Women Why no baranis in WAG?

[MaddieLynn]

This may have an obvious answer, but I'm not an expert in this area so bear with me.

I'm just wondering why baranis (front with a half turn) never really seem to come into play in WAG? The only time I can recall seeing one is an occasional punch barani on beam (Memmel, for example). A couple of skills in particular I think would be really cool to see so I'm curious as to why no one has tried them, at least that I've seen:

1. A barani in-back out on floor. At least, I come from a T&T gym and that's what we call it there - I'm not sure if the name would be different in WAG or not. It's a front entry double salto where the first is a front tuck with a half and the second is a back tuck. I've seen double fronts and a double front-half out on floor, but never this. Anyone?

2. Why no tumbling out of baranis? As in, a punch barani in place of a round off. I think this would be super cool into whips on FX, and kids at my gym do it ALL the time on the tumble track when they're just messing around. Why is this never translated to floor?

Just something I've been curious about recently. Again, there may be some really stupid answer, or it may have been done and I've never seen it, in which case I'd LOVE to see video!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

At the top levels, they're just not worth the difficulty value on floor.

At level 7-10, though, I'm as mystified as you are. It's an extremely important skill developmentally, and it's an easy B, either to do on its own or to connect out of something else. I like to teach my girls baranis on trampoline/mini tramp at level 5, and while I'm not currently coaching optionals on floor, if I were I would probably want every single one of them doing a barani in their routines.

 

[kandkfunk]

I don't have a lot of insight on this subject. However, when my DD asked her coaches about putting one in her level 8 floor routine, their response was that the potential for injury to the ankles if landed short wasn't worth the risk. I don't know what the injury potential is, but that's what my DD was told. I think they look cool. There are a couple women's NCAA gymnasts performing them on floor.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I am personally very glad there are no Barani's.

The problem is that most girls do a Barani like a round off with no hands, not like a front salto half twist. So for a lot of girls this means they will twist their Barani in the opposite direction to the way they actually twist when they salto.

Then they try to turn the Barani into a full and do this horrible thing where they twist one way and then back the way they came.

Also it encourages some serious picking in the front twist.

 

[sevenatenine2]

When I was a gymnast, I was taught a Barani WAS a roundoff with no hands and a front half was a different skill, in which the twist came later. My level six beam dismount was a barani and it was DEFINITELY a round off with no hands, complete with the hurdle entry.

When did this change, or was the entire artistic community doing it incorrectly in those compulsory routines? Maybe the change came about with the emergence of T and T as a sport?

My daughter did a tumbling class with a T and T instructor, and he was teaching them baranis as front with halfs versus an aerial round off. I admit to thinking to myself that what he was teaching was a front half, not a barani. Dang it, I hate it when I'm wrong.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Oh, yes, it's EXTREMELY important not to allow kids to do a roundoff in the air and call it a barani. It must be taught correctly.

But it's not hard to teach properly, and it's not hard to do.

 

[flipflopsalto]

When I was a gymnast, I was taught a Barani WAS a roundoff with no hands and a front half was a different skill, in which the twist came later. My level six beam dismount was a barani and it was DEFINITELY a round off with no hands, complete with the hurdle entry.

When did this change, or was the entire artistic community doing it incorrectly in those compulsory routines? Maybe the change came about with the emergence of T and T as a sport?

My daughter did a tumbling class with a T and T instructor, and he was teaching them baranis as front with halfs versus an aerial round off. I admit to thinking to myself that what he was teaching was a front half, not a barani. Dang it, I hate it when I'm wrong.

I am glad you said this, I was thinking maybe I was crazy. I competed the same "barani" off beam which was, like you said, definitely a no handed round-off lol

 

[cbifoja]

I'm going to take a video of what my DD's coaches call her barani. When she does it, she runs and then punches from two feet before doing a flip/twist thing in the air and landing on two feet (I think two feet, not sure about that part).

But her coach also won't put them in her routine so I'm thinking that maybe she isn't doing correctly despite the coaches identifying it as a barani.

 

[MaddieLynn]

I am personally very glad there are no Barani's.

The problem is that most girls do a Barani like a round off with no hands, not like a front salto half twist. So for a lot of girls this means they will twist their Barani in the opposite direction to the way they actually twist when they salto.

Then they try to turn the Barani into a full and do this horrible thing where they twist one way and then back the way they came.

Also it encourages some serious picking in the front twist.

I just don't understand why this should be used as a reason for why they shouldn't happen. Maybe if they were more common gymnasts would be taught the correct way to do them? I know that in T&T they are a required element for many levels, so at the gym I'm from athletes are not allowed to keep chucking ugly/incorrect ones.

 

[happychaos]

I am glad you said this, I was thinking maybe I was crazy. I competed the same "barani" off beam which was, like you said, definitely a no handed round-off lol

Me too! It was my favorite beam skill because I found it easy, but thought it looked impressive, lol.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

There tends to be a bit of terminology confusion between Artistic Gymnastics and Tramp & Tumbling.

Often, MAG and WAG coaches will call a front salto with a late half twist (ie a correctly-executed one) a "front 1/2," and refer to a similar skill with a much earlier twist (ie an aerial roundoff) as a "barani."

In T&T, however, a front salto with a late half twist is called a "barani" and one with an early half twist is called (if I recall correctly) a "jonah."


Whatever you want to call it, proper technique is to initiate the salto with no twist, and then initiate the twist somewhere around halfway through the salto. While an aerial roundoff makes for a very easy front salto with a half twist, it is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to develop that it into anything more than a 1/2 twist.

Hopefully this clears things up.

 

[Aero]

The difference is in the take off. From what I understand, a front half is initiated from a punch take off (two feet). I don't think there is a "Barani" in artistic gymnastics. I'm pretty sure that it's a T&T term for a sing forward tucked salto kicked out into a half. As for the no handed round off, I've heard this skill called a "Brandy" on multiple occasions. Brandys involve a hurdle take off, while front halves initiate from a punch, and Baranis are a trampoline skill. That's my view.

 

[BlairBob]

Brandy's are merely a corruption of Baranis. I remember hearing this term way back when I first started. Simply put, that's what happens when Americans try to say "Barani."

The Jonah is an early 1/2 turn into a back flip. We used to do them on mini tramp or double mini.

 

[MaddieLynn]

I know this is an old thread so I hope I don't get in trouble for bringing it up, but I just had to add an update:

I was at some of the Elite Challenge in Spokane last night and saw 2 different elite women in flight 3 use a punch barani straight in place of a round off in warm ups. One actually competed it and the other I'm not sure about because I missed the beginning of her pass, but I'm assuming she also competed it because she warmed it up. I just found this interesting as I've never seen it other than as an "I'm just messing around at the gym" skill.

 

[BlairBob]

It can be used that way. What did they tumble after it?

 

[MaddieLynn]

Both went into whips.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

This may have an obvious answer, but I'm not an expert in this area so bear with me.

I'm just wondering why baranis (front with a half turn) never really seem to come into play in WAG? The only time I can recall seeing one is an occasional punch barani on beam (Memmel, for example). A couple of skills in particular I think would be really cool to see so I'm curious as to why no one has tried them, at least that I've seen:

1. A barani in-back out on floor. At least, I come from a T&T gym and that's what we call it there - I'm not sure if the name would be different in WAG or not. It's a front entry double salto where the first is a front tuck with a half and the second is a back tuck. I've seen double fronts and a double front-half out on floor, but never this. Anyone?

2. Why no tumbling out of baranis? As in, a punch barani in place of a round off. I think this would be super cool into whips on FX, and kids at my gym do it ALL the time on the tumble track when they're just messing around. Why is this never translated to floor?

Just something I've been curious about recently. Again, there may be some really stupid answer, or it may have been done and I've never seen it, in which case I'd LOVE to see video!

never say never...

Link Removed

 

[BlairBob]

Barani whip does make sense and I've played with that before...eons ago.

 

[Anna]

My two cents as both ex-athlete/now coach of T&T and WAG...

Baranis are worth 0.7 on tumbling, whereas a roundoff is worth 0.2. That's one reason why so many athletes in tumbling use them. More difficulty points!

Additionally, it is quite easy to get a 0.0 deduction on a straight barani vs. a roundoff. Most athletes also find it easier to land at the correct angle (overrotated) for the next skill. I would wager that it is more common for females to use the skill than males, as females tend to have less complex double saltos mid-pass.

My preference for an artistic gymnast is to develop a full twist front from a front layout (with excellent heel drive), not a barani.

 

[Jenny]

I am glad you said this, I was thinking maybe I was crazy. I competed the same "barani" off beam which was, like you said, definitely a no handed round-off lol

The technical term for that dismount off beam is a 'flop off' don't you know.