WAG When Is It Time To Quit Gym??

[GymMomK]

Don't push her to quit. It sounds like she still loves the sport and is dealing with a normal bump in the road. To be a level nine at her age is quite impressive.

Encourage her. Remind her the "blocks" are common and can be overcome. Let her have good days and bad days.

And when it does come time, do not let her "quit." Develop an exit strategy and retire gracefully. I firmly belief that children (and adults) should learn to finish out their commitment, whether that means finishing up summer training or finishing the season with your teammates. "Quitting" because you are having a bad day or week or month (or sometimes, year) is not a good strategy. Retiring when you are mentally and/or physically done and ready to participate in a new activity is a normal part of many people's path. So when it does come time, make a plan to finish our her commitment and give it her all, then reevaluate? Sometimes one bad week is all but forgotten about by the time the season is over.

I agree! If she does retire I'd like her to do so on good terms. Thanks for your encouragement!!

 

[GymMomK]

i don't see why quitting was even an option. Your daughter stated she loved gym and does not want to quit. She'd be more miserable if she quit. More importantly, as the good experienced coaches of this website have stated she will outgrow these fears (dunno). My daughter is was an 11 yo, L9, last season, training L10 this summer. About wo seasons (L8) ago she had some vestibular issues. She was training TOPS in L5 and L6/7. Her coach at the time only gave her three weeks before national testng to learn the skills. Well the consequences surfaced in the beginning of L8 season. She was accidentally twisting her whips, and layouts on floor and was getting disoriented. She lost her fulls. All year she was falling on her butt in the tumbling series on floor. By the end of L8 season, things started to click again. She made regionals, got 2nd in the AA and get this was the regional floor champion.

Secondly, we switched gyms in the early part of L9, this year. She loved her former coach and her teammates. It was traumatic. But after a few months, she started expressing feelings I was not aware of. She apparently had many fears at her former gym but hid it because she did not want to disappoint her coach. She said she just kept on doing whatever her coach told her but she was,always 'trembling' inside. After months with her new coach, she realized the situation/training tactics of her old coach were not standard. Her old coach just kept on trying to progress her faster and faster without fully preparing her. She feels more secure with her new coach and now has hardly any fears. She had bit her nails to the nubs for years. She has stopped biting her nails and they are actually growing long. She is progressing even more at her new gym.

My two points with this drawn out reply is that your daughter will outgrow her fears. And two, good coaches are vital in the success of each gymnast. Even the most talented gymnast cannot realize their full potential without the help of a great coach. I don't know what to do about your daughter's coaches as we too have limited choices in our area. But I would not give up on speaking with the coaches. But if your thoughts of having her quit stems out of the stress this is causing your family, then that is a different story.

Thanks! You are right! We should not quit, but it was causing quite a bit of stress. My husband and I had a long talk and we don't want her to quit, we understand that it is normal to have bumps in the road and we only want what is best for our dd. Gosh, if she did quit, she would be miserable and so would we It sounds like your move was a good one! Good luck to your dd!!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It could go away if it's handled correctly by everyone. At the same time it will spread and get worse if not handled correctly. What may of started as a Vestibular problem is now full on anxiety. Everyone needs to back off, stop talking about it, no punishments for not going, make sure parents are not in the gym etc..
Don't act or look concerned and most importantly remove all anxiety from her. IF she is expected to go level 10 next year, tell her coaches in private that this is not an option. Your coaches then need to tell her this, and you back them up. Your DD will probably not like this decision, but it will help her to calm down and at the same time put the ball BACK in her court. We as coaches go through this from time to time and it is very frustrating for all, especially for the child. Right now she thinks that there is something wrong with her, she thinks that this makes her abnormal, she is going to be very down on herself. My advice to you as both a parent of a gymnast and a coach, is to NOT talk about it at all. Just drop her off at the gym and pick her up. Give her a long weekend and do something as a family, but don't baby her, act normal (in other words, no extra hugs like something is wrong). She needs to feel normal again and she needs time to heal, and she needs to know that its not her fault,,,
Hope that helps...

 

[gymdog]

It could go away if it's handled correctly by everyone. At the same time it will spread and get worse if not handled correctly. What may of started as a Vestibular problem is now full on anxiety. Everyone needs to back off, stop talking about it, no punishments for not going, make sure parents are not in the gym etc..

This is a very important point. Just going back to basics is the best approach. I typically won't let a child attempt something that they aren't "throwing". Not for a long time, until they're begging to try it. They have to do some other progression hundreds of times. Every time they don't "go", the mental block is more solidified and they lose confidence. I ask them not to attempt or even climb on the equipment if they feel they truly cannot make themselves do it.

 

[GymMomK]

This is a very important point. Just going back to basics is the best approach. I typically won't let a child attempt something that they aren't "throwing". Not for a long time, until they're begging to try it. They have to do some other progression hundreds of times. Every time they don't "go", the mental block is more solidified and they lose confidence. I ask them not to attempt or even climb on the equipment if they feel they truly cannot make themselves do it.

This week we (me) decided that we needed a change and she's been working out with the lower level girls and A DIFFERENT COACH! She's still doing most of her skills and working on basics, too. She's been very happy even though she's not with her 'team'. This coach coached her at level 5 and knows her and her 'problems'. She's been fabulous with her and dd feels she's already making progress on certain things.
The only problem is her coach is totally snubbing her... She'll go back to her soon and I'm not sure how all that's going to work out.

 

[GymBee97]

Ok coaches need a clue but you aren't going to change them. I go with if my kid is telling me they love it and go to practice still loving it even though they are "stuck" and they have coaches that need some other way of doing things then why pull her. She is 11 you said she is going to get stuck several times over the next few years. As her body develops and changes she WILL even lose skills she always had. Its all part of growing up and doing gymnastics.

 

[gymdog]

This week we (me) decided that we needed a change and she's been working out with the lower level girls and A DIFFERENT COACH! She's still doing most of her skills and working on basics, too. She's been very happy even though she's not with her 'team'. This coach coached her at level 5 and knows her and her 'problems'. She's been fabulous with her and dd feels she's already making progress on certain things.
The only problem is her coach is totally snubbing her... She'll go back to her soon and I'm not sure how all that's going to work out.

Honestly, at 11, competing level 8 again or even level 7 wouldn't be bad at all. She could always go back to 9 the next year and train whatever skills, and compete a lower optional level. Again 11 is very young for level 9 unless she's planning to test elite next year. For a JO track, it just isn't necessary to compete level 9, and may be too much pressure to get certain skills. Taking the pressure off by letting her compete a lower level and understand she still has 7 years to reach the higher skills might make a huge difference in her outlook.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Just saw this thread. I'm trying to picture how talented your daughter must be to be 11 and a Level 9, and having a coach who doesn't have a clue how to help her weather a bump in the road. I guess they are just used to her constantly performing and excelling. They may actually have to put a little effort out to coach her through this! And she still loves it and wants to go, and she has a coach kicking her out of practice because she has developed some fears. I think it's great that she can take a step back with her old coach and get her confidence back. No hurry unless she wants to be elite. She's 11!!!

 

[GymMomK]

Honestly, at 11, competing level 8 again or even level 7 wouldn't be bad at all. She could always go back to 9 the next year and train whatever skills, and compete a lower optional level. Again 11 is very young for level 9 unless she's planning to test elite next year. For a JO track, it just isn't necessary to compete level 9, and may be too much pressure to get certain skills. Taking the pressure off by letting her compete a lower level and understand she still has 7 years to reach the higher skills might make a huge difference in her outlook.

You're right. She did 9 last year so she can go back to 8, but that would kill her. We've talked about it at length. The feared skills she would need in 8 anyway...

 

[GymMomK]

I guess they are just used to her constantly performing and excelling. They may actually have to put a little effort out to coach her through this!

Exactly!! She's VERY self motivated and pretty smart when it comes to body control, physics and all the things involved in gymnastics!

Elite is not a goal of hers. She's actually the highest level gymnast that gym has had. She's hoping for college

 

[CreateMagic]

What about competing as an event specialist and working with the coach she responds well to on the events she's struggling with until she gets through this block? Not ideal, but clearly her current coaches aren't ideal either--they don't know how to deal with what she's dealing with.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I hate to sound cynical, and I don't know them, but I think you should be mindful of the fact that if she is the best they have ever had, they may be pushing her unduly to make themselves look good. A little of the look, I got this kid to level 9 at age 10. I can coach high level kids, here is the proof. They may be pushing her for other reasons than just what is best for her. I may be way off, but as her mom, I would keep it in the back of my mind. Mama bear ready for anything. Protect your cub.

 

[GymMomK]

What about competing as an event specialist and working with the coach she responds well to on the events she's struggling with until she gets through this block? Not ideal, but clearly her current coaches aren't ideal either--they don't know how to deal with what she's dealing with.

I did ask about that and I got kind of a "wait and see" answer.

 

[gymdog]

Elite is not a goal of hers. She's actually the highest level gymnast that gym has had. She's hoping for college

Whoa, this is very relevant new information. What is the experience of the coaches like (i.e. were they high level gymnasts, did they coach at other gyms with high level gymnasts)? What are the other options in the area?

I would also let her (and them) know that you are okay with her just training for a season, to take off the pressure on both sides for being "ready" for anything in six months.

 

[GymMomK]

Whoa, this is very relevant new information. What is the experience of the coaches like (i.e. were they high level gymnasts, did they coach at other gyms with high level gymnasts)? What are the other options in the area?

I would also let her (and them) know that you are okay with her just training for a season, to take off the pressure on both sides for being "ready" for anything in six months.

No other options.
2 coaches were college gymnasts.

I asked dd if she would be willing to take off, but she said no. That may have to be a decision I make, though. Or maybe she can compete events she's comfortable with? She's been working her rear off so I hate to make her take off.

Shared vestibular info with hc. She tells me she called a sports psychologist to talk to him about it? We even have a speech pathologist parent I've talked to about the vestibular stuff and she studied it in grad school and she's totally in agreeance. Tell hc she can talk to her and she has yet to do that. She just thinks dd is a head case, which is partially true, but still...

 

[Gymsanity]

No other options.
2 coaches were college gymnasts.

I asked dd if she would be willing to take off, but she said no. That may have to be a decision I make, though. Or maybe she can compete events she's comfortable with? She's been working her rear off so I hate to make her take off.

Shared vestibular info with hc. She tells me she called a sports psychologist to talk to him about it? We even have a speech pathologist parent I've talked to about the vestibular stuff and she studied it in grad school and she's totally in agreeance. Tell hc she can talk to her and she has yet to do that. She just thinks dd is a head case, which is partially true, but still...

Must not be up to speed on
the 'vestibular' theory...... I don't see how if an athlete does a skill
numerous times a day, 4-6 days a week, and then has a mental block, that that
is somehow associated with the vestibular system. If they were to take some
time off and suddenly have a growth spurt, and then come back, I understand how
things are different with center of mass/gravity, proportionality, timing, PSF,
etc. But if they are doing the skill almost daily, I've found the effect of a
growth spurt to be negligibile as the vestibular system grows and changes along
with their growth. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't seen it. What I
have seen is when the girls get older they become more cognitive and can get a
bad case of the 'what if's.' (much worse than the flu!) 'What if I miss my
hands?', 'What if I hit my head?' 'What if I hit my feet?', etc. This can also
be caused or exacerbated by them having a wreck or even a near miss, or by
seeing someone else crash. I often have my girls put their backs to the
competition at a meet if the other teams are doing 'hairy scary' gymnastics. I
would rather have them look away and visualize their routines, as opposed to
having them gasping and saying 'I hope that doesn't happen to me!' Conversely,
if the other teams are doing amazing gymnastics, I have my girls watch and tell
me what makes 'those' girls so good, and what's stopping our girls from doing
the same or better.

I guess I would try and communicate with her and see what she feels is holding
her back.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks Dunno!! I know you said the series could be, didn't even think about the giants...
If it were you, what would you do as a coach?[/QUOTEi would give her the time and space to work independently to sort things out for herself. no pressure and no judging (not gymnastics judging).

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Must not be up to speed on
the 'vestibular' theory...... I don't see how if an athlete does a skill
numerous times a day, 4-6 days a week, and then has a mental block, that that
is somehow associated with the vestibular system. If they were to take some
time off and suddenly have a growth spurt, and then come back, I understand how
things are different with center of mass/gravity, proportionality, timing, PSF,
etc. But if they are doing the skill almost daily, I've found the effect of a
growth spurt to be negligibile as the vestibular system grows and changes along
with their growth. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't seen it. What I
have seen is when the girls get older they become more cognitive and can get a
bad case of the 'what if's.' (much worse than the flu!) 'What if I miss my
hands?', 'What if I hit my head?' 'What if I hit my feet?', etc. This can also
be caused or exacerbated by them having a wreck or even a near miss, or by
seeing someone else crash. I often have my girls put their backs to the
competition at a meet if the other teams are doing 'hairy scary' gymnastics. I
would rather have them look away and visualize their routines, as opposed to
having them gasping and saying 'I hope that doesn't happen to me!' Conversely,
if the other teams are doing amazing gymnastics, I have my girls watch and tell
me what makes 'those' girls so good, and what's stopping our girls from doing
the same or better.

I guess I would try and communicate with her and see what she feels is holding
her back.

the vestibular system is a part of the nervous system and brain and inner ear. it too needs time to mature...just as an organ, bone or muscle. and as those parts of the body are affected by daily life, so is the vestibular system. too many coaches take for granted just how complex the learning and retention of gymnastics is. and unfortunately in some humans, the VS has deficiencies that are inexplicable as well as idiopathic. and as i have stated before, the overwhelming majority of the kids that experience this issue are some of the fastest twitched athletes that you will ever see. and it is this, the athletes ability to generate extreme metrics of linear force, with then twisting, rotating and twisting with rotations that cause the problems. as i have posted before, 1 kid thinks their round off flip flop is traveling 100 mph and the other 10mph. but both are actually traveling 10 mph. so when the kid says they think they are going to "fast" and they feel like they will miss their hands (illogical) and hit their head, do you really think it is professional and appropriate to call that kid "stupid", "lazy" and "headcase" and all the other derogatory things that i have heard 1st person and by others? i call bull&^(%. and by the way, it is not a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_system

i edited just a bit cause now you got me started...but in essence, we are saying the same thing. it is just your misunderstanding of what you "think" you see vs. what is actually happening inside their bodies on any given day. as food for thought, what would be the explanation be for an athlete that HAS seen the worst crashes (and i'm leaving out here what some kids see weekly and some of what i had seen myself as an athlete) and still manages to forge ahead with no apparent confidence problems? there is an answer for this. i know what the several explanations are. and for most, it has nothing to do with what you might think. it's all about biology and neuroscience. and none of us are "hardwired" the same. and if i wasn't right (not to mention that i am pretty educated...not brag just fact) then why is it that we don't have as many gymnasts in the world as there are soccer players?

the sport is the hardest. athletes drawn to it are special as you find out much later once they have been given time to develop. and the sport comes with it a host of physical and mental demands not found in any other activity. think...just how many activities are there where the kids learn very early on that something "catastrophically" can happen to them if they don't have their head on straight every damn minute they train? think about it...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

No other options.
2 coaches were college gymnasts.

I asked dd if she would be willing to take off, but she said no. That may have to be a decision I make, though. Or maybe she can compete events she's comfortable with? She's been working her rear off so I hate to make her take off.

Shared vestibular info with hc. She tells me she called a sports psychologist to talk to him about it? We even have a speech pathologist parent I've talked to about the vestibular stuff and she studied it in grad school and she's totally in agreeance. Tell hc she can talk to her and she has yet to do that. She just thinks dd is a head case, which is partially true, but still...

hold on a moment. i adamantly disagree that your daughter is a head case. these problems are exacerbated by coaches who are inexperienced and under educated. so then, let's cut her some slack in labeling her as a head case. it's just not true.

 

[Gymsanity]

Thanks dunno for the response and link. I believe I'm fairly familiar with the vestibular system and how it relates to gymnastics, I just didn't see the connection with it and the 'blocks' that the OP's DD was having. Not at all suggesting that may not be it, just saying I've never seen it in girls that work their skills everyday while they grow, but hey, life and gymnastics are weird at times.