Parents When to scratch an event?

[Deleted member 10727]

This is really a questions for coaches, but parents might know this, too.

What is the circumstances in which a coach will have a gymnast scratch an event? Injury is obvious, Are there other times?

The reason I ask: I have posted on here that my son has a mental block on back tumbling. It's become an all encompassing focus with his coach at gym. Originally, before the competition season started, he said he would have my son scratch floor if he didn't get his ROBHS to whatever back, and when I asked why, he told me it would motivate my son. I know my son. He is not unmotivated in the slightest. I brought it up to the coach before meet season and said that I would like it if my kid could do the floor. I asked if it was a safety issue, and he said no, but the motivation! I asked that he please be allowed to do floor if he wants to do floor at competitions. I don;t care if he gets a 5. The back tumbling is not all there is to the routine. I pay for 6 events and I want to see 6 events. He isn't hurt. The coach agreed.

The first meet he scratched my son. My son balked (I have come to hate that word) during warm up and the coach scratched him in front of everyone. My son was crushed. And he didn't magically gain the back tumbling from being motivated. I admit to sending a very strongly worded msg to the coach, and I was upset because he told me he would not scratch him.
The next meet was a home meet, and my son competed floor. It was gorgeous. Beautiful lines. He couldn't do his back tumbling but he would try and move on to the next part. I loved it. And he was calm. He got a 5.5.

The next meet was last weekend, and the coach scratched him. This was not a home meet. He told my husband afterwards that my son balked (ugh) all last week, and he scratched him. He said it was a safety issue. I asked my son if he'd fallen or landed on his head or anything, and he looked taken aback and said no. The coach also told my husband that he may be scratched all season. Can I get some advice on if this is appropriate? I would be happy to briefly share his floor video here if it helps.

 

[raenndrops]

Some coaches have a philosophy that a gymnast has to demonstrate ALL the skills in practice or they scratch the event.

There are even YMCA teams that have a rule like that (we compete against a team that will allow 1 "gimme", but the gymnast has to be attempting the skill in practice).

Some coaches are in the "no spotting at meets" camp. They think either that the gymnasts will become dependent on the spot and others just want their gymnastics to go for it (knowing they can do it and the spot is just a security blanket).
Other coaches let them compete as long as they can compete safely (that's our philosophy).

 

[Deleted member 10727]

I am trying to understand why I am paying for meets with 6 events, training all year for 6 events, if my son can't compete them all. Nothing about a spot was mentioned, so I don't think that is an issue. It could be he does it with a spot at gym, but I doubt it. Obviously it has not made a difference either way. This is affecting all of his other events, and his confidence. He is starting to give up and I really feel this is a case of not meeting expectations and embarrassment for the coach. But instead of assuming that, I thought I would ask here first.

 

[auswi]

I am a parent of both a MAG & a WAG gymy.

They gain many, many positives from their sport...only a few from competition.

My understanding ( & as a parent not a coach) is that baulking/ fear issues are like an injury-they need time to heal.

The best gift we can give our gymnasts IMHO is that of belief in them -that they are doing their best, their 'value' is not competition dependant ( therefore if 5 events are competed not 6 so be it).

And ironically if pressure is taken off the gymnast from all concerned this is the fastest way to healing.

So in the big picture will it really matter if a gymnast doesn't compete floor as long as they are training it in practise?

OP frustrating as it is, the best approach is really to leave it to the coach- because if the coach had followed the original plan of not competing floor, most of the pressure would be off your gymnast.

It is hard navigating the tricky gymnastic seas - my best advice is chocolate & wine -not necessarily in that order

Good luck.

 

[munchkin3]

As previous poster- I have a boy and a girl and have many years in this crazy sport. I can understand how it seems like such a big deal right now and that he will never get over it. It feels like it. I promise to your son it's 100x worse!

What is the big deal about scratching in the grand scheme of gymnastics? So what? He should definitely scratch because it is causing the block to get worse. No amount of yelling, of threatening will make him do it. He will do it when he is ready. I have seen many kids quit over block because of pressure and the kid concludes they are not cut out for gymnastics and they quit.

Blocks are part of the sport and EVERY gymnast has had one! You have to teach him through it, teach him a strategy.......remove the skill, don't discuss it, bring it up, nothing. (Important, make sure he does not perceive it as punishment, but rather a prescriptive solution) Explain to your son it's something his brain needs to work out and he WILL with some time.
For my family, we removed the skill for a while and then broke the skill down mechanically and slowly started again with spots etc......When he is ready to work on it, bring it back to 0, as if he was learning from the beginning. Start from scratch again and he will get it back quickly. Not to mention, right now im sure the last thing your son wants to do is back tumbling right? I bet that after a few weeks of 'no tumbling' he will start to want to do it.............
If I were you, I would discuss this with the coach and get on the same page and give him time. Unless the coach has a better method?
No amount of 'forcing' him will fix it........explain to your son that scratching is not to punish him.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Compete safely and control their emotions seem to be the two rules our coaches use. Like even if a kid my fall off on a beam skill 5 out of 10 times, if that fall isn't going to be dangerous, they will let them go for it. If the gymnast is likely to start crying or freaking out over fear issues, even when they can do the skill 10/10 times when they do go for it, our coaches will make them scratch. Usually attitude at warm-up determines this. Sometimes when the fear is really bad in practice they will be told ahead of time that they are scratching the event. In the case of optionals, sometimes the fear provoking or suddenly inconsistent skill will be replaced with an easier skill - this scratch vs. downgrade decision kind of depends on how key the skill is for the level too.

 

[AgingHippie]

Our gym rule is if you can't compete all skills in an event without a spot you will scratch. Basically they feel you are not competition ready so you don't compete.

I understand your frustration but I think you will find this is very common.

I hope DS gets it worked out soon.

 

[profmom]

DD competed bars twice last year. If she could not meet the minimum threshold the coaches set for competing the event, she was scratched. Having that threshold there and known in advance took a lot of the emotion and tension out of it for her. I hope his backwards woes improve soon. I know it has been a long hard road for you guys.

 

[skschlag]

Honestly, i think the issue here isn't the scratching, but the way he is scratched. If the coach sat him down and told him that he wanted to take the pressure off by not having him do floor, and then actually coached him through the issue, that would be one thing. I honestly think I would be ok with that. However, yelling, berating, refusing to help, and then adding pressure by telling him that if he balks even once in warmups he is scratched, is not helping. So now you have a kiddo that is stressed about his back tumbling and has the added stress of a coach yelling and not helping him through it.

 

[AgingHippie]

Honestly, i think the issue here isn't the scratching, but the way he is scratched. If the coach sat him down and told him that he wanted to take the pressure off by not having him do floor, and then actually coached him through the issue, that would be one thing. I honestly think I would be ok with that. However, yelling, berating, refusing to help, and then adding pressure by telling him that if he balks even once in warmups he is scratched, is not helping. So now you have a kiddo that is stressed about his back tumbling and has the added stress of a coach yelling and not helping him through it.

Yes, I agree with this 100%. I wasn't aware all that was going on. Sorry this is being handled this way.

 

[profmom]

Honestly, i think the issue here isn't the scratching, but the way he is scratched. If the coach sat him down and told him that he wanted to take the pressure off by not having him do floor, and then actually coached him through the issue, that would be one thing. I honestly think I would be ok with that. However, yelling, berating, refusing to help, and then adding pressure by telling him that if he balks even once in warmups he is scratched, is not helping. So now you have a kiddo that is stressed about his back tumbling and has the added stress of a coach yelling and not helping him through it.

Agree with this 1000%. At my kids' gym, they do not go to meets not knowing whether or not they will be competing on events. And scratching should never be done as a punitive thing -- it should be framed as something to help the athlete by taking pressure off. DD has a teammate who is a fantastic L9 this year who never would have made it past L6 without that kind of patience and non-charged decisionmaking when she was having trouble with her back walkover on beam. She scratched beam more than she competed it that year, but because of the way it was handled, she was able to work through and ultimately past the block. If scratching is used right, it can be really positive.

Can you follow up with your son and the coach to see how it was handled this time around? Not a fan of what happened at the first meet. I do have to say though that balking is a concern -- he really cannot reinforce that into a habit and be successful in the long run. I hope the coach will dial him back to skills that he can finish reliably and try to build up gradually from there in a supportive and encouraging way.

 

[gymmomx2]

skschlag hit the nail on the head.

 

[LTB~Mom]

Our gymnasts scratch an event if they cannot perform ALL required skills safely and consistently. A girl would scratch on floor if she could not do the back tumbling or scratch on beam if she had a block on bwo/bhs, for example. Our coaches will scratch the gymnast if they are balking in warm ups or they feel it's an unsafe situation for them to compete.

 

[sce]

I think scratching could be the right call, but not the way it's being done. There needs to be clear expectations and a clear plan for what is best to help the gymnast. It would be great if the coach knew how to deal with blocks. This last minute scratching as "motivation" makes no sense.

 

[gracyomalley]

Not much to add except to wholeheartedly agree that long term the scratch can be a positive thing if it takes the pressure off, but I doubt there's a gymnast out there who has suddenly gotten over a block because of being "punished" like your son perceives he is being...

Just for the record - DD back tumbling issues, which were partially vestibular, completely resolved when pressure was gone. Unfortunately for her that meant quitting gym completely but she back tumbles daily at cheer...including BHS whip LO...and has worked on new backwards skills there - on no mat in shoes with coaches she knows can't help her or spot her. FEAR and physical ability or desire were never the issue, apparently...what was an issue for her was growth, confidence (which her head coach was good at understanding all along) and the overwhelming sense the the coaches and team mates thought she was a terrible gymnast....

I say this for 2 reasons - 1. scratching not bad if done in a supportive way, but harmful if it singles the child (coaches need to remember they are CHILDREN) with the block out in a punitive way. 2. some kids (DD included) will take even good intentions from coaches "the wrong way" if they are already beating themselves up and in the end may not be "emotionally" cut out for this sport, even if they are physically gifted at it...

Lastly, DS the elder has been doing a lovely double back landed well on mats in the pit for a couple of months. His coach told me that he does it well 9 out of 10 times, but on number 10 seems to "get lost" and flails about. Coach said "I know he wants to compete his double back, but I don't want him to do it on floor until I don't see him doing that...for safety." Coach asked me if I was ok with that (I of course was and was very impressed with the coach for explaining himself to me...I don't need DS breaking his neck for gymnastics - LOL). He's not scratching floor, though, he's doing his routine without that skill. His start value is low because of that (for L8) and he scores about 11s....but he trusts his coach, I trust his coach and he's out there enjoying gym and learning....

 

[Sasha]

I have followed your son's story and I'm so sorry the coach doesn't seem to be finding the right way to work with his tumbling block.

As for the scratching alone, I also have a WAG and a MAG child, and both programs do have the policy that a gymnast needs to demonstrate all skills safely and consistently in the week preceding, as well as in the warmup, to compete the event. Otherwise the event is scratched. There is no spotting permitted in the routine, and there is no omitting. The logic given to us does sound similar to what you wrote - in that it is supposed to 'motivate' the gymnast to work hard to get her/his skills, and is 'rewarded' by being able to compete the routine. I am generally in favor of their approach for normally-progressing kiddos, as they do usually 'get' the missing skill by mid-season, and the day they get to compete is like a 'celebration' (and they are over the moon with pride), but...

However! This rule is in place primarily for the gymnast 'working on next skills' , and I have seen it broken often for gymnasts who have been dealing with injury (particularly an ongoing injury). A gymnast slowly working back to tumbling due to a wrist injury, for example, has been able to compete floor but omit a tumbling pass, or a gymnast with a leg issue has been able to compete bars but omit the dismount. This has been used for gymnasts who have (in the past) solidly had the skills, but unfortunately are limited at the moment. Typically, I've seen these gymnasts scratch events early in the season (per policy), but as the season goes on and the injury remains, coaches begin to let them compete without skills so the whole season isn't a bust.

The mental block your son has, to me, seems to fall in this latter category of 'injured' gymnasts. Perhaps if a block newly presents, it might make sense to scratch to work through the block and take off the pressure, but as the season goes on and it's clear this 'injury' is going to persist, I think it is better to ask the gymnast what he feels - to compete without the skill vs. scratch, and make the plan clear in advance. Does your son want to compete floor and omit the skill? Or would he prefer to scratch the event?

I don't necessarily think the "I pay for 6 events" logic is the right reasoning to use with the coach, though, as there are genuine reasons why a child would not compete all 6 (or 4 for WAG). I'd skip that part.

I really hope you and your coach can come to a better understanding of how to move forward.

 

[mommyof1]

About half of the first-year L3 girls on my daughter's team scratched bars the first meet or two because their bar skills were not deemed to be sufficiently reliable. They knew they were scratching ahead of time and warmed up as if they were competing, then scratched. It was framed as "competing all four events is a big achievement, so every gymnast should be proud when she is ready to compete AA," not "those of you who aren't ready to compete bars are failing." Parents were told that the determination of when a kid was ready to compete bars was individualized, based partly on how each girl reacted to the type of pressure inherent in a meet situation, and calculated to produce a positive meet experience for each kid.

The coaches will supposedly decide to scratch a kid on meet day if things are going horribly wrong in warm-ups, although I have never actually seen it happen. At one or two meets, my daughter was on notice that if her vault warm-up looked unsafe, she would be scratched.

I have observed zero spotting at meets and assume that this is gym policy. Several girls with unsafe ROBHSs have been permitted to compete floor with just a RO-rebound.

Bottom line, the primary articulated goal at my daughter's gym is to maximize the chances of a safe and positive competition experience for each child, not to use the threat of scratching as a motivational tool. Re. the "I pay for X events, why isn't my kid competing all of them?" concern, girls are expected to compete if they are competition-ready on 3 events, but if a child is competition-ready on only 2 events, then the parent can opt out of the meet.

 

[duyetanh]

Bottom line, it is the coaches decision on what events are done. But this said, there are different ways of handling it. I am sorry for what your son is going through.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Absolutely, but the way it was approached as, do it in warm up and maybe you can, is too much pressure! There is more to this story, but I will leave it...

 

[MILgymFAM]

I agree that it is all about how it's handled. I think that balking is scary to coaches because it can lead to injury, which I understand, but a kid who isn't ready in practices is likely to have issues at a meet. Heck my DD got in trouble for balking at her last meet- on a skill she had literally done 3-4 times before the competition. Ever. Scratches are also handled poorly (IMO) at my DDs gym. They are dangled as a threat all the time and wielded almost arbitrarily. I'm sorry your son is having a rough time and I hope he gets back to where he wants to be quickly. I hope that you and the coaches can have a discussion about how to best help your son. I agree with the others though, that the money isn't really the issue here.