MAG Xcel

[samsmama]

JD=Junior Development

It's a new program added last year for boys that serves as an alternative to competing optional levels or a stepping stone for boys who are between optional levels. It's so new that gyms are still figuring out how best to use it, but it seems to have been a good addition for older boys.

 

[3crazymonkeys]

Our gym actually started this last season. They only did a couple non-sanctioned meets and then state. There were a couple other gyms in our area that had some boys as well. They were a completely different session to themselves. We have started to invite more boys to the xcel rather then level 4. So our level 4 is staying small with just the young more talented ones. We do not have them as part of the regular team, paying team fees etc. They pay for meets they want to attend at time of registration for that meet. So definitely more of a rec program at our gym. We do have JD as well and they are very much part of our regular team. Our Xcel is called Xtreme so definitely makes it sound more "cool". It will be interesting to see how it goes as it improves and grows.

 

[Sasha]

They pay for meets they want to attend at time of registration for that meet. So definitely more of a rec program at our gym. We do have JD as well and they are very much part of our regular team. Our Xcel is called Xtreme so definitely makes it sound more "cool".

More flexibility for boys to select which meets they attend is KEY in my opinion, to the success of an Xcel program. Boys do tend to be involved in multiple sports, even more than girls, and the lack of flexibility of meets has driven quite a few away from JO (having to "choose their 1 sport" way too soon). Division II doesn't solve that problem, nor the increasing hours of JO. Xcel (Xtreme!) could really be a boon if positioned right...

 

[sce]

We had so few div2 and JD boys in our highly populated state. I can't imagine now also having Xcel too.

 

[Sasha]

We had so few div2 and JD boys in our highly populated state. I can't imagine now also having Xcel too.

Always a concern. Hopefully, this won't divide them further, but will help ADD boys into MAG by offering a lower commitment option. So many boys quit because they get to level 4/5 and the hours get too much, and the weekend meets collide with Baseball and other sports. Boy (or parent, often Dad) needs to make a choice, and if the gym isn't flexible enough, or boy starts to feel he is falling behind, they drop gym.

As well, there are a number of boys I have known that aren't necessarily the most athletically inclined, not as naturally strong, etc, and gymnastics is SO good for them, and their parents would love to see them enjoy a sport and compete, but they are not 'keeping up' with JO gymnasts in that competitive setting. Even Div II is still high hours and high expectations for many boys. Xcel could be perfect for these kids, who could have a sport, compete a very light set of routines, and still be able to have their other activities.

I see lots of possibilities in increasing MAG numbers.... Of course, how it is framed (including marketed and the selection process alongside JO) and implemented (including how meets are run, attention given to athletes in gym, etc) will really be the kicker here..

 

[skschlag]

More flexibility for boys to select which meets they attend is KEY in my opinion, to the success of an Xcel program. Boys do tend to be involved in multiple sports, even more than girls, and the lack of flexibility of meets has driven quite a few away from JO (having to "choose their 1 sport" way too soon). Division II doesn't solve that problem, nor the increasing hours of JO. Xcel (Xtreme!) could really be a boon if positioned right...

LOL> I hope they don't go with 'Xtreme'

 

[profmom]

I do worry a little about the dad problem. I know a few guys who are in JO because they love gym and are swimming against the tide of some significant parental pressure. I'd guess that at least some of them -- some of whom are pretty darn good gymnasts! -- might take the Xcel path as a compromise solution and give Dad the baseball/football he wants.

 

[CoachS]

I honestly think this could be a great way to get boys who cannot commit to the hours for a J.O. or J.D. program to be able to compete gymnastics. I'm thinking of transitioning our Men's Advanced Classes and e-mailing a couple of parents of gymnasts who quit due to the aforementioned reason and getting one going. Just need to get the bosses on board first! (...and maybe another set of p-bars, lol) Wish me luck!

 

[raenndrops]

I do worry a little about the dad problem. I know a few guys who are in JO because they love gym and are swimming against the tide of some significant parental pressure. I'd guess that at least some of them -- some of whom are pretty darn good gymnasts! -- might take the Xcel path as a compromise solution and give Dad the baseball/football he wants.

There is actually a boy in our region who is currently competing Girls Xcel so he can also do football and baseball (the nearest gym with a boys program is over 60 miles away and with all the time it would take just in driving, not to mention practicing, he wouldn't be able to play the other sports.

 

[Sasha]

There is actually a boy in our region who is currently competing Girls Xcel so he can also do football and baseball (the nearest gym with a boys program is over 60 miles away and with all the time it would take just in driving, not to mention practicing, he wouldn't be able to play the other sports.

How does he do that for competitions? Does he compete on girls' equipment? Or they bring in pbars and a mushroom or...?

 

[raenndrops]

How does he do that for competitions? Does he compete on girls' equipment? Or they bring in pbars and a mushroom or...?

He competes following Xcel Gold rules … women's equipment.
I only encountered him at Regionals (and was able to talk to his coaches while he and his teammate waited for beam).
For most of our meets, including Regionals, ties are not broken.AND we do not "skip" a place to account for a tie (There could be a tie at 1st and another at 2nd, and 3rd, etc).
He gets awarded PARALLEL to the girls, meaning his scores cannot displace a girl, but he is not in his own age group.
At Regionals, he did well.
Vault - 1st Place, 9.35 (the girl that got 9.275 also was awarded 1st … so it was like there was a tie).
Bars - 5th Place, in a legitimate tie (meaning lower places did not need adjusted from the posted meet results - the score management software doesn't know how to deal with parallel placement).
Beam - 8th Place, in a legitimate tie.
Floor - 2nd Place, in a legitimate tie.
All Around - 3rd Place 35.75 (awarded parallel to the girl with the 35.5 who also earned 3rd place).

 

[Sasha]

He competes following Xcel Gold rules … women's equipment.
I only encountered him at Regionals (and was able to talk to his coaches while he and his teammate waited for beam).
For most of our meets, including Regionals, ties are not broken.AND we do not "skip" a place to account for a tie (There could be a tie at 1st and another at 2nd, and 3rd, etc).
He gets awarded PARALLEL to the girls, meaning his scores cannot displace a girl, but he is not in his own age group.
At Regionals, he did well.
Vault - 1st Place, 9.35 (the girl that got 9.275 also was awarded 1st … so it was like there was a tie).
Bars - 5th Place, in a legitimate tie (meaning lower places did not need adjusted from the posted meet results - the score management software doesn't know how to deal with parallel placement).
Beam - 8th Place, in a legitimate tie.
Floor - 2nd Place, in a legitimate tie.
All Around - 3rd Place 35.75 (awarded parallel to the girl with the 35.5 who also earned 3rd place).

Wow. Well, I applaud this young man, his family, and the Xcel community for making this work for him!

I will always shudder a little thinking about Boys on BEAM.... .... But good on him!

 

[raenndrops]

Wow. Well, I applaud this young man, his family, and the Xcel community for making this work for him!

I will always shudder a little thinking about Boys on BEAM.... .... But good on him!

Its actually more the YMCA community that allowed it, but all the same

 

[sce]

Looking at the rules, it looks like Xcel for boys could be done in a gym with a mainly girls program. At least bronze and silver, as hey can use the girls bars and pblocks for PBars. Maybe this will get some gyms to start a boys team!

 

[dancemom]

A teammate who moved away last year just returned for summer training. He apparently competed a version of boys' Xcel last season, and his mom was thrilled with it. They now live in a mountainous ski area, where most boys are on ski team (same season as gym comps), and it allowed the boys at that gym to stay active in both sports. I don't have many details, though, about how the program was run.

 

[LLmom]

Not xcel related, but parental support related...

John Rothlisberger has a meet named after him in MN every year. Every year he gives the same speech and thanks the parents, because he "knows the day they were born they gazed into the eyes of their baby boy and thought "yes! I finally have my gymnast!"" It always seems both hilarious and a little sad all at once. How about we just find joy in the things our boys find joy in, rather than in the things we think they should stereotypically love. And ps...have you ever seen an athlete stronger than a men's gymnast?!? Nope!

It seemed to me that the JD and division2 thing took a season to start to be well-understood. I suspect this will be the same? I'm all for anything that keeps kids active and doing the things they love and if this does it for MAG then awesome.

 

[rosiekat]

I do worry a little about the dad problem. I know a few guys who are in JO because they love gym and are swimming against the tide of some significant parental pressure. I'd guess that at least some of them -- some of whom are pretty darn good gymnasts! -- might take the Xcel path as a compromise solution and give Dad the baseball/football he wants.

Yes, we just had a super talented, "in age" kid quit when they were transitioned from L5 to L6 - gym needed too much time and the kid (but IMO, mostly the dad) wanted to spend more time on football, baseball, and golf. I say mostly the dad, because kid hadn't even played golf till this summer, and I had to listen to the kid gripe about baseball. I do think football was honestly the kid's first love, and may eventually have won out anyway, but the kid seemed to really love gym. I wonder if he'd have stuck with it if there were a less time-sucking alternative.

I've seen it happen with other kids, too, but he was the one who stuck out the most. He won a spot to the State All-Star Camp for L5, but didn't go because of quitting, and his mom says he's still doing handstands all over the place.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I do kind of wonder where the coaching will come from. I hope it doesn't suck away more of the already limited men's coaches.

 

[Sasha]

Morphing the topic a bit, but more thoughts on 'the Dad problem' and how to attract and retain boys into MAG...

#1: As we all know, Dads (and moms) rarely even know men's gym is a thing. I know we didn't! Or they equate it with girls' style and assume they dance around with ribbons to cutesy music... But I have seen Dads 'converted' after seeing a boys' competition. One example sticks out - we were at a large meet where there were girls in one flight and boys in the other, and a Dad was standing there watching our team warm up on Rings. I casually asked what team his son was on, and he noted he had a girl in the other flight (Xcel actually), but he "couldn't believe the stuff these boys are doing - how strong they are.. etc." He was truly in awe. We had a brief chat, and it was clear his eyes had been opened to the benefits for boys. He had no idea this was what 'boys gymnastics' was about. I've had other convos along these lines after a friend Dad sees a video of my son competing and is like, "What??? My son would love that!"

Watching the chaos of training is one thing, but seeing an army of boys in action, looking sharp and serious, in uniforms, with muscles and cool tricks on display in full force.... now that can be compelling to win over the Dads. We need more opps for Dads to see competitions - maybe Xcel can help with that, and maybe there are other ways to get MAG competitions (not just training) into the spotlight...

#2: Dads, in particular, have dreams of helping/coaching their sons in sports - tossing the ball in the backyard, playing goalie for them, etc... Most dads are going to be 'left out' if their son chooses gymnastics. Dads are "Doers"! They want to "Do"! Not just "Support". What could gyms/coaches/USAG do in MAG world to help Dads be more a part of their sons gymnastics experience and training? How could early programs be designed to include them? Just brainstorming here, but I think this is a key part of the problem. Even CB mantras are "Just feed them, drop them off, and don't ask questions." But Dads (and many Moms, but focusing on Dads now) want to be involved in their sons' sports. They want to understand the rules, help 'coach' their kids in some kind of way. The whole atmosphere of gym world excludes this fundamental drive that men (Dads) have to pitch in and be a part of their kids' sports journeys. How could this be improved? Could this also help supplement coaching for intro levels with motivated Dads who can become more a part of their sons' sport?

Some food for thought.

 

[Madden3]

I like the way you think Sasha. Nothing is served by making Dads (or moms) the bad guys. I think that some parents encourage their children to do other sports or do not have MAG on the radar because USAG has done a reprehensibly poor job with promoting MAG. From the pathetic MAG Olympics/international meet coverage, to non-existent college meet coverage, to the pathetic lack of college teams in the three divisions, to the lack of any kind of visibility/support for MAG athletes in and by high schools, is it any wonder gym looks like a poor choice for boys? I think if a parent has an athletic, hard working, and competition loving child who might enjoy multiple sports, they have every reason to think MAG is not going to be the best choice.

 

[Sasha]

I like the way you think Sasha. Nothing is served by making Dads (or moms) the bad guys. I think that some parents encourage their children to do other sports or do not have MAG on the radar because USAG has done a reprehensibly poor job with promoting MAG. From the pathetic MAG Olympics/international meet coverage, to non-existent college meet coverage, to the pathetic lack of college teams in the three divisions, to the lack of any kind of visibility/support for MAG athletes in and by high schools, is it any wonder gym looks like a poor choice for boys? I think if a parent has an athletic, hard working, and competition loving child who might enjoy multiple sports, they have every reason to think MAG is not going to be the best choice.

All true on the poor marketing front

It is interesting, as right now, with American Ninja Warrior and other physical battle type programming smack dab in the US consumer spotlight and GYMNASTS shining in these competitions - it's a prime opportunity to bridge that success and promote mens/boys gymnastics programs!! While, yes, Ninja/Parkour gyms and programs are opening up (which is great for boys and girls), I'm not often seeing the marketing and programming tie-ins with MAG (Artistic), and I'm not seeing much top-down, organizational messaging that would be reaching the average consumer. It's more as if "Ninja/Parkour" is "separate" from MAG, rather than a complementary or unified training system. So much more they could be doing here...

ETA: of course Ninja/Parkour do have separate elements than MAG and are different 'sports' in that sense, but I am saying that the successful Ninja/Parkour guys often have a MAG Background, and this tie-in can help make MAG interesting, accessible, and 'cool' for boys.