes crooked. she does BHS. and her series will be BHS/BHS. honestly, if your dd back is bothering her, have her skip BWO and start working on BHS. my kid scored out of lvl 5 with a BHS. and did lvl 6 with one. i don't see the need for mine to do a BWO ever again, honestly. and i'm fine with that. seeing what her teammate went through was bad enough.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

If you have back pain then the number of BWO you do should be zero. Switch to BHS.

 

[Amanda]

Thanks again for all the responses. I really do hear you all about protecting her back. It's why I pushed for an MRI early (which was clear) on and physical therapy. She is working consistently to do the exercises recommended by her p/t. I wouldn't have know to do this without chalk bucket!

Do you really think that a small amount of back pain after 20 or more BWOs means she should already skip them all together? Or do you think it is reasonable to try cutting way back on the number and continuing to work on her form (trying to engage more than her lower back) and core strength and then carefully monitoring the pain? Last week was the first time she complained about any back pain in several months- since doing the p/t.

Thanks!

 

[andarc]

I think 20 is too many with or without pain. My dd now does a max of 10 (like the rest of the team.) If she experiences any pain she stops. She then focuses on her back exercises and takes a few days off of doing any bwos or bhs. Then she starts over. 3 for a few days, 5 for a few days, etc.

 

[Amanda]

Let me clarify- I definitely think 20 is too many! That's why I started this thread. I noticed she did at least that many on Friday and then had some pain After reading this, I was thinking of having her try 5 or 10- and then adjust accordingly. . I would like to find an amount she can do without pain- and if turns out that is 0, then she will just have to master the BHS on beam! =)