WAG Why not elite for Young level 9s and 10s?

[ayyyrial]

I feet like in JO there is a lot of competitiveness about getting to a certain level by a certain age, and the attitude of parents and coaches and gymnasts is that it's good to move up quickly and get to a high level at a young age. But that's not always true. If your goal is NCAA then you want to fit into the timeline for recruitment. If your goal is elite you might be trying to fit into the timeline for HOPES or trying to test elite by a certain age. But for 90+% of gymnasts it doesn't really matter, and there's no point in comparing one gymnast's timeline with another.

I didn't realize how fully the younger=better thing had gotten into my mind until I started competing NAIGC. Some people there had been doing gymnastics for 10 years, some for less than 1 - it suddenly occurred to me that it was pointless to compare myself with 5 years of experience to either group of people, even though we were mostly around the same age. Even with kids who have all been doing J.O. forever - if you win first place at states, you win first place at states regardless of what level or age you are, and it's an accomplishment. And there are different big accomplishments for different kids - e.g., making it to level 5, learning a certain skill, getting stronger. I know it's a competitive sport, but we don't have to be competitive about things like a gymnast's overall career, and nobody should feel like they're "old" or "too old".

 

[GYM0M]

There are a couple posters who constantly mention that their child is a 7yo L7 (or whatever level), but they will be 8yo by the time season starts. They just want to say it because it sounds impressive.

This is true, lol! I've even done this. My DD competed L8 as an 8 year old; however, she turned 9 the next day, lol!

In regards to the OP, my DD is now 11, exclusively a HOPES competitor. Started 'real' gymnastics at 5.5; competed JO successfully through L8; tried to score out of L9 in Jan '16 as a 9 year old, but was not successful; has not competed in any JO state or regionals since L4; her goal is elite.......

 

[gymgal]

I can certainly see pushing girls at a young age who want to go elite but I question the motives behind this when the gym clearly only produces college potential athletes. Why push them at such a young age just to sit in L10 for 6-8 years? These gyms tend to train significantly more hours than is needed for the age of the gymnasts they have. Why not slow their progression so they are reaching L10 at 13-14yrs old, with plenty of years to perfect their skills and routines while reducing the potential for injuries?

 

[MuggleMom]

Why not slow their progression so they are reaching L10 at 13-14yrs old, with plenty of years to perfect their skills and routines while reducing the potential for injuries?

Is this really possibly though with Colleges sending out recruiting letters to 11 and 12 year olds? Kids are verbally committing when they are in 8th grade--I think this trend pushes some families to hit the higher levels at a younger age otherwise they may not be getting noticed by the bigger D1 schools.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I wanted to answer from a coaches perspective. We don't have any 9-10 year old level 10's and I have never even seen a 9-10 year old level 10 in my state (Australia is quite different to the US).

But even if you are not training kids for elite there is pressure to get kids to a certain level by a certain age to allow that child to reach their full potential. There are certain windows of opportunity in gymnastics. It is much easier/faster to teach kids skills prior to puberty. Their strength to body weight ratio is higher, their centre of gravity is lower, they need less strength to get the skills around because they are smaller, they are more flexibile, they have less fear. There are less other factors pulling them away from spending time in the gym (excess school work, part time jobs, hanging out with friends, boys etc), they are less social and have lots of energy, they are easier to spot etc. On e they hit puberty you deal with higher injury rates, fears, distractions etc.

If you miss these windows of opportunity the gymnasts often don't develop to as high a level as they would have done or could have done.

But on the other hand some things are easier to learn after puberty. A lot of the polish to the routines, styles and performance aspects are much easier to teach to a more developed gymnast. So it can be a coaches goal to get the kids to the highest possible level pre puberty skill wise and then focus on the performance and competitive aspect after. Level 10 is a great place to do this and spend a few years because it can be ever changing, with no limit to difficulty.

But if course as coaches we have to be very mindful of caring for our athletes bodies. The temptation can be to expect excessive hours from these young gymmies to help them reach as far as they can in the sport. But this can lead to many overuse injuries. If you break time before they are 12 then their college or elite dreams are not going to happen.

Another thing coaches need to be aware of is that kids go through a phase, while they are going through puberty, where they are far more prone to injury. Their bones and muscles are growing at different rates and their body composition is changing. You can have a kid who has never been injured and then when puberty begins they go through a spate of niggly issues. A lot of kids at this age are starting to significantly increase their hours in the gym and significantly increase the difficulty level of their skills, which just exacerbates the problem.

Hitting the harder level skills prior to this time, can help to stave off the risks of massively increasing difficulty during this vulnerable time.

 

[gymgal]

Is this really possibly though with Colleges sending out recruiting letters to 11 and 12 year olds? Kids are verbally committing when they are in 8th grade--I think this trend pushes some families to hit the higher levels at a younger age otherwise they may not be getting noticed by the bigger D1 schools.

This is not the norm, even though it is talked about a lot. It is the top 10 colleges, so a max of 30 or so gymnasts that are committing in 8th/9th. Additionally, an 8th grader from a solid college-producing gym is likely going to be entering L9 and L10 with excellent routines and scores so they are going to be "seen" that first year and will not be at any disadvantage, especially if they are at a successful gym where college coaches visit often due to older girls in the gym

ETA: just checked on collegegymfans and they have 15 commits for 2021-22 (rising 9th).

 

[bookworm]

Also my goodness, think of the injury rate if you make 10 at 10 years old!?! That has GOT to be rough on a body.

My oldest was a 10 yo level 10, who went on to do a stint in elite, hated elite and dropped back to 10...the weird thing in all this is she didn't have her first injury until her 3rd year of level 10/E. Her original coaches paced her well and didn't over train her...she did 20 hours a week. Unfortunately all the upper level coaches left that gym so we had to change gyms but early level 10 doesn't necessarily doom one to constant injury.

And I think a lot of young 10s don't do elite because it's a total animal of its own...and I mean animal. My daughter's view was "it's never good enough , mum, never"...and that's tough to hear every single day. She was a much happier camper as a level 10...and her routines became more polished, solid , consistent and difficult over the years so she wasn't bored as a multi year 10.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I've just kinda thought Level 10 can be infinitely upgraded for those who reach it very young.

This

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Lol, most will turn the next age by the time they compete the next level.
There are a couple posters who constantly mention that their child is a 7yo L7 (or whatever level), but they will be 8yo by the time season starts. They just want to say it because it sounds impressive.

I think there is a lot of perhaps wishful thinking on some parents parts. The child flies through lower levels so they think their kids will go at the same pace at higher levels. So in their mind their kid will be a L10 by 10....

And then stuff gets in the way, a block, an injury, harder skills just taking longer.......................

As to why bother.................. if no elite.

L10 if you are doing it multi year(s) you are not doing it with the same skills. You are in all likelihood constantly working new things.

And you can love something, be good at something and not need "elite". Same with college. There are actually kids who chose Div 2 or 3 because they don't want the all consuming experience that Div 1 seems to be but still want gymnastics...................

Even my little turtle. Probably could be an 8 on her way to 9 by now, but doesn't have the drive to want to push that hard. She is happy where she is at in 6/7 world for now. Whether she goes further or not and how fast who knows. She likes what she is doing and we like the "non level" related things she gets out of gym...............

 

[Gym proud]

At this time of year, the girls aren't technically the next level, yet. My DD, who is training 9, will most likely compete level 9. However, it won't be decided until October.
I assume that's what the majority of the posters are saying...... of course some exaggerate or say their kid is training a level they obviously wont compete next season.

I love this. Our coaches always say you can't say you are that Level until you have actually competed that level!

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

My DD is at a gym that just this year starting training elite, there are currently 4 girls, including her, that are in the HOPES program at our gym, my DD is the youngest, she turned 11 in April, there is one other 11 year old (a few months older than my DD) and 2 12 year olds. She is currently training level 9/10 (we won't know if she will compete level 9 or level 10 until probably November). All of the other level 10s at our gym, who are not part of the HOPES group, are ages 14 and up. So while she will not be a 10 year old level 10, she could very potentially be an 11 year old level 10, but her ultimate goal is to go elite and make it to the national team, so hopefully she won't be competing level 10 for the next 7 years but will be competing at the national level. At least that is her hope and dream!

 

[duyetanh]

I wanted to answer from a coaches perspective. We don't have any 9-10 year old level 10's and I have never even seen a 9-10 year old level 10 in my state (Australia is quite different to the US).

But even if you are not training kids for elite there is pressure to get kids to a certain level by a certain age to allow that child to reach their full potential. There are certain windows of opportunity in gymnastics. It is much easier/faster to teach kids skills prior to puberty. Their strength to body weight ratio is higher, their centre of gravity is lower, they need less strength to get the skills around because they are smaller, they are more flexibile, they have less fear. There are less other factors pulling them away from spending time in the gym (excess school work, part time jobs, hanging out with friends, boys etc), they are less social and have lots of energy, they are easier to spot etc. On e they hit puberty you deal with higher injury rates, fears, distractions etc.

If you miss these windows of opportunity the gymnasts often don't develop to as high a level as they would have done or could have done.

But on the other hand some things are easier to learn after puberty. A lot of the polish to the routines, styles and performance aspects are much easier to teach to a more developed gymnast. So it can be a coaches goal to get the kids to the highest possible level pre puberty skill wise and then focus on the performance and competitive aspect after. Level 10 is a great place to do this and spend a few years because it can be ever changing, with no limit to difficulty.

But if course as coaches we have to be very mindful of caring for our athletes bodies. The temptation can be to expect excessive hours from these young gymmies to help them reach as far as they can in the sport. But this can lead to many overuse injuries. If you break time before they are 12 then their college or elite dreams are not going to happen.

Another thing coaches need to be aware of is that kids go through a phase, while they are going through puberty, where they are far more prone to injury. Their bones and muscles are growing at different rates and their body composition is changing. You can have a kid who has never been injured and then when puberty begins they go through a spate of niggly issues. A lot of kids at this age are starting to significantly increase their hours in the gym and significantly increase the difficulty level of their skills, which just exacerbates the problem.

Hitting the harder level skills prior to this time, can help to stave off the risks of massively increasing difficulty during this vulnerable time.

Brilliantly written. THIS.

 

[Bug's mom]

I love this. Our coaches always say you can't say you are that Level until you have actually competed that level!

Hard to win isn't it?!? They're no longer their old Level, and not yet their new level but when you say they're 'training' a level, folks want to suggest you are an exaggerating parent.

 

[raenndrops]

Hard to win isn't it?!? They're no longer their old Level, and not yet their new level but when you say they're 'training' a level, folks want to suggest you are an exaggerating parent.

According to the coach mentioned, he or she would consider the gymnast as being the old level until they compete the new level.

We refer to our team girls as Old Level / Training New Level… for example, YG is XLG/ Training XLP-Level 6 and YG is Level 6 / Training Level 7.
We have others that are:
Level 3 / Training XLG (Mostly for girls who are going to compete for the Jr. High team, but also those age 11+ that have SOMETHING holding them back in compulsories)

Level 3 / Training Level 4

Level 4 / Training XLG/XLP & Level 5/6 (Only if they are going to compete for the Junior High Team - has XLP Rules … Jr. High season is Sept/Oct and we don't compete until Nov.
After the JR. High season, they have 5 options: 1. Repeat L4. 2. Compete XLG. 3. Compete L5 all season. 4. Compete L5 until they make gym score out 2x, then compete L6. 5. Compete XLP all season.) We have had girls choose each of these options over the years.

Level 4 / Training Level 5

Level 5 / Training Level 6

Level 6 / Training Level 7

Level 8 / Training Level 9

XLG/ Training XLP

Some of these girls will repeat their current level all season. Some will move up mid-season. And some will start the season at their training level.

 

[gasrgoose]

Hard to win isn't it?!? They're no longer their old Level, and not yet their new level but when you say they're 'training' a level, folks want to suggest you are an exaggerating parent.

Actually they are still the level they competed. It's pretty simple. Everyone is training for the next level except 10's (some are training for elite) and elites. If it's not an exaggerating parent then why include the qualifying statement "training level x"? I'm not trying to pick on you, I mean this generally. If our kids hear us say this about them, does it sound like level x really isn't that good so we mention the next level?

 

[LJL07]

My DD was 6 during this past level 3 season and I always felt like she was a baby and "ahead"of the curve. Lol. Being on this board definitely put it in perspective for me that she is no special snowflake and that she may even be a bit "old". Lol. But it also made me realize that she is at a time in her life where it should be fun and low stress because it only gets more stressful and serious the higher you climb.
I stated that my DD was"training" level 4 because that's all they have been working on. She hasn't done level 3 stuff since the summer started. But she also has not competed level 4.

On the contrary, 6 is extremely young for level 3. They have to be minimum 6 years old. Most of the girls were around 8 or 9. At any rate, my youngest is in the same boat. Competed 3 as a 6 year old and will hopefully compete level 4 next season as a 7 year old. I do not want her doing one level above 4 this year. It's an important fundamental level and plenty hard enough for a 7 year old as far as meets go in my opinion. I don't care about saying I have a 7 year old level 7. LOL! My 10 year old daughter is hoping to compete level 8. She just came off a great season of level 7 as a 9 year old.

 

[LJL07]

And let me tell you that competing level 7 as a 7 year old is no joke. Going from a mill circle on level 3 to competently swinging giants and free hip hands on the high bar is expecting an awful lot of a little one. Can it be done? Sure in very rare cases. But to do it safely and well is an exception. Just because some children have upskills does not mean they are ready to compete the level. There are a couple of parents on social media who brag constantly about their 7 year old going to 6/7 and I have to avert my eyes. They will learn though.

 

[HoldThePhone]

There is too much emphasis on levels for the most part, in my opinion. I found out part way through this past season what the coach wants my daughter to compete this upcoming year, and I never mentioned it to DD. There is just no need. She will get where she gets, when she gets there. She knows that skills shes working, and what skills she needs for certain levels, and works hard to attain what she can for the level she hopes to compete, but our goal is never to be the highest level she can be for her age.

That said, she heard the coach tell a visiting coach one day which level she will compete, and she came home extremely excited. I was hoping she'd have to wait a bit longer to find out, lol!

 

[Bug's mom]

Feeling the love

 

[gymbeam]

Actually they are still the level they competed. It's pretty simple. Everyone is training for the next level except 10's (some are training for elite) and elites. If it's not an exaggerating parent then why include the qualifying statement "training level x"? I'm not trying to pick on you, I mean this generally. If our kids hear us say this about them, does it sound like level x really isn't that good so we mention the next level?

Interesting how different perspectives can be.

See, I've always respected that that our gym (and apparently many other gyms) call it "training X" level until right before the season.

To me, it seems the most accurate way of expressing that an athlete has demonstrated mastery of competing the previous level and barring any unpredictable setbacks is on track to advance. I mean, in the off season, they are literally "training level whatever" so it makes total sense to me.

Also, I'd like to make it clear I learned to refer to it as "training X" level from our gym. I did not make it up to be an "exaggerating parent" and I'd bet that the majority of others saying it didn't make it up either.

All that being said, I do recognize that some people will see their child uptraining a few skills and claim they are training levels that they will certainly not compete the following season. If we all did that anyone who has an optional gymnast could pretty much say they were "training level 10" since they start progressing toward those skills years ahead of time. Those parents are the exception though.

In general, I think it's understood what people mean by "training X" and that it is the standard way to refer to where a gymnast is in the off season.