WAG Woodward camp question -- Sleep???

[coachmolly]

I worked as a camp counselor for years and an 11pm bedtime seems a little crazy, especially for kids that are working out for a good portion of the day. Even when I worked with teenage boys they were in bed- or at least moving in that direction- by around 10pm. And they were so beat from a day full of activities that there were no complaints, plus they knew it was an early wake-up call in the morning. Not that I think you can do anything to change the bedtime, it is what it is, just seems bizarre to me. But I guess they feel like it's working for them.

I would just let it go, let her take a look at the schedule beforehand and work out a game plan for herself. They probably have a pretty detailed schedule online so she can see what activities happen when- when she needs to be in the gym, what activities she might be willing to miss to take some rest time, etc. Remind her how much sleep she typically gets at home before practice (and what happens when she doesn't get adequate sleep) and let her make the call for herself. But do make sure she knows it's okay to take a break or some time to recharge!

 

[MILgymFAM]

My girls are accustomed to a full 10 hours of sleep a night too (they're 13 and 15), but that never, ever happens at sleep away camp. They always manage just fine. Yes, they're usually cranky the first day/night but they sleep hard when they hit their beds and are fine by the next day. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Kids are pretty darn adaptive.

 

[bogwoppit]

At 13 she is ready to learn to manage herself and listen to her body. Not that long until she goes off to college and learning to take care of her own needs is a hugely important skill. Mine went to gym camp from age 7, they learned to look after themselves pretty quick and I know those skills worked when they moved away at 17 for college.

Time to hack off those apron strings.

 

[AMBrown]

This will be our 3rd summer attending Woodward PA - it's a great camp! That said, we go as a team (so 20-30 kids each summer) and we have the girls in one cabin (olders on one side, youngers on the other.) Our cabin moms try to have lights out by 10; but of course, it's summer camp and its fun and novel, so there is lots of giggling and craziness the first few nights. The kids figure it out pretty quickly though, and they go to sleep earlier and earlier each night! Our cabin also gets up pretty early to do chores and get breakfast, so they find a good balance in the schedule. I think everyone manages just fine.

 

[emorymom]

At 13 she is ready to learn to manage herself and listen to her body. Not that long until she goes off to college and learning to take care of her own needs is a hugely important skill. Mine went to gym camp from age 7, they learned to look after themselves pretty quick and I know those skills worked when they moved away at 17 for college.

Time to hack off those apron strings.

I don't need someone to MAKE her go to bed at 9. I need someone to ALLOW her to go to bed at nine if she is going to be woken at 7 day after day. It's the fact that she does listen to her body and is mature and responsible that made her get a pretty bad frowny face when the "lights out at 11, up at 7" thing came up.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I was a cabin mom at Woodward once and while "lights out" is 11, they have to be in their cabin at 10 and she could easily go to her cabin earlier than that and go to sleep at 10. No one is preventing her from napping during the day, or from getting in bed early. Have her pick a bunk in a corner away from the door if she can so there will be less traffic around her bed.

 

[bogwoppit]

I don't need someone to MAKE her go to bed at 9. I need someone to ALLOW her to go to bed at nine if she is going to be woken at 7 day after day. It's the fact that she does listen to her body and is mature and responsible that made her get a pretty bad frowny face when the "lights out at 11, up at 7" thing came up.

Having had kids at camp for years, they could go to bed as early as they wanted. That was never an issue. Hand her an eye mask and ear plugs and she will be good to go.

 

[Madden3]

Some people simply need more overall sleep than others, more regular sleep than others, etc. Sleep needs vary person to person- including among babies and children and teens of all ages as well as adults. Also not everyone can fall asleep surrounded by awake people. Sleep is a vulnerable state.

Anyway, I have talked to my son about his experience at Woodward more, and what frustrated him about being (accidentally) in the early bedtime cabin is that even though he was 11, he was not allowed to stay up later, and the camp does some late night activities (movies, talent show, dodgeball) and he had to leave before these ended, and that frustrated him as he was having fun. It would have been better if he had had the choice of bedtime. However, he still had a great time at camp, he was there to do lots of gymnastics and that is what he focused on.

So, I think if your daughter is happy to be in the earlier bedtime cabin and the camp allows it, I think that is a good solution. It would be nice if they also gave her some flexibility, maybe that could be arranged somehow.

 

[azara]

As you said, your daughter is mature and responsible. She's also 13, so not that long until she moves away for uni! Crazy how time flies...anyway, the point is, at her age and maturity level, she will be able to have discussions with the people running the camp, and sort out a solution for herself. I'm sure that as a parent, you want to make sure that she has the best possible time, and that's a great thing, of course. But your comments remind me of what my mum said to me the other day, since I moved out of home at the beginning of this year. She said to me that there are some times where you just have to accept that you have raised your child well enough, and equipped her with what she needs, to resolve her own potential problems.

This is a pretty minor issue, so a good starting point for that learning curve. It takes two sides: she needs to accept that she will have to resolve a problem, and you need to accept that you have given her the skills she needs to do that.

Sorry if that came off as a little preachy, I didn't mean for it to. I hope you can understand my point

On an entirely separate note, I can't imagine a camp where kids are running amok at 11pm - as others have said, they surely are at least in cabins or quiet time earlier than that. So it sounds like it shouldn't really be an issue anyway?

 

[sce]

On an entirely separate note, I can't imagine a camp where kids are running amok at 11pm - as others have said, they surely are at least in cabins or quiet time earlier than that. So it sounds like it shouldn't really be an issue anyway?

The schedule I stated was in the cabin by 10pm and lights out at 11pm. So they were not running around at 11pm.

 

[sce]

I too agree that at 13 yo, she can figure out for herself what she needs and how to take care of it. It's a week, a great time for her to exercise her independence.

 

[Bess]

On an entirely separate note, I can't imagine a camp where kids are running amok at 11pm -

Am I the only one that immediately chanted

"Amok, amok, amok" out loud?

 

[twinmomma]

I don't need someone to MAKE her go to bed at 9. I need someone to ALLOW her to go to bed at nine if she is going to be woken at 7 day after day. It's the fact that she does listen to her body and is mature and responsible that made her get a pretty bad frowny face when the "lights out at 11, up at 7" thing came up.

The reality is, come high school/college she's not going to be able to go to bed at 9 and be up at 7 unless you're homeschooling her. And even then, once she starts working, even as a college student, she's going to have to study late nights and get up for work or class early the next morning. At 13, it's great that she listens to her body but she also is going to have to learn to start living in a world that doesn't always allow for bed at 9 and wake at 7. If she has an 8 am meet where she has to be there by 7 is she in bed by 6?

The thing is, if we were talking about a 7 year old, I'd be way more concerned. She's 13, old enough to take control and go take a nap or old enough to figure out how to manage on a bit less sleep for a week and make the most of it.

 

[beachgirl]

When my daughter went to Woodward a few years ago that was her big complaint, there was too much time to do nothing. Can't your daughter just go take a nap?

 

[azara]

I'm interested, what is the "amok" reference?

 

[ladybird]

I'm interested, what is the "amok" reference?

It's from the movie "Hocus Pocus" with Bette Midler and Sarah Jessica Parker.

 

[emorymom]

The reality is, come high school/college she's not going to be able to go to bed at 9 and be up at 7 unless you're homeschooling her. And even then, once she starts working, even as a college student, she's going to have to study late nights and get up for work or class early the next morning. At 13, it's great that she listens to her body but she also is going to have to learn to start living in a world that doesn't always allow for bed at 9 and wake at 7. If she has an 8 am meet where she has to be there by 7 is she in bed by 6?

Does she go to bed early on meet nights? Of course, whenever possible. Six would be more like 12 hours of sleep. If she has to get up early not crazy-early she will go to bed closer to 8 than her usual 9:30.

Will she be sleep deprived in high school? I hope not. I fail to see how the athlete/actor school with core classes from 8:10-12:35 and practice over by 6 will keep her from getting a good night's sleep most nights unless she chooses not to do schoolwork on the weekends. Her choice. In middle school she does work Sat-Sun to keep her stress low during the week.

In her experience with past camp, she had little flexibility to nap or sleep outside of the 9 hours set aside for light's out. I'm glad to hear she might have some choices to sleep outside light's out hours if she is able to go.

When my daughter went to Woodward a few years ago that was her big complaint, there was too much time to do nothing. Can't your daughter just go take a nap?

I don't know what's allowed or practicable. Hence the post. The schedule looked full. I'm glad there might be some quiet time in the cabin to go catch up.

I have one child whose needs are more flexible and one child whose needs are less so but are inside what is actually medically recommended for her age let alone athletes. A predictor of injury in high school athletes is sleep under 8 hours, yet camp for athletes only provides 8 hours of lights-out so not facilitating over 8 hours. I'm having flashbacks to friends whose children are all gifted explaining that four AP classes a year, algebra in the 5th grade common core, etc. is fine and dandy because their kids are doing just fine. I'm not saying she won't do just fine if she can carve out naptime. But don't the counselors want the decreased behavioral concerns, etc. seen in teens who get adequate sleep? Seems like the counselors would appreciate light's out at 9.

 

[Flyaway]

I can appreciate your concern, but it's only a week. My experience with camp is that the kids are usually so hyped up on adrenaline the first few days, they have a hard time sleeping anyway. By the time the middle of the week hits then they're so exhausted they get a really good night's sleep for at least one night. Then the last night comes and they're hyped up again. After that they go home and sleep for a week. It will be fine.

 

[kayjaybe]

I can appreciate your concern, but it's only a week. My experience with camp is that the kids are usually so hyped up on adrenaline the first few days, they have a hard time sleeping anyway. By the time the middle of the week hits then they're so exhausted they get a really good night's sleep for at least one night. Then the last night comes and they're hyped up again. After that they go home and sleep for a week. It will be fine.

You just described my dd's Woodward week to a T. The car ride up at 6:30 AM is full of energy and chatter. The car ride home at the end of the week is almost silent. LOL

 

[sce]

I have one child whose needs are more flexible and one child whose needs are less so but are inside what is actually medically recommended for her age let alone athletes. A predictor of injury in high school athletes is sleep under 8 hours, yet camp for athletes only provides 8 hours of lights-out so not facilitating over 8 hours. I'm having flashbacks to friends whose children are all gifted explaining that four AP classes a year, algebra in the 5th grade common core, etc. is fine and dandy because their kids are doing just fine. I'm not saying she won't do just fine if she can carve out naptime. But don't the counselors want the decreased behavioral concerns, etc. seen in teens who get adequate sleep? Seems like the counselors would appreciate light's out at 9.

First, camp is a choice. Don't like thus camps schedule, you don't have to go. Second, the counselors are young adults, who have to be in the cabin from the in the cabin time until breakfast time. Most kids don't settle dune to sleep as early as yours, so they would just be in the cabin lol beef with a bunch of excited youth. Third, the counselors don't set the schedule. Fourth, it is one week.

My dd was 10yo and 12yo when she went to Woodward West. She too is a kid who needs a lot of sleep. I am sure she did not get all the sleep she needed at camp. But she got more some nights than others and definitely was slow to get up each morning. She also functioned fine for that one weak. Did not feel too tired to work out and had a fabulous time at camp. She slept a ton after coming home to recover but has those memories of camp to last a lifetime. Along with the life skills she gained from being in her own at camp.