Coaches When to spot---or not?

[JBS]

She came home last night totally defeated. Said she had been "kicked off vault." Asked why and she said the coach said her vaults were "scary to watch." She was not told what she was doing wrong(she thinks buckling her knees on the board) and then was told to go do extra strength. Asked her where the coach was while they were vaulting and she said sitting over on a pile of mats. Then she and another girl had to do 15 rope climbs because they wouldn't do their series on regular beam. The other girl was crying the whole time she was climbing the rope. Great---now punishment for not doing a skill correctly.

At this point, you must talk to the coach. Every coach here will tell you the same thing. This seems to be a two way street. You and your daughter are not happy, neither is the coach. Do some talking, ask for a meeting with the coach.

Gymnastics can be hard on all parties involved, not just gymnasts and their parents. Coaches sometimes lose site of what is important. Once again, talk with your coach....keep the meeting positive.

As a coach, I always try to "be the professional". On the other hand, as a parent, I always try to "be the professional" also.

Schedule the meeting when their is ample time. Not right after practice when you and the coach could possibly be on edge.

 

[hammy]

I agree with JBS, talk to the coach in private (you, your daughter and the coach). If nothing is resolved it probably wouldn't hurt to look at other gyms. Try to stay positive and look for something positive in every situtation.

 

[ACoach78]

Without being in the situation, I'm not going to pass judgment.

However, I will offer an opinion.

My philosophy on spotting is to spot as a means of teaching the right shapes/positions. As far as doing the entire skill for a kid, I try to do that as little as possible. Now, there are certain skills, particular on bars (i.e. front hip circles, mill circles, etc. etc.) where there are so few lead-ups that you pretty much have to spot the entire skill over and over and over.

One of the things that I see amongst gymnastics coaches are few who are truly great teachers. It's one thing to be a "coach." It's entirely another thing to be one who can truly teach the sport or any sport for that matter. In my experience across numerous gyms, few coaches have a great understanding of the proper progressions and lead-ups for teaching skills. Furthermore, few truly have an appreciation for the amount of time that certain progressions take. It might take 500 reps of a single progression for a gymnast to get it right. Suppose you did 10 per day for five days a week. That's roughly two months on a single drill. I've run into coaches who will do a drill for a couple of practices and then expect results. Sorry, but, it doesn't work that way.

In the situation that's being presented, it's clear that the gymnast is fearful of the series. And, who can blame her? She's being asked to flip on 4 inches that's not very forgiving if you happen to slip a foot and really whack it. With that being said, beam is probably one of the safer events actually because you're not inverted as often. Most falls on beam that I've seen usually just result in a nasty bruise.

The best approach for developing a beam series is to use reverse psychology. My philosophy is to graduate kids onto the higher beams. In other words, if the technique is not correct, I do not push them onward. I am notorious for telling kids to get off of the high beam and get down on the line on the floor or on a low beam. And, I keep them there until I see it done properly there. It makes little sense to try and walk before we run. I believe that if you can't pretty much do at least 9-10 out of 10 of whatever on the line, then the low beam, then middle beam, etc. then you have no business on the high beam.

For most kids, this is pretty effective. Of course, there's always an exception. For those kids, I prefer to challenge and negotiate. "How many do you think you can get done today?" "Bet you can't get 5 done by the end of practice." "Try at least five and let me know how many you make...let me at least watch one..." By only watching one attempt, you can reduce the pressure of the situation. At some point, you do have to push a little and that's true of any skill. Once you've done the proper progressions and the technique is in place, then it's time to go for it. If the gymnast shows perfect technique on the progressions and still can't push themselves through it -- unfortunately, then it is time to consider another sport because the requirements are only going to get tougher. But, you can push without the excess stress and anxiety by just being "matter of fact" and non-emotional in saying that something needs to get done. Then, leave it in the hands of the athlete and if they don't get it done, then they have to deal with the consequences.

Anyways, with the situation that's being presented here, my first question is how good is your daughter's series on the line and low beam? Could she go 9 or 10 out of 10 and hit just about perfect? Since I've seen this scenario played out in the many gyms that I've been in, my guess would be "no." My guess is that this whole thing has been rushed and the coach is just trying to push and ultimately the situation is creating much more stress and anxiety than it needs to. Furthermore, if the technique is not correct, then my feeling is that the body has the ability to sense this. When your body sense danger, it's going to want to stop. I mean, if we didn't have such defense mechanisms, then how would we survive?

The first step in the recovery process is for the coach to back off to reduce the stress of the situation. In many cases, it's the stress of the situation that causes the "balking" as opposed to an actual fear. The second step is to let the gymnast know that fear is normal. The third is to build up the gymnast's confidence as means of making them realize and believe that they can work through the "fear." The final step is giving the gymnast a reasonable amount of control and working together to accomplish the skill. It's not complicated - it just takes a lot of patience and time.

 

[ACoach78]

I forgot to answer the question...would I spot?

No.

I teach through progressions and I think that if the time were spent going through each stage, there'd be no need to spot.

 

[gymdog]

I would be concerned about what you describe: that they are moving from 6 to 8, that the yurchenko is clearly not safe but she was still allowed to attempt it that day before she was told to stop. That they are crying over the situation when it is (IMO) unnecessary to skip through L7 and a big move nowadays as L8 is getting very competitive (seeing more double back flyaways, releases, BHS salto series on beam, double fulls on floor, etc). So is L9. If they skip to 8 this year, then likely they will have to spend two years there anyway, I would think. It doesn't sound like they'd be ready for 9 next year (if they want to be competitive). So what is the point in skipping L7 if it is creating all these mental issues and burn out? To me the only thing I can see is they want to do it for puposes of proving themselves to be a coach who can skip kids to L8 and have a big optional team. It sounds like even if the basics are in place physically, they aren't mentally.

I would reconsider this if it was my child. I am not sure of the entire situation of course, but if I was in your position: nothing is worth this. Even if there isn't another gym. If your child is upset, depressed, defeated, scared, then she is having her life seriously negatively affected by something that might last another year, and at best, on an off shot, might last through college. Of course you can expect there to be ups and downs, because nothing is ever all good, but this sounds like it's been a trend for you all for a long time.

 

[hammy]

Skipping from level 6 to level 8 is not too big of a deal, at least that's how I see it. I'm probably a little biased toward this view because that is how I progressed...level 6, level 8, level 9, level 10 (for a few years)..college team. It is possible to be competitive without having the "huge" skills, at least it used to be a few years ago. However, it all depends on the gymnast, how hard they are willing to work, and how determined they are to compete a certain level.

USAG has changed the compulsaries a great deal since I competed them, and they've changed them to meet the needs of preparing gymnasts for more demanding optional levels.

 

[gym law mom]

I really want to thank all who offered advice on this topic. ACoach, I have to agree with you---there are alot who coach(in every sport), but few who can actually teach.

We ended up switching gyms. Talking with her previous coach would not have accomplished anything. He tends to talk in circles and tells you about what this girl did at this level etc. and you keep trying to bring him back around to your kid. My daughter took a few days off from her old gym---she couldn't make herself go in for a practice and that is so out of character for her. Her confidence was shot and that fire inside of her was rapidly burning out. We talked about options and then let her think it over. She came to us and asked about calling this other gym which is the only one within at least a 1 hour drive that has an optional program.

Well, she spent this week practicing with them and although its a smaller and older gym, she loved the coaches. The HC and part owner used to be one of the optional coaches at our old gym and he left for this oppurtunity about 3 yrs ago. He is rebuilding their team program from the bottom up. Right now all they do is have optional team practice and then will be put in either the 7/8 group or the 8/9 group. No final decision is made on which level the girls compete at until mid Sept. She gets some dance 1 night/week(something our old gym didn't have) and they work progressions like crazy. He told her not even to worrry about the BHS series until he sees she's comfortable doing the BWO-BHS(something she spent like 4 wks. working on)

Best news of all to me was, right now all they are doing are yurchenko timers(except the L9/10s) and the coach spotted her on her double back into the pit---also corrected the form she had been taught. She has made some friends in just a couple of days, so hopefully this will light that fire in her belly again.

 

[Anna]

Gymlawmom, I'm glad things are starting to work their way out. I'm glad your daughter is sounding relieved and also enjoying the sport again. That is the most important thing! (And also the easiest way to get gymnasts willing to do harder stuff - when they enjoy it).

Sounds like in the end you had a situation of clashing personalities, moreso work styles. And you'll get that with different coaches. Personalities and philosophies are a really interesting topic: my trampoline coach is a national coach, and she refuses to yell. She knows we're old enough and we're there because WE WANT to be: we have to be self motivated and responsible for making sure we do the work. Plenty of people can't stand to be trained by her because she isn't a yelling screaming person.


(For an OT to the original post blurb)
I've been coached by three different styles of coach in gym:
no. 1 who BY FAR did not push my anywhere near enough, he was too soft;

no.2 who made me MISERABLE in the gym, and we were completely distraught and in a mental headspace, he really mucked with our heads and we completely freaked ourself out of things we were perfectly capable of. We lived in fear (and it completely changed our personalities too. We became shrunken and defeated).

No. 3, current coach (elite), and soviet - by far my favourite. Progressions, progressions, progressions. We drive training: he won't MAKE us do anything, but he pushes us to challenge ourselves to do it because we want to. I love it. (And amazingly, I've NEVER heard him yell. How rare is that for a Sov?)


Acoach87, I really like your reasonings, and that you're able to describe them in such detailed. It really shows that you know exactly what you're doing and WHY you're doing it that way. That is fantastic to know you've thought about it, and also handy that you're confident of your methods if a parent ever questions doubtfully.