WAG Would Love An Analysis - L4 Bars

[munchkin3]

DD had a meet a few weeks ago and scored low, 8.775 (or so) and she had what I thought was a very nice routine....I was thinking more like 9.25, LOL if I could only judge her right?!!!
She was nailed on the tap swings with excessive piking. And torso shape too. I'm sure there were a few other tenths that mommy overlooked...we stopped caring about scoring a while ago, but I guess sometimes it still stings.....

 

[sevenatenine2]

Wow, what beautiful casts.

She could improve her glide. Her feet aren't really in front of her, but dragged behind her. Almost like she is dong a long hang kip on the low bar because she's so small. Her feet should be in a pike or straddle in front of her.

We moved to XCEL instead of 4, so I'm not an expert, but another place she could improve is her underswing. Look at the first video in the thread. The gymnast has a beautiful underswing. Pause the video at the end of that kick and you will see hips to the bar and toes way, way above the bar. You daughter drops her hips too early.

Also, the shaping on the tap swings, but you mentioned that. I feel like she'll be in the 9s soon! That's a nice routine!

 

[coachmolly]

That is a nice routine! I agree with sevenatenine2, the glide is a deduction (maybe around .2-.3). Her casts are very nice! I'm guessing they took a little deduction for her swing into the long hang kip (swing needs to be to "near horizontal"). A little for being a pit pikey on the back hip circle and a bit for the underswing and tap swings, but a very nice routine so far!
Just curious, did she place well for that routine? A high 8 on level 4 bars is very respectable in some areas for so early in the season.

 

[munchkin3]

She didn't even place.
Our state sucks for the average to high average gymnast. All the girls have been working on their tap swings, and I consider it an error on the coaches part, because all the girls look the same.......no matter though, he is fixing it. She has worked so hard on that routine, and I would say it was quite nice, but her reward was zilch.
I want her to get to Optionals quickly where the nickel and diming won't be so bad. We have a 10 yo L 10 who never extended her glide kips....she always stays a bit pikey, but this stuff matters in compulsory. Not so much in optionals.
In our state, you must look exactly like the USAG video, or better to get above 9.50.

 

[coachmolly]

I'm guessing she's in one of those tough younger age groups too. Though with a few small fixes she should be right up there. It sounds like she comes from a gym that focuses on good basics but a quick run to optionals rather than working towards compulsory perfection and not much else. But it's good her tap swings are getting some attention, she'll need those!

 

[munchkin3]

No actually they don't like rushing to optionals. But the do uptrain so they don't die of boredom.
I think she is probably the worst age group. The young 9s.
We already have completely gotten to the thinking that this is close to the end of her compulsories so not to worry about placement. L4 is the level with the most kids, therefore the hardest to 'win' or place or whatever....my DD understands that there are many girls competing L4, who are basically getting ready to compete L7 and they are repeating until they have the skills to move. She has been doing L4 since June, and wants to move to L5 in the spring, and then 6. Her personal goal is to get over a 36 which is very respectable in our state, with 6 months under her belt.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

DD had a meet a few weeks ago and scored low, 8.775 (or so) and she had what I thought was a very nice routine....I was thinking more like 9.25, LOL if I could only judge her right?!!!
She was nailed on the tap swings with excessive piking. And torso shape too. I'm sure there were a few other tenths that mommy overlooked...we stopped caring about scoring a while ago, but I guess sometimes it still stings.....

=

thats about right, she does bend her arms in both kips as well and bend them on the squat on. Amongst a few other little things. Fix that and get her to squeeze her butt in her swings her score will go up .5 easily.

 

[raenndrops]

Not from the US so don't know how this particular level is judged. But as a judge in the UK, I would take deductions for the above. But also for lack of distance on dismount, second hand barely touching bar on dismount (incomplete turn), potentially the pause on the low bar before the squat on and maybe for lack of correct shape in the tap swings.
Hope this helps.

the second hand is only supposed to tap the bar. they get deducted if they grab the bar.

 

[munchkin3]

I thought they were supposed to grab and push off ( in a perfect world) . I know the shapes need work. Weirdly enough, she is the only one in her level that can do strap bar Giants on her own from 2 or 3 swings, and her tap swing changes completely. Like I said though, she want to do optionals next summer. I think she is on the right track and I don't care if she 'wins'. She already is winning...

 

[gymgal]

I want her to get to Optionals quickly where the nickel and diming won't be so bad. We have a 10 yo L 10 who never extended her glide kips....she always stays a bit pikey, but this stuff matters in compulsory. Not so much in optionals.

just to prepare you - All the things she is doing matters in optionals too. She will get deducted for pikey-ness and bent arms on kips. deducted for casts not at hs, pikey-ness in tap swings. It is all still there in optionals. It's just that by the time they get to optionals (well, L7), they have polished these skills (or at least they should have) enough that the deductions will be minimal. If a girl is still having these errors, you can bet they will be tenth to death as well... I have seen it happen in meets.

 

[vagymmomma]

^^^ is very true for optionals ... and a whole lot more. It's really important to get the basic forms down.

 

[wallflower]

I was just about to say the same thing ^^^^^^. Good form is a must in optionals. When people talk about compulsories vs optionals it doesn't mean you can suddenly get away with sloppy skills, just that you won't get killed on arms being up instead of down or little things that are specific to a compulsory routine. I think bars ends up being pretty compulsory for quite a few more years. Almost everyone does the same routine.

 

[gymgal]

I was just about to say the same thing ^^^^^^. Good form is a must in optionals. When people talk about compulsories vs optionals it doesn't mean you can suddenly get away with sloppy skills, just that you won't get killed on arms being up instead of down or little things that are specific to a compulsory routine. I think bars ends up being pretty compulsory for quite a few more years. Almost everyone does the same routine.

very true. and the little differences make a difference in L6-8 - Casts that hit exact HS will score just a little better than those that are almost S, even though technically there is no deduction for being within 10* of HS. Same with Clear hips. Optionals scoring really helps girls who have good form but just can't remember the intricacies of the dance portions of the compulsory. Do you turn to the left or right, does the split jump or tuck jump come first? In optionals, this doesn't matter because the judge doesn't know what your routine is supposed to look like. Also gymnasts who just don't have that tight robotic look in the dance moves (beam) can get away with more fluid movement depending on your routine. But absolutely, your form for the skills has to be spot on or you will get deducted just like you do in compulsory.

 

[Sasha]

My DD(8) is a pretty good judge! lol. Without reading ahead, she judged @Becauseisaid 's routine at 8.0-8.3, and @munchkin3 at 8.9. We're in a tougher scoring region, for context. 1st place routines at states are most often between 9.3-9.5 (not the crazy 9.8's that seem to be prevalent among the podium placers in many areas).

Thanks to both of you for sharing! Lots of good critiques and advice in the replies that is helpful to read.

 

[munchkin3]

Thanks! becauseisaid sorry I hijacked your post, but I think we had similar questions. I agree that optionals are not meant to replace sloppy gymnastics, I just mean that the details in the compulsories are not as important in optionals, SKILLS however must be mature and solid. From my standpoint, a solid L4 gymnast will hopefully have nice optional skills because of the time spent working. Figure if both my DD and becauseisaid DD can do a CHS now, in another year they are ready to compete that CHS. Before that happens, kips must be rock solid, and tap swings must be mature......it's all time and practice. I don't believe in rushing compulsory gymnastics, but I also don't believe in leaving kids in a level for 2+years.

 

[profmom]

The thing we discovered about optionals is that for kids who aren't naturally super strong, the only way they're going to make the skills is if they clean up the form. DD's form HAD to improve for her to be able to cast to handstand, make giants, crank around a full twist, land a decent BHS on beam, etc.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I'm a geek. Which means that I like to know where deductions are being seen by the judges. Sometimes I can figure them out. Sometimes I can't. So I'd love for any judges or experiences coaches to give me their thoughts on the deductions and how they would score this routine. (Don't worry - I'm not coaching, just curious.)

was that Gary Anderson pulling the board??? hahahahaha we go back forever. and like me, he's still coaching little ones.

 

[Becauseisaid]

was that Gary Anderson pulling the board???

Bob Valley.

 

[aerials]

Tap swing piking?? If my dd doesn't pike when going over the low bar her feet will hit it.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Tap swing piking?? If my dd doesn't pike when going over the low bar her feet will hit it.

You can bend in the hips but it needs to be rounded, all they have to do is squeeze their butts during the pike phase and it rounds the whole thing. No sharp angles.