MAG When to pull the plug and SWITCH gyms.

[midwestgymcoach]

wow. interesting first couple of posts...midwestgymcoach....

Anyway, there easily could be a personality or style conflict. That does happen. What score does he have to get to score out of 7? (I am so glad we don't have to deal wtih that!)

When is the mock meet? I hope things go well!

Midwestcoach, I have been posting for a long time. My son has been dealing with major injuries, surgery and it has been a long road to recovery. Coach has been aware every step of the way with a rather blank face, like he has no idea what to do. Chalkbucket also has been very supportive. My son has been through a lot. More physical therapy than most 13 yo. When there is an issue, we always assume it's the kid.....
I have been one of the major advocates at our gym for the coach. I have a close relationship with both DS and DD. I have had many meetings....
When DS began having attitude problems, we immediately took a look at DS. I demanded utmost respect to coach, explained to him there was a method to his coaching. That all DS needed to do was what coached asked of him. He needs to work hard.
From the 4 years DS has been with this coach I have noticed that he seems to do well with little kids. Not ones that have an opinion, or ones that may question his strategy, he is inflexible and does things his way. There is no one older than 13 on the team.
I started to become suspicious about 2 months ago, and it hit me that it takes two to tango! My son gets the wrap!
If a teacher, no matter what kind, cannot understand that teenagers question, push, test, and that they are growing up, and especially need support, then this is someone who has trouble with teens. Coach has made no secret about it too. He has clearly said many times that he does not like teenagers.......that is his precedent, not mine.

Sometimes there is a point when even young men decide they do not want to train with a limited coach. And when I say limited, I am not saying bad, I am saying limited.
I pay to have my son learn gymnastics. He is not progressing or thriving and above all he has a poor role model. Someone who he spends more time with than his own father....that's where I fail as a parent.
Thanks Midwestcoach, you have just reiterated all that is bothering me about current gym. You could even be my DS coach.

To everyone else, thanks for supporting and listening. Our family will see what happens and decide in a couple of weeks. I would never burn a bridge though, so if we leave, it would be humbly and thankfully.

Ok, what kind of score is he saying that your DS needs at the mock meet? Is it a 70, 72 or 80? Because if that's the type of score he's expecting, then I would say 'yes' the coach is being unreasonable and setting him up for failure, especially after major injuries and surgery. By just saying he needs a 'certain score,' it's a vague statement. What is the score he needs?

He's battling back from injury, are his skills up to par yet?

I can empathize with the recovery period. Sometimes it's two weeks, other times it's supposed to be a few weeks and ends up taking months. I will, once again, reiterate that coaches are not doctors and PTs. What has been the recovery process? Has the doctor or PT sent home exercises that he should be doing? This is happening in my gym now. My athlete has/had a knee issue. He goes to PT 3x per week for an hour (MWF). On T and TH he doesn't have PT but he has exercises printed out that he brought with him from the therapist that does. So, he comes to the gym about 45 min early and gets his therapy done with me watching over him. He is also 13. He wants very much to be a great gymnast, so he's busting his butt to get back to where he was before the injury.

What is it that you want from the coach? You said that he rules with an iron fist. What exactly is he doing or saying? You said he's using humiliation, hypocrisy, and punishments. What exactly is he doing?

Has he ever worked with teenage boys before? Is your son the only teen on the team?

Ok, on a previous post you have said this coach was douchey, now you're calling him limited and a poor role model. Instead of name-calling and slandering this coach, why haven't you left yet? If there is so much anguish, why stay?

I think we are looking at this from two perspectives, coach and parent. There has to be some sort of common ground you, your DS, and the coach can come to.

 

[munchkin3]

Skscklag, I agree. And I a sure it will come to fruition soon.
As for PT, yes he has been doing PT and we need to get back to the Dr for follow up. The exercises that were given have not been followed in the gym at all. Coach knows what the condition is. The PT even spoke to coach.
We had a discussion a few weeks ago with coach about the mental tactics of humiliation and the director gently guided coach away from this type of coaching......

He is no where near competitive form. I have no idea why my son is even trying to score out of anything. He has 0 confidence and no one there to help build him back up.

Please understand, I am not trying to malign a coach and there is a reason I am venting here, and never mentioned the state or name!.....but this happened before with this coach. The family had to leave the gym because the coach and kid did not get along. The coach blamed the kid. Another kid just left, with no reason. Family just said, ok that's it.....coach glossed over it like a bump in the road.
DS is 13 and there are several others.....all of which he has begun to have issues with. Some are quitting. Others are moving along fine with some minor behavior issues.
I just don't want it to happen to me! Or my son! This is his home, and I really wish the captain of the ship was more capable of dealing with teenagers!!!! Thanks all.
Mock meet is soon....I'll let you know how it goes but for right now, I'm planning a little 1 month break from gymnastics, and then we can re visit. He can stay or go. I'll leave it up to him.

 

[profmom]

Midwestcoach, ordinarily your perspective would be taken quite seriously and echoed by some of the parents and coaches, but there is a history here. We are not talking one minor injury that took a few months of reduced activity to rehab. This kid loves gymnastics and has fought hard to remain in the sports in a battle that's been uphill all the way for the last few years. If he can manage to stay in the sport through the tail end of the recovery period, he will move on and prosper. But humiliation and lack of respect from his coach could well push him out. This is not about setting high standards and holding a kid to them and dealing with disappointment compassionately when he can't meet them. If that were the frame, this conversation would not be happening.

 

[midwestgymcoach]

Skscklag, I agree. And I a sure it will come to fruition soon.
As for PT, yes he has been doing PT and we need to get back to the Dr for follow up. The exercises that were given have not been followed in the gym at all. Coach knows what the condition is. The PT even spoke to coach.
We had a discussion a few weeks ago with coach about the mental tactics of humiliation and the director gently guided coach away from this type of coaching......

He is no where near competitive form. I have no idea why my son is even trying to score out of anything. He has 0 confidence and no one there to help build him back up.

Please understand, I am not trying to malign a coach and there is a reason I am venting here, and never mentioned the state or name!.....but this happened before with this coach. The family had to leave the gym because the coach and kid did not get along. The coach blamed the kid. Another kid just left, with no reason. Family just said, ok that's it.....coach glossed over it like a bump in the road.
DS is 13 and there are several others.....all of which he has begun to have issues with. Some are quitting. Others are moving along fine with some minor behavior issues.
I just don't want it to happen to me! Or my son! This is his home, and I really wish the captain of the ship was more capable of dealing with teenagers!!!! Thanks all.
Mock meet is soon....I'll let you know how it goes but for right now, I'm planning a little 1 month break from gymnastics, and then we can re visit. He can stay or go. I'll leave it up to him.

Look, I probably came on too strong. I cannot, however, overlook the fact that you've glossed over answering some basic questions. What is the score the DS needs? If it's some ridiculous score, then I will happily apologize here on this public forum. Numbers, however, don't lie. You know, I've noticed that people have responded on this topic are mostly parents. Of course they're going to have a more sympathetic ear. I like to hear all facts and both sides, but that will not happen.

On Wednesday, you basically posted an ad looking for a coach in FL...the thread reads: Coach needed....Florida. Don't tell me you haven't mentioned the state. Also, it says you are from Florida. Anyway.....Then, you say gym is going through some reshuffling, 401k, etc. and ask for people to private message you for an inquiry. If you're not apart of the admin staff, or the owner, or head coach, or director, probably should not post such things. Anyway...

Everything you say is pretty vague, from the score to the therapy. I am having a hard time understanding everything. Because if I were the parent and I did not like the situation and my child was feeling this anguish, I would have already been gone.

Some coaches believe that the therapy should be done with the therapist. I have a different point of view on that. I don't think there are many physical therapist that would object to more rehabilitation, especially in a sport like gymnastics. We use rehab exercises as more of a prehab/preventative measure. Also, DS is 13, isn't he old enough to know what to do without the coach? What is his icing and stretching routine like for the injury?

 

[midwestgymcoach]

Midwestcoach, ordinarily your perspective would be taken quite seriously and echoed by some of the parents and coaches, but there is a history here. We are not talking one minor injury that took a few months of reduced activity to rehab. This kid loves gymnastics and has fought hard to remain in the sports in a battle that's been uphill all the way for the last few years. If he can manage to stay in the sport through the tail end of the recovery period, he will move on and prosper. But humiliation and lack of respect from his coach could well push him out. This is not about setting high standards and holding a kid to them and dealing with disappointment compassionately when he can't meet them. If that were the frame, this conversation would not be happening.

I can empathize with where you're coming from. However, you are only getting one side of this issue. As a coach, this hits home for me. I am sure all coaches have dealt with something like this.

Last year, I had a mom going to everyone complaining about me. The only issue is, she never came to me. I was hearing all this stuff from other coaches and other parents. It became like a game of telephone. When I confronted her (asked for a meeting with her and the owner) she played coy and had no idea what I was talking about. Come to find out, she felt he wasn't progressing as fast and she thought I was ignoring him. I told when I have 15-20 kids on my own, some things will get missed. I also told her that at 14 I cannot stand over him to make sure he's doing his proper rehab all the time. At some point, kids/teens have to take responsibility I was not ignoring her son, btw. I apologized and it wasn't enough, they left. The son, however, did not want to leave. Back in January, she brought him back. He was even further behind.

As a coach, many hats have to be worn. It's hard to be perfect and please everyone and I feel that's what a lot of parents want. Every parent feels their kid is special, trust me, I have a 4 year old. No one is more special than he.

 

[profmom]

But remember that you're relatively new to this community. Trust me, a lot of folks here are pretty good at sussing out the unreliable narrators. By my read, Munchkin isn't one of them.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and as i stated, some coaches are no good with kids after 12 years of age. and Munchkin's kid has been thru quite a bit.

unfortunately for this boy, there are not hundreds of gyms to go to like the girls. and when boys find a "home" they are usually the last to leave. completely different than the girls.

 

[munchkin3]

Thanks everyone.....really, sometimes this is the only place to vent. Nice and anonymous. The gym posting if on behalf of another gym owner who I am friends with. Whatever I receive that seems compelling I pass it along....that's not the issue here.

I have no problem expressing any of this directly to the coach and I have in the past. After all, we are adults, and he has had some choice words for me, and my son and my family etc. this can be a very emotional sport for everyone.
I go back to the basic point. My son loves gymnastics and wants to continue no matter what. He has gone through a lot. He is hanging on. He is willing to go anywhere.

Form the business side, I pay for my child to learn. The gym needs participants to run the program. The teacher must teach and for the most part, have progress and success in his/her program. My child needs to arrive on time, be ready to learn and listen to the coach. If the child is having a problem, the parent needs to take care of it. If the coach is having a problem, then ?????(I will assume the owner talks to the coach)

If children are not making through the terrible teens in this program then either an additional coach needs to be added, or the current one needs to be replaced, OR coach must adjust, expand, learn, mature, etc.....
I am not getting into scoring, and skills etc. because this is work in progress, and coach has his plan. I am not confident in his plan, but I am allowing him to do his thing, (and my son). We will see what happens.
I have learned one thing in 7 years in this sport. Leave it up to the coach. Question only when necessary. This is what I am doing. If it works out, I will not change my opinion that coach can be douchy, manipulative and immature. But I also believe that all people learn and improve with time. I just don't want my son to suffer in his own desire to do gymnastics, while limited coach finds a way to coach teenagers.
Maybe dunno knows better, he seems to have been around a while, some people are incapable of teaching teens.
Again, we will see how the mock meet goes.

 

[midwestgymcoach]

But remember that you're relatively new to this community. Trust me, a lot of folks here are pretty good at sussing out the unreliable narrators. By my read, Munchkin isn't one of them.

Thanks everyone.....really, sometimes this is the only place to vent. Nice and anonymous. The gym posting if on behalf of another gym owner who I am friends with. Whatever I receive that seems compelling I pass it along....that's not the issue here.

I have no problem expressing any of this directly to the coach and I have in the past. After all, we are adults, and he has had some choice words for me, and my son and my family etc. this can be a very emotional sport for everyone.
I go back to the basic point. My son loves gymnastics and wants to continue no matter what. He has gone through a lot. He is hanging on. He is willing to go anywhere.

Form the business side, I pay for my child to learn. The gym needs participants to run the program. The teacher must teach and for the most part, have progress and success in his/her program. My child needs to arrive on time, be ready to learn and listen to the coach. If the child is having a problem, the parent needs to take care of it. If the coach is having a problem, then ?????(I will assume the owner talks to the coach)

If children are not making through the terrible teens in this program then either an additional coach needs to be added, or the current one needs to be replaced, OR coach must adjust, expand, learn, mature, etc.....
I am not getting into scoring, and skills etc. because this is work in progress, and coach has his plan. I am not confident in his plan, but I am allowing him to do his thing, (and my son). We will see what happens.
I have learned one thing in 7 years in this sport. Leave it up to the coach. Question only when necessary. This is what I am doing. If it works out, I will not change my opinion that coach can be douchy, manipulative and immature. But I also believe that all people learn and improve with time. I just don't want my son to suffer in his own desire to do gymnastics, while limited coach finds a way to coach teenagers.
Maybe dunno knows better, he seems to have been around a while, some people are incapable of teaching teens.
Again, we will see how the mock meet goes.

But remember that you're relatively new to this community. Trust me, a lot of folks here are pretty good at sussing out the unreliable narrators. By my read, Munchkin isn't one of them.

Profmom, you're right. I am new. However, not new to Chalkbucket. I am new to having a profile and commenting. I've used Chalkbucket for a few years now to look for new techniques to better myself as a coach and my gymnast. If I am no good, then it reflects in my athletes. If one of my athletes is having an issue with a skill or a mental block, I go to many lengths to try to help. For example, I look at Chalkbucket, YouTube, old tapes/dvds (because who uses VHS tapes anymore, lol.), consult other coaches, etc. what ever I may need to do.

Back to the subject at hand. I just feel there are inconsistencies with what she is saying. One minute her DS and DD coaches are great, then the next they're terrible. This is a public forum so she is allowed to post/say what ever she wants. I, in turn, can question her. I wouldn't go into the parents forum and blast parents. She was upset about a score for a mock meet, now she won't comment on the score. She said that she was posting about a friend that owns a gym. The post, however, says HER gym is reshuffling.

Coaches needed.....Florida
"I am not a coach, but our program is going through some reshuffling.
We need new coaches due to a retirement. Full benefits, and 401k.
sorry if i should not post this here.
PM, me"

Like I said before, she is allowed to post what ever she wants. I just wouldn't post videos. In today's world of social media, YouTube, etc., someone could easily figure out what gym and what coaches. Therefore, maligning them in the gymnastics community.

 

[munchkin3]

The only thing I am upset about is that my son is having trouble with his coach. That's it. I wish he could continue to learn to the best of his ability with a teacher who is capable of understanding where he is in his young life. I am sorry Midwestcoach is I have upset you but this is a place for all kinds of venting, or advice, learning....
I hear your dislike for my problem and of course I am not going to get specific. Actually I now will be even more vague at fear of hurting anyone. So I won't.

With this, I take my problem elsewhere.....sorry if I have offended anyone.

Thanks for all of you who have sympathized. I appreciate the vote of confidence....I will need it.

 

[GYM0M]

The only thing I am upset about is that my son is having trouble with his coach. That's it. I wish he could continue to learn to the best of his ability with a teacher who is capable of understanding where he is in his young life. I am sorry Midwestcoach is I have upset you but this is a place for all kinds of venting, or advice, learning....
I hear your dislike for my problem and of course I am not going to get specific. Actually I now will be even more vague at fear of hurting anyone. So I won't.

With this, I take my problem elsewhere.....sorry if I have offended anyone.

Thanks for all of you who have sympathized. I appreciate the vote of confidence....I will need it.

What about having your 13 yo son ask for a meeting with his coach? Maybe even not a formal meeting, maybe pizza or something where they can talk and maybe learn more about each other outside of gymnastics or something where the tension is off and they are just having a conversation? It could work, but other than that, I have no idea....so sorry!!

 

[Shoebug]

I have two basic thoughts on this subject. Both may be WAY off, but it's what came to mind

1) Boys at this age are in the testing phase, trying to get away with what they can. Often times, a firm voice/figure is needed to stabalize the situation and keep the child on task. This coach's teaching strategy may not coincide with your parenting style, but are you trying to parent the child or have him coached to a higher capability?

2) One thing I like about gymnastics in general is it teaches kids that not everyone wins.... there are no participation medals for life. You already stated that you have tried to tell your son that he will have to deal with people like this in his life.... think of the coach not as your son's boss, but as his business partner. Both are putting effort and time into the venture, and if one does not do enough, the venture will fail. With that in mind, not every business venture runs smoothly. Your son has the major investment here (instead of money, it's time and energy), and the coach is running the business how he feels it should be run.