Parents Who's Getting onto College Teams

[cmg]

And whether they can stay healthy... Congrats to your dd. Mine is graduating from a D3 this year. It was an incredible experience all around for her and for us as parents - to finally see her compete how we knew she could if she could just stay healthy throughout comp season was amazing

Yup, that is exactly what I am hoping for too! So glad things worked out for your daughter. With D1 now being so competitive i.e. you have to be almost elite, really high DP athlete, or an actual elite, I think D3 is really a great option for gymnasts. Maybe more programs will start up.

 

[gympoppop]

This is amazing, thanks for sharing! I'm a bit of a stats person myself and was wondering if you'd be willing to share the data? I'm interested in running some probability models on this to see which factors are most predictive of scholarships and do things like predict top 20 scholarships as a function of average/highest L10 score. If I ever get the time to do it I'd report back of course!

 

[JBS]

This is absolutely awesome! Can't wait to see the rest!

 

[JBS]

Featuring the thread and linking this thread in here too...

Anon - College Recruiting experience, insights and opinions

Since my DD is starting this process, and since the information exchange seems pretty asymmetric with all the information tilted toward the programs I thought I would start this thread to see if others would want to compare notes, observations, experiences, and opinions. My DD is a freshman in...

chalkbucket.com

Don't forget to share these great discussions with your friends!

 

[mcaggie]

Fantastic, thanks.

Hi All!

There is a lot of interesting and productive discussion on this site about an athlete's chances at competing in college gymnastics, usually in an effort to answer the "Is my daughter too late/too old?" question. (Parents of girls hitting Level 10 in middle school aren't usually the ones asking!) I know I certainly came to CB looking for some answers once my daughter got serious about college gymnastics as a goal. When I realized there was a lot of information out there to analyze and help answer the too late/too old question, I jumped on it, and now I'm sharing what I learned with you.

I'm by no means an expert, just a data nerd who loves spreadsheets and was willing to do what no sane person would ever do: cross-reference the CollegeGymNews WAG Rosters and Commits spreadsheet with mymeetscores, and do my best to find out what, exactly, the competition experience of athletes actually was when they were brought onto a college team. (I referenced some basic analysis from this project in another thread, and this information basically confirms more of the same, but with harder numbers and some flashy graphics thrown in.)

I've finished surveying the top 20 and bottom 21 schools (as ranked by "Road to Nationals" website), and thought it might be helpful to share what I've found. If anything, I think it can be very reassuring to girls who aren't hitting Level 10 until their later high school years (if at all), that there are opportunities at some programs. I also think it reassures middle school girls on the long haul in Level 10 that their hard work and tenacity may very likely be recognized and rewarded.

Before I dive in, let me give the caveat that these numbers are DEFINITELY not exact. I'm just a lady in front of a computer who gets tired sometimes. Also, data just isn't readily available for international and high-school-track gymnasts (that I know of), and the way my spreadsheets are set up made these outliers hard to include. However, I'd bet anyone an Applebee's dinner that these numbers are pretty darn close. So keep that in mind.

Let's start with some key data points:

For the Top 20 College Programs:

• 345 Athletes
• 228 Scholarship positions (so about 69 percent of athletes have scholarships)
• The average all-time high AA score for athletes across these 20 programs (before college) was 38.19
• These programs are packed with former elite and elite-track gymnasts
• Girls with 5+ years of L10 experience hold 80 percent of the scholarships in this program range

Pretty charts for these Top 20 schools below. The first shows what percent of athletes had a particular length of L10 competition experience. The second shows how many of the 228 scholarships are held by each L10 experience cohort:

View attachment 8638


Contrast that information with...

The Bottom 21 College Programs:

• 391 Athletes
• Eight (8) scholarships (so about two (2) percent have scholarships)*
• The average all-time high AA score for athletes across these 21 programs (before college) was 34.07**
• 80 percent of the athletes at these schools have 3 years OR LESS experience as a Level 10 gymnast
• These athletes contained a handful of girls who were high school team gymnasts, as well as a few former XCL gymnasts

Pretty charts for Bottom 21 schools:

View attachment 8637

Is this data mind-blowing? Maybe not, but I think it concretizes things a bit, and might help people understand their chances of things like making a team, competing with a particular school, or receiving a scholarship. It does affirm some of the maxims you see around CB, but also clarifies that what holds true for someone looking for a D1 full-ride scholarship doesn't necessarily apply to someone just looking to continue their love of gymnastics competition into college.

I also think the most interesting data is going to come from surveying the programs from 21-63, where the bulk of the athletes are competing, and things are far less predictable. I will post that information as I get it completed.

Also also, if my afternoon caffeine kicks in and I spot some egregious error on here, I'll be sure to edit and correct,


* Obviously, D3 aid packages usually include some athlete incentive, but that information isn't readily available.
** These numbers include Level 9 AA highs, for the 63 athletes with no demonstrable Level 10 competition experience.

 

[ZB55]

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! It blows my mind how many girls were in Level 10 for 6-7 years, especially when you consider how many middle schoolers are just trying to get their cast to handstand!!!

 

[mezzamare]

This is amazing, thanks for sharing! I'm a bit of a stats person myself and was wondering if you'd be willing to share the data? I'm interested in running some probability models on this to see which factors are most predictive of scholarships and do things like predict top 20 scholarships as a function of average/highest L10 score. If I ever get the time to do it I'd report back of course!

Me too. So much needs to fall into place for that level of accomplishment. Not only staying healthy and on-track, but also starting at a young age, having passion AND having talent. Stars really align in those cases!

 

[mezzamare]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to update with the final numbers for this project, covering the NCAA programs ranked 21-41 (what I am calling M1) and 42-63 (what I am calling M2).

Quick overview of M1:

• 381 athletes
• Fifty-one (51) percent of these athletes have received scholarships
• About 28 percent of athletes in this tier have three years OR LESS Level 10 experience
• The average all-time high L10 AA score for these schools is 37.27

The M1 pies:

This mix is a significant change from the Top 20 schools, which have squads that average 80 percent athletes with 5+ years L10 experience. The largest growth is in the 3-year L10 group, which goes from 8.6 percent in the Top 20, to just over 18 percent of all athletes in this tier.

Meanwhile, in M2:

• 418 athletes
• Twenty-three (23) percent of these athletes have received scholarships
• Forty-two (42) percent have three years or LESS Level 10 experience
• The average all-time high L10 AA score for these schools is 36.61

Here, the 2-year group has nearly doubled, and the 7-year group has waned to just 2.6 percent. The M2 level is also the only tier in which the 5+ year group does not hold the majority of the scholarships.

The Wrap-Up:

I'll start with a grid showing the overview numbers for all of the programs:

You'll notice that athletes with 5+ years experience make up about 58 percent of the squads in all 84 programs, while holding 61 percent of the scholarships. Also note that the percentage of athletes at each level holding a scholarship descends steadily from the 7-year group (80 percent of whom receive scholarships) to the 2-year group, of whom just six (6) percent receive scholarships.

As the grid shows, just 37 percent of the gymnasts in these programs receive scholarships at all.

I would also like to repeat the average all-time AA L10 high score for all four tiers:

• Top 20: 38.22
• M1: 37.27
• M2: 36.61
• Bottom 21: 34.06

And here are some nice pies showing the Total Collegiate numbers:

In conclusion:

I hope this big number dump can help a few people have a better sense of what sort of chances their athletes might have for a team spot, a scholarship, or making a particular school's squad. I think what you read on CB is mostly true: for the best shot at making a college team, an athlete would want to have 4+ years of Level 10 experience. And to be competitive for a scholarship, it's very helpful to have a few years on top of that.

Beyond those situations, it's clear that there are places for girls with three years or less of L10, at all tiers of programs; I was pleasantly surprised to see that girls with 2 years or less experience make up almost a quarter of all athletes!

If there are any questions, or if you spot any errors, just let me know. Thanks!

 

[gymgal]

I have always maintained that if you have the skills to be a L10 gymnast and are healthy and you really want to go into college gymnastics, there is a place for you. It may not be the school, region, division you want but if your goal is to continue your gymnastic career, you can do it. You just have to cast a wide enough net. And sometimes what you think you never would want is exactly what you realize you are looking for once you cast that net wider.

 

[NutterButter]

Nice work and thank you @mezzamare!

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

Wow! This is so helpful. Thank you for putting all of this together and for sharing it with us.

 

[JBS]

This thread has been updated to link both of the data posts into the first post of the thread.

 

[Dahlialover]

This is fantastic! Would it be possible to break it up by D1 vs D2/D3? Thank you!

 

[josie55]

Thank you, @mezzamare! I have one question: when you calculated the all-time high AA score, were you looking at their entire L10 career? In other words, is it safe to assume that many may have hit their high school after having been recruited?

 

[gymgal]

This is fantastic! Would it be possible to break it up by D1 vs D2/D3? Thank you!

The bottom 20 is essentially D2/3. There are a few "misplaced" but in general, that's a good marker

 

[Aussie_coach]

My mind is blown that your gymnasts in the US have so many years at level 10.

So many kids getting level 10 so young and sticking at it for so many years!

In Australia lost kids don’t even get to level 10 until about 11th or 12th grade at school, many don't get to level 10 until well after they finish high school.

A large amount of level 10’s are University/college age students. Many students continue at the regular gyms after they finish high school, because because tend to live at home and attend university locally.

It’s rare to see kids here do level 10 for more than about 2 years.

 

[mezzamare]

Thank you, @mezzamare! I have one question: when you calculated the all-time high AA score, were you looking at their entire L10 career? In other words, is it safe to assume that many may have hit their high school after having been recruited?

Great question!

Yes, I used the 2024 rosters for this project, so with the exception of this year's regionals and nationals results for incoming freshman, these are complete career scores. So more a snapshot of where the athletes are when they are entering college, versus where they were when they were recruited.

Ideally, I'd have information on the latter, but to do it all at once was too much! I have started running numbers on the 2025 recruits, and you definitely see a drop in scores. Part of the appeal of those multi-year L10s is that they usually see a steady appreciation in their all-around scores as the years go on. Many don't start pulling 38s until their last few years of L10 competition. Although some are just superstars from the get-go!

I hope to share some info on the 2025 recruits as those firm up over time.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

This is amazing! Thank you for putting all this together.

 

[HereToCheer]

This is amazing!!! Is there a similar analysis for men’s gymnastics? There are so few D1 programs (14, I think?) and there is conflicting information as to whether those few freshman spots each year only go to JEs or whether JNs even have a shot.

View attachment 8639

By far one of the greatest posts on ChalkBucket ever! Thank you for this post @mezzamare!

The data can be found in the following posts...

First set of data: Post #2

Second set of data: Post #27​