WAG Where are the parents?

[Flyaway]

I just feel like quoting myself from earlier in this thread (before the injury derailment) because it may be even more applicable now in the conversation. Parents of survivors, if you are reading, please feel the compassion and love and support. My heart hurts for you.

I just feel like this question is impossible to answer because they WERE there, and we (the general outside observer) weren't. I just can't honestly say that if I were in the position of, say, Maggie Nichols' parents that I would have done anything different. I'd like to think I would, but I can't say for sure. I have tremendous compassion for all parents wrapped up in this tragedy. They certainly carry enormous guilt all on their own, they don't need any more piled on from me.

 

[Flippin'A]

It’s rather like anti bullying campaigns. Yes it’s the bully’s fault. And you can’t get rid of all bully’s. Not going to happen. At some point you have to also say, how can I help my kid. deal with these idiots. What can I do to make them less likely to be bullied. To deal with the bully.

I found this to be an interesting comparison. On the one hand I get it-- of course no parent wants their child to be the target of bullies. My daughter hasn't run into this yet, but I'm sure if she ever does I will do everything in my power to protect her and make sure she is able to protect herself. But the problem with bullies is that they pick on the weakest. If a child learns to stand up for herself and stops being the weakest, the bully doesn't go away, they just change targets. So while asking what you can do on a personal level to protect your child (from bullying or abuse) may be useful for your particular daughter, as a community it doesn't do very much good. If one child is harder to groom, an abuser simply moves on to another. We as gymnasts, parents, and coaches, can't afford to take an individualistic approach to this. We need to look out, not just for our particular daughters and sons, but for their teammates, for their friends, for their rivals, and for the kids we've never even met who are quietly training level 6 3000 miles away. That's why we talk about policy and culture.

You gave the example of refusing to go to a job interview in a hotel room. That's a smart policy and I'm sure mitigates some personal risk. Nassar used to see girls in his personal hotel room at international competitions. Maybe an individual girl could have put her position on the team in jeopardy by refusing to go to his room, but it wouldn't have worked for everyone because, as we know, Maroney woke up in his room after being drugged. So wouldn't it make more sense to put a policy in place that didn't allow the gymnasts in the hotel rooms of the national team staff? Demanding these sorts of policy changes help protect all the kids, not just our kids.

My daughter's school recently started a meditation program to combat bullying. And you know what? It's working. Instead of teaching all the littlest kids self defense or giving out harsher punishments after the fact, they're teaching everyone techniques to calm themselves down and gain control of their emotions. Sometimes it really is better to focus on the core of the issue instead of just making sure that parents are teaching their individual children how to protect themselves. But of course, you can always do both.

 

[LindyHopper]

I found this to be an interesting comparison. On the one hand I get it-- of course no parent wants their child to be the target of bullies. My daughter hasn't run into this yet, but I'm sure if she ever does I will do everything in my power to protect her and make sure she is able to protect herself. But the problem with bullies is that they pick on the weakest. If a child learns to stand up for herself and stops being the weakest, the bully doesn't go away, they just change targets. So while asking what you can do on a personal level to protect your child (from bullying or abuse) may be useful for your particular daughter, as a community it doesn't do very much good. If one child is harder to groom, an abuser simply moves on to another. We as gymnasts, parents, and coaches, can't afford to take an individualistic approach to this. We need to look out, not just for our particular daughters and sons, but for their teammates, for their friends, for their rivals, and for the kids we've never even met who are quietly training level 6 3000 miles away. That's why we talk about policy and culture.

You gave the example of refusing to go to a job interview in a hotel room. That's a smart policy and I'm sure mitigates some personal risk. Nassar used to see girls in his personal hotel room at international competitions. Maybe an individual girl could have put her position on the team in jeopardy by refusing to go to his room, but it wouldn't have worked for everyone because, as we know, Maroney woke up in his room after being drugged. So wouldn't it make more sense to put a policy in place that didn't allow the gymnasts in the hotel rooms of the national team staff? Demanding these sorts of policy changes help protect all the kids, not just our kids.

My daughter's school recently started a meditation program to combat bullying. And you know what? It's working. Instead of teaching all the littlest kids self defense or giving out harsher punishments after the fact, they're teaching everyone techniques to calm themselves down and gain control of their emotions. Sometimes it really is better to focus on the core of the issue instead of just making sure that parents are teaching their individual children how to protect themselves. But of course, you can always do both.

Thank you for finding these words. I've been really frustrated during this discussion, because of how black/white, either/or the discussion has been.

You have illustrated that BOTH cultural change & systemic/institutional policies AND advocating for/with as well as communicating with our children are important.

Thank you again for showing that grey exists.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I found this to be an interesting comparison. On the one hand I get it-- of course no parent wants their child to be the target of bullies. My daughter hasn't run into this yet, but I'm sure if she ever does I will do everything in my power to protect her and make sure she is able to protect herself. But the problem with bullies is that they pick on the weakest. If a child learns to stand up for herself and stops being the weakest, the bully doesn't go away, they just change targets. So while asking what you can do on a personal level to protect your child (from bullying or abuse) may be useful for your particular daughter, as a community it doesn't do very much good. If one child is harder to groom, an abuser simply moves on to another. We as gymnasts, parents, and coaches, can't afford to take an individualistic approach to this. We need to look out, not just for our particular daughters and sons, but for their teammates, for their friends, for their rivals, and for the kids we've never even met who are quietly training level 6 3000 miles away. That's why we talk about policy and culture.

You gave the example of refusing to go to a job interview in a hotel room. That's a smart policy and I'm sure mitigates some personal risk. Nassar used to see girls in his personal hotel room at international competitions. Maybe an individual girl could have put her position on the team in jeopardy by refusing to go to his room, but it wouldn't have worked for everyone because, as we know, Maroney woke up in his room after being drugged. So wouldn't it make more sense to put a policy in place that didn't allow the gymnasts in the hotel rooms of the national team staff? Demanding these sorts of policy changes help protect all the kids, not just our kids.

My daughter's school recently started a meditation program to combat bullying. And you know what? It's working. Instead of teaching all the littlest kids self defense or giving out harsher punishments after the fact, they're teaching everyone techniques to calm themselves down and gain control of their emotions. Sometimes it really is better to focus on the core of the issue instead of just making sure that parents are teaching their individual children how to protect themselves. But of course, you can always do both.

You are correct, a child who stands up for themselves doesn't make the bully go away. But my first priority as my child's parent is my child. I'm not going to apologize for that.
And perhaps if enough folks learn to stand up for themselves or others, the world would have a lot less bullies.

And we circle back around. I never said there shouldn't be sweeping changes and protections put in place. I have said that in many ways, in many threads.

And finally to what sounds like an awesome program at your childs school. Teaching kids to handle themselves. Yes that was very much my point. Teach them to control what they can.
Broadly............... In other words doing both.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Finally

It was never my intent to "lay blame"

And I am not sharing this for pity or points. But my lens is perhaps different. I have dealt with ongoing abuse in my past. And yes I get it was his fault, not mine. And I had to take a hard look at how I ended up where I did. Not to lay blame, he was the ahole, not my fault.

But if I left it at it was all him and didn't look at what I did or didn't do, I would of likely ended up in the same kind of relationship just with a different name. And that is why I am so passionate about this topic.

I don't look to blame. I do look for lessons to be learned. It's why am a survivor.

And I am out of this thread.