Why such a strong reaction?

[Bella's Mom]

I have a question about "visiting" gyms other than your own. I have read all over CB about gymnasts not being "allowed" to visit other gyms or it being disloyal or disrespectful to consider another gym or visit another gym without permission.

Could someone explain exactly why it is disrespectful, disloyal, and forbidden? I respect the sentiment but I'd like to understand why.

And no, this isn't personal to me at all. We love our gym and aren't even considering leaving. I just read another post and it reminded me that I wanted to ask that.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

I am interested in this too. I live in an area that has many gyms within 20-30 minutes of each other. Some of these gyms are stronger than the others as far as upper level team Levels 9 and 10- placement at States, Regionals, etc. but there are several gyms (3 or 4) that all produce strong Level 8/9/10 gymnasts. I know for a fact there has been some mobility over the years with girls moving from one gym to another- wither b/c they clicked with the coaching style/coaches at another gym better, the schedule at gym A worked better than the schedule at gym B, etc. I really look at it from a business standpoint- as a parent who pays for instruction I am going to take my business to the gym my DD and I think is best for her.

 

[nevertooold]

When a gym takes your child onto their team, they are expressing a loyalty to you and your child. A willingness to help your child achieve her gymnastics goals regardless of whether she has a growth spurt, a series of injuries, fear issues down the road, or just turns out to be a nice kid who isn't a "winner".

We don't at the end of each year look at the kids and say "geez, Suzie isn't producing much, let's trade her for the new kid that tried out last week". With limited resources of coaching staff, equipment time, etc... each gym has a finite number of kids they can take on team. And if your child is granted a spot she will not be kicked off team as soon as a more promising child comes along.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I think it is the root of some of the loyalty feelings.

If it were strictly business then what if the gyms every year just held open tryouts and took the best x number at each level, and too bad for the rest of the kids.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Thanks nevertooold that is an interesting perspective!

 

[coachmolly]

Nevertooold brought up an interesting point, something which is true of many of the "good" gyms out there. If yours is a situation where the coaches have your/your child's best interests at heart, I think any problems should be discussed with coaches before shopping for greener pastures. If all is well, at least to the coaches knowledge, I agree that they have good reason to be upset about a gymnast exploring other options as it is a breach of loyalty.
On the other hand, not every gym is right for every child nor is every gym looking out for each child's best interests. In those types of situations where differences have been made clear and no corrections made, I think checking out other programs, even secretly, is acceptable. Providing coaches/gym owners with too much info can lead to the child being given less than satisfactory treatment if a decision to stay put is made, or if a decision to switch in a matter of weeks/months (after season, when payed for tuition runs out, etc.) is made.

 

[cher062]

When a gym takes your child onto their team, they are expressing a loyalty to you and your child. A willingness to help your child achieve her gymnastics goals regardless of whether she has a growth spurt, a series of injuries, fear issues down the road, or just turns out to be a nice kid who isn't a "winner".

We don't at the end of each year look at the kids and say "geez, Suzie isn't producing much, let's trade her for the new kid that tried out last week". With limited resources of coaching staff, equipment time, etc... each gym has a finite number of kids they can take on team. And if your child is granted a spot she will not be kicked off team as soon as a more promising child comes along.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but I think it is the root of some of the loyalty feelings.

If it were strictly business then what if the gyms every year just held open tryouts and took the best x number at each level, and too bad for the rest of the kids.

Ok I do agree that the gym will give a certain amount of dedication to a child but that is what we are paying the gym for. they are the ones that tell us that our child can be on team and has the skill or what ever. If we accept our child being on team then we pay for a service and that service includes working with our child when injured. In fact just this past summer my dd WAS kicked off the team at her old gym (along with a few others) after they added in some better gymnasts. We definitly experienced the "Geez Suzie is taking longer to produce than the other kid let's get rid of her now that our team is full and we have gymnasts that are learning faster looking at us" And we were with them for 14 years from when they started to the moment they got rid of my DD from the team. We defended them over and over on various issues through out the years and all that loyalty meant nothing in the end. In fact the owner was surprised we were going to consider leaving to compete with another gym after the years of loayalty and friendship we had together. he was truely shocked when we decided not to put dd on Prep Op at his gym and choose to continue L7 at another gym. In the end it was the best thing ever to happen to us and DD is thriving way over and above any thing we had expected.

I don't think you see gyms kicking kids off the team too often because alot of gyms today aren't filled to capasity on team or rec class and so long as they have room they will keep you. but I think you will see it at your big time competitive gyms that CAN pick and choose the best gymnasts because they have them on wait list if a space opens up.

Gyms do tell parents sorry your kid isn't what we want after they have been on team - I've experienced it and seen it happen to others. If a parent is looking at other gyms then they want to either see that they are getting their monies worth or look for a better situation. In both cases it isn't that they are disloyal its more that they are good consumers. Every consumer has the right to do just that with out the fear of having their child ejected from a program just for looking at other options. If a gym has a good program they shouldn't be afraid of anyone looking around. I would hope that every coach would want to see every gymnast in the gym that is best suited for the gymnast even if it means it's not their gym but that isn't really the case. Gyms are a business first and want all the slots filled. Its just like any other business that is service oriented business.

Parents are Paying for that "gym loyalty" it goes with the service similar to a child care. Parents pay the care giver to care and teach their child.

Ok stepping off the soap box - Next person

 

[marie83]

We don't forbid visiting other gyms, but I guess I'd just feel pretty upset if one of my gymnasts, who I've coached for 5 years, told me that they had been to a gym down the road to see if she liked it better. I would try not to show it, but in all honesty, I would be upset. We coaches see our team girls for at least 12 hours per week and they really do begin to feel like family. If I thought it was a good choice, I'd encourage the move, if I thought it wouldn't make much difference I#d try and find out the motivation behind it.
All we ask for is honesty. If a gymnast feels like they are stuck in a rut and wants to try out other options we just ask that they tell us. We might be able to help the situation before they look elsewhere.

 

[coachmolly]

I don't think you see gyms kicking kids off the team too often because alot of gyms today aren't filled to capasity on team or rec class and so long as they have room they will keep you. but I think you will see it at your big time competitive gyms that CAN pick and choose the best gymnasts because they have them on wait list if a space opens up.

Or coaches will do everything but kick a kid off the team- give up on them, essentially stop coaching them, relegate them to a prep op type group when that's not what they want to do, the list probably goes on. It really is unfortunate that not every gym has the best interests of their gymnasts in mind, it makes me sick.

 

[ek2]

I can see both sides of the argument. However, my experience and others whom I have known that have switched programs, did so after numerous conversations with the coaches, management etc. I think there is another thread about this from a year or so ago.
But it is like anything "no one" not a coach, parent, gym owner or gymnast, wants to feel like they do not measure up... wish no one took things personally but we all do. So when someone leaves, is not moved to the next level, told their kid needs to be in a lesser program... etc. feelings will get hurt.

 

[Gymdad2]

I agree with ek2 on this thread. In cases where the gym is not providing the service you are paying for or where the relationship between you and the gym is strictly business, then I don't see any problem with checking our other gyms just as you would any other product. However, in dd's case, and I suspect in many others, the relationship we have with the gym/owner/hc is more than a business relationship. DD has been at the same gym with the same owner/hc for 14 years, from preteam to 2nd year L10 and HC is truely a member of our family. I cannot imagine going behind his back. We have had our differences over the years, but what family doesn't? DD has spent countless hours with him and I consider us to have been blessed to know him. He has earned our loyalty.

 

[All Chalked Up]

I know we're allowed to for camps and stuff! We difinitely were allowed last year; maybe not so much this year as our two-highest level gymnasts quit our gym to go there...

 

[nevertooold]

There is in my opinion a flawed logic with the consumer mentality when it comes to team gymnastics. Divide out what you pay per hour to your gym. In most cases you could not get a teenage babysitter for that amount of money. Yet for 4 something an hour (your mileage may vary) you are getting trained professionals to teach your child a complicated sport, with the added benefits of character building, child psychology, mentoring, etc.

In our area you would pay more for afterschool care at your childs own school, a buch of kids playing on the filthy lunchroom floor. So it can be seen as an insult to say you want to make sure you are getting your moneys worth. If you are on a reasonably decent team in the states then you are getting your moneys worth. Usually much more. Thanks to a bunch of crazy passionate people who love this sport and love working with kids enough to work for low wages.

The Little Gym and Gymboree are businesses, competitive team is not.

 

[Bella's Mom]

Thanks for all the responses. It helps me understand some. I guess because I've been so fortunate to never even have to think about looking for another gym, I've not really thought about it too much. I can appreciate the comments from those who have had multiple conversations with coaches before leaving and that it was a hard decision. I hope to never have to be in that position.

 

[gymdog]

Well, I kind of look at it as a "put your money where your mouth is" thing. You have to create a business people want to stay at. I would note that I have seen MANY examples firsthand of unreasonable behavior from the coaching/ownership side. So it's sort of hard to be like "these crazy fickle people and their lack of loyalty."

On the other hand there are crazy people who are just being fickle. But this is like a smaller percentage of people than some people seem to want to make it out. MOST people are reasonable, particularly when they are put in a situation where expectations are communicated clearly and there is a culture where reason prevails. So if people are coming and constantly complaining about EVERYONE else, they need to look at the common denominator of that situation. Most people aren't looking for their kids to go to the Olympics. They are asking for their child to be treated fairly, with respect, and to be able to participate in a positive environment where they can meet their goals.

And, on yet another hand, a business can't be everything to everyone. Some people will just be better serviced elsewhere. I do agree that if a coach has consistently tried to help your child meet their goals in a caring way, but there is some problem or dissatisfaction, there needs to be communication and compromise. No situation will be perfect, and compromise is always going to be an issue in something that is a big time, emotional, financial commitment without a lot of sure outcomes. No one can really honestly guarantee you a specific future in gymnastics. They can try to better the chances of a certain outcome, but that's what we're looking at. And in a lot of cases unless the problems are unsolvable (incompatible goals) then I think the child is generally better off staying in a stable training environment from an emotional and physical standpoint. It shouldn't be anyone's goal or "strategy" to switch around every time you don't hear exactly what you want, but again, this is fairly rare in the grand scheme of things.

As far as once you have decided a gym switch is necessary, visiting the potential gym is certainly necessary. Just randomly doing it with no intention of switching there is weird in my opinion and should not be encouraged. Visiting a gym while on vacation is a different situation and generally tolerated by both parties 90% of the time.

 

[AGM78910]

Funny this topic should come up. One of the biggest and most popular gyms in the area had a huge sale on last years leotards recently. My DD and I went over to check them out and buy several since they had none in her size at our gym. The gym owner (who I knew by sight) was very friendly and asked us a lot of questions about where my DD went to gym, what level was she, and were we happy with the program, etc... I told him that I though he had a nice gym but no way would we leave ours.

 

[gymdog]

Funny this topic should come up. One of the biggest and most popular gyms in the area had a huge sale on last years leotards recently. My DD and I went over to check them out and buy several since they had none in her size at our gym. The gym owner (who I knew by sight) was very friendly and asked us a lot of questions about where my DD went to gym, what level was she, and were we happy with the program, etc... I told him that I though he had a nice gym but no way would we leave ours.

Well...that's generally considered not in good form. On the other hand, I know how easily the gymnastics community's affinity for gossip could be misinterpreted. "Do you like the program" could mean anything from "Hmm, I don't know much about them...could trouble be ahead?" to "Hey, that is my best buddy of 30 year's gym! I am curious to talk to this person about it!" to "You should come to my gym." To be honest in many cases that kind of conversation will be between the first and the second ones. Everyone just has to be all up in everyone's business here, sometimes they don't really have many intentions beyond that.

I am not saying that this is ideally virtuous behavior. However, it's not like I can claim that I don't enjoy knowing exactly what is going on with gymnastics everywhere that is relevant to me, so...

Generally, lots of people have a "the more the merrier" perspective and just want to see gymnastics continue to be a sport that many children can participate in. Seriously.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Well, it's hard to put into words, but I'll give it a go. For the gymnast that has been on the team maybe a year or two, it's not such a huge deal, in my opinion, especially if they are young or on the lower compulsory levels. They are just starting out, they don't know all that's involved, etc. Its more about the ones that have been in a gym on a team for many years that gets such a strong reaction to leaving or looking around. Or when it's one of the gym's best gymnasts, that really hurts (feelings). By then it's more like a family member, someone you've grown to love, you enjoy each other and depend on each other. It's the parents as much as the child at that point. We just had two girls leave to try a lesser (yes, I'll say it!!) gym, and I'm still waiting for the one mom to tell me--we've been together for 6 years, we've spent most distance meets together, or at least rode together. I feel hurt that she'd been planning to leave all along, and didn't even tell me the night they told the owner.

Its like a pp said, after years of training and pouring all your knowledge and skill that you can into a gymnast, for them to just leave---its hard to deal with. A new gym just opened up near ours, and has rapidly expanded from just classes, to level 4 team six months later, to renting a much larger facility 9 months after opening, to now building an even bigger facility, and they haven't been open for a year. I don't know how they are expanding so quickly, since they are supposedly non-profit and all, and supposedly don't care about scores even though they are planning on having more teams. And they are getting a lot of our class kids, which I guess is normal since people love to check out new stuff, but they are also getting some of our team kids. Their only team has 5 out of 6 kids that left our team for theirs in the fall in one group--don't tell me that was a coincidence. And now they have some of our coaches listed as their coaches???

So you see, that is why there is often a strong reaction, because it feels like betrayal, even if it's not intended that way. And, it's sad--its sad to lose your friends and teammates that you love and care so much for, and only really get to see at gym because of distance and different schools, etc. And then you see them at a meet wearing different colors, with different teammates, and you miss them all over again, and it's very awkward seeing them and talking to them.

 

[gymjoy]

So you see, that is why there is often a strong reaction, because it feels like betrayal, even if it's not intended that way. And, it's sad--its sad to lose your friends and teammates that you love and care so much for, and only really get to see at gym because of distance and different schools, etc. And then you see them at a meet wearing different colors, with different teammates, and you miss them all over again, and it's very awkward seeing them and talking to them.

I have a couple different thoughts on this subject. What GAgymmom said above is one of them, especially the betrayal part. I would add to the feeling of betrayal the feelings of anger and disappointment. It leads to a lot of questions in the remaining team-mates minds - what was wrong with us, with our gym, with our coaches, for (Whoever) to leave. For some it leads them to leave as well, for others it strengthens their resolve. (I've seen it at dd's gym which lost a good number of their gymnast after last season. It started as a trickle. Then the questions began, and it became a bit of a flood, and included one of the best gymnast on the team who had been there for many years. The remaining gymnast banded together to become a much tighter group - however, many are still sad and angry about their lost team-mates...)

My other thought when reading the OP was that dd's coaches are particular and careful about each gymnast training with a focus on correct technique, form and progression. They do not like the girls to just visit another gym where their carefully laid plans could be derailed. We have had girls go to camps, come back and chuck the new skill they learned while away. The coaches spent more time reteaching the skill correctly, than they would have if they had been the ones to teach it in the first place.

Also, dd's coaches are secretive about some of their training techniques. They do not want them given away to another team. When we went to visit dd's old gym while on a trip back east we told the 'new' coaches, asked what she could work on while there, double checked she knew her setting for bars and vault, etc. Coaches were very nice about it, but reminded us not to talk too much about how they train or spot. It made me chuckle because I do not think I could put how her gym works into words. I may have been a gym-mom for 8+ years, but I am still clueless about many things...

 

[Linsul]

There is in my opinion a flawed logic with the consumer mentality when it comes to team gymnastics. Divide out what you pay per hour to your gym. In most cases you could not get a teenage babysitter for that amount of money. Yet for 4 something an hour (your mileage may vary) you are getting trained professionals to teach your child a complicated sport, with the added benefits of character building, child psychology, mentoring, etc.

In our area you would pay more for afterschool care at your childs own school, a buch of kids playing on the filthy lunchroom floor. So it can be seen as an insult to say you want to make sure you are getting your moneys worth. If you are on a reasonably decent team in the states then you are getting your moneys worth. Usually much more. Thanks to a bunch of crazy passionate people who love this sport and love working with kids enough to work for low wages.

The Little Gym and Gymboree are businesses, competitive team is not.

Amen!

My other thought when reading the OP was that dd's coaches are particular and careful about each gymnast training with a focus on correct technique, form and progression. They do not like the girls to just visit another gym where their carefully laid plans could be derailed. We have had girls go to camps, come back and chuck the new skill they learned while away. The coaches spent more time reteaching the skill correctly, than they would have if they had been the ones to teach it in the first place. Also, dd's coaches are secretive about some of their training techniques. They do not want them given away to another team. When we went to visit dd's old gym while on a trip back east we told the 'new' coaches, asked what she could work on while there, double checked she knew her setting for bars and vault, etc. Coaches were very nice about it, but reminded us not to talk too much about how they train or spot. It made me chuckle because I do not think I could put how her gym works into words. I may have been a gym-mom for 8+ years, but I am still clueless about many things...

That's been a biggie in my world. Gymnasts learn and perform at varying rates of speed and success, at it's most bare, a gyms method of instruction is it's 'brand'. KFC keeps those 11 herbs and spices on better lockdown than gyms do though lol. It gets forgotten sometimes because we don't go around reinventing skills all day, *BUT* the drills to get them to skill success, absolutely! Very changeable. It's very innocent to reveal too. Say a gymnast is at camp, or trying out at another gym and is uncomfortable with a drill. Coach says "well, how do you normally do it?" and there it is. Perfectly natural question, perfectly appropriate reason to ask. The KFC thing is an exaggeration, we know the only way to keep things to ourselves is isolation, which isn't going to happen. I think that's where feelings get involved and hurt. We all want others to show the same level of care for things we care about, but when money, time, and children are involved, the brand is usually what gets trampled. Gyms that care a lot about this, or who have been 'burned' in the past, etc. react by doing all the team mobility things and cutting athletes where they have to before getting into what they consider the most intensive, important, or specialized skill training.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes...the "secret" thing made me laugh.