WAG YouTube/instagram fame and NCAA

[amiandjim]

Stampy Longnose!

I'm pretty sure my 8 year-old thinks she and Stampy will be getting married some day

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Stampy Longnose!

Yep and Jen and other guy

 

[azara]

Well, I'm sure a big component of it is that many of those people wish it was THEM that people were having discussions about on YouTube. A little bit of vicarious living don't you think?

I don't think this is necessarily true. Perhaps gym parents would watch these and hope their families could be just as seemingly perfect as the YouTube ones, but that's not actually the fan base. The fan bases of these channels is primarily kids, as you've all mentioned. I doubt there are many adults watching Bratayley's content for fun, because it's not geared towards them at all.

Also, people watch videos for all kinds of reasons. Personally I enjoy watching meet videos, hence why I am familiar with both of these channels. I'm an 18 year old rec gymnast. I have no interest in being on YouTube, I assure you, and I'm a uni student with a very busy life who certainly wouldn't have time for that stuff anyway. No vicarious living here. I don't think it's fair to argue people watching YouTube videos for a multitude of reasons all secretly wish they were famous. If I'm honest, it's mildly demeaning.

 

[Flyaway]

I don't think this is necessarily true. Perhaps gym parents would watch these and hope their families could be just as seemingly perfect as the YouTube ones, but that's not actually the fan base. The fan bases of these channels is primarily kids, as you've all mentioned. I doubt there are many adults watching Bratayley's content for fun, because it's not geared towards them at all.

Also, people watch videos for all kinds of reasons. Personally I enjoy watching meet videos, hence why I am familiar with both of these channels. I'm an 18 year old rec gymnast. I have no interest in being on YouTube, I assure you, and I'm a uni student with a very busy life who certainly wouldn't have time for that stuff anyway. No vicarious living here. I don't think it's fair to argue people watching YouTube videos for a multitude of reasons all secretly wish they were famous. If I'm honest, it's mildly demeaning.

I read the original post you quoted as thinking it's the PARENTS of these YouTube kids that wish people were talking about them. Not the viewers. And that's why they'd be promoting their kids in this way. In that case it certainly could be vicarious living. But maybe I read it wrong.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

That's how I took it too. That the parents love the attention because they're living vicariously through their children. But when I re read it, I could see how Azara took it the way she did.

 

[jenjean70]

Wasn't that the brateley brother?

Yes. I never knew about the Bratayly Vlogs until one of my son's class mate's showed it to me. I understand watching sports and DIY stuff but never quite understood kids watching people live their lives but the kids do....they love this stuff. It takes a lot of work to film and edit your daily existence- I know I can't do it. I'm lucky if I can make one video a week. I try to document my kids sports and vacations. They are our home movies for us and for relatives near and far.

 

[Mish]

I don't think this is necessarily true. Perhaps gym parents would watch these and hope their families could be just as seemingly perfect as the YouTube ones, but that's not actually the fan base. The fan bases of these channels is primarily kids, as you've all mentioned. I doubt there are many adults watching Bratayley's content for fun, because it's not geared towards them at all.

Also, people watch videos for all kinds of reasons. Personally I enjoy watching meet videos, hence why I am familiar with both of these channels. I'm an 18 year old rec gymnast. I have no interest in being on YouTube, I assure you, and I'm a uni student with a very busy life who certainly wouldn't have time for that stuff anyway. No vicarious living here. I don't think it's fair to argue people watching YouTube videos for a multitude of reasons all secretly wish they were famous. If I'm honest, it's mildly demeaning.

This was in response to someone who wrote about why parents would want their child exposed on the videos.
I wasn't talking about the people watching the videos, but about the parents making them. I've watched them also.

 

[azara]

@Mish, thanks for the clarification. I misread your comment and took it to mean that the viewers wanted to live the lives of the children in the videos. I can see your point about the parents living vicariously. Maybe YouTube (and Instagram) is an extension of all those crazy parents who force their children to train really long hours and hard skills when they're young, and are disappointed when they don't win first at every meet.

 

[e'smum]

I had written earlier about Lavar Ball seeking to brand his three basketball playing boys. This just came out about it.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18901427/lavar-ball-seeks-combined-1-billion-shoe-deal-three-sons

this is the most ridiculous thing ever. what a money ***** he is.....

 

[SMH]

My kids just found something on YouTube called 'Bad Baby' which is a pair of sisters, maybe 8 and 10 years old dressed up in footie pajamas and sucking on pacifiers being 'bad' while their dad tries to control them/cleans up after them. It was horrifying- I cannot imagine being an adult and having that out on the web somewhere....funny when you are 10 is not funny when you are an adult on a job hunt.
Made all those tiny gymnasts in home gyms look somewhat normal

 

[2G1B]

FWIW, it looks like Whitney pulled it out at her state meet, fist AA for all of the L9s...

 

[azara]

Just saw the video, highly impressive gymnastics and what a great meet to pull out all the stops at. Her last couple haven't been groundbreaking so I hope she is pleased with this one!

Hope everyone else whose gymnasts competed at states recently had good meets too.

 

[LemonLime]

Below is the actual Q&A from the NCAA about crowdfunding. Please read it instead of blogs because blogs tend to overstate the exception. First, the column hasn't been adopted as an official rule (see 2/15 Management Council Report). In fact, the NCAA Management Council read the Q&A after it had already been published. Second, it applies to SAs and not PSAs. Third, the carve out is limited to outside teams of SAs and the "actual and necessary expenses associated with an athletics event and practice immediately preceding the event, from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests."

Quoted Material:
Crowdfunding: Current NCAA legislation states, a student-athlete's name or picture cannot be used to promote or to solicit funds for a commercial product or service of any kind. This prohibition applies to traditional, brick-and-mortar businesses, commercial websites, for-profit crowdfunding sites and other online businesses that seek to use a student-athlete's name, picture or likeness for any commercial purpose (e.g., promotion, generation of revenue). Further, a student-athlete may not use his or her name, picture or athletics reputation to solicit funds through a personal online profile or crowdfunding site, except as permitted by NCAA legislation.

Question No. 1: What is crowdfunding?
Answer: Crowdfunding is the practice of funding a project or venture by raising monetary contributions from a large number of people, typically via the internet.

Question No. 2: Is a student-athlete permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise or promote a for-profit crowdfunding service?
Answer: No. A student-athlete is not permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise, recommend or promote directly the sale or use of a commercial product or service of any kind including a crowdfunding entity. A promotion would include a student-athlete's name or picture appearing on a commercial product or service of any kind including a crowdfunding entity.

Question No. 3: Is a student-athlete ineligible for intercollegiate competition if his or her name, picture or likeness appears on a crowdfunding website?
Answer: No, a student-athlete's eligibility would not be impacted until he or she is aware that his or her name or picture appears on a crowdfunding website. Once the student-athlete or the institution become aware that the student-athlete's name or picture is being used to promote a crowdfunding entity, the student-athlete (or the institution acting on behalf of the student-athlete) is required to take steps to stop such an activity (e.g., send a cease and desist letter) in order to retain his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics. If a student-athlete knowingly permits a crowdfunding entity to use his or her name or picture to promote the sale of a commercial product or service, the student-athlete shall not be eligible for participation in intercollegiate athletics …

Question No. 4: Even if a student-athlete's name, picture or likeness is not being used to promote a crowdfunding entity, is a crowdfunding entity permitted to offer a student-athlete compensation for his or her participation in intercollegiate athletics?
Answer: No. A student-athlete who uses his or her athletics skill (directly or indirectly) in a sport for any form of pay loses amateur status and is not eligible for intercollegiate competition in that sport.

Question No. 5: Is a student-athlete's eligibility affected if a crowdfunding entity solicits funds during the student-athlete's collegiate enrollment that are earmarked for the student-athlete upon graduation or exhaustion of athletics eligibility? Answer: Once the student-athlete accepts the promise of pay, the student-athlete has jeopardized his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics, even if the funds will not be disbursed until after completion of his or her intercollegiate athletics participation.

Question No. 6: Is a student-athlete permitted to set up his or her own profile on a crowdfunding website to solicit funds to pay for expenses associated with competition and practice for an outside team?
Answer: Yes. This is permissible because a student-athlete who participates in a sport as a member of a team may receive actual and necessary expenses for competition and practice held in preparation for such competition from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests. A student-athlete who participates as an individual in a sport may receive actual and necessary expenses associated with an athletics event and practice immediately preceding the event, from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests.

Question No. 7: Is a student-athlete permitted to set up his or her own crowdfunding website and use his or her name, picture, athletics reputation or skill to solicit funds to buy items (e.g., laptop, car, food, school supplies, etc.)? Answer: No. A student-athlete loses amateur status and thus shall not be eligible for intercollegiate athletics in a particular sport if he or she uses his or her name, picture, athletics skill or reputation to earn pay in any form in the sport, including funds through a crowdfunding website for items of need.

Question No. 8: Is a student-athlete permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise or promote a charitable crowdfunding service?
Answer: A student-athlete's name or picture may be used by a charitable crowdfunding service provided the following conditions of NCAA Division I Bylaw 12.5.1.1 are met.

[References: Bylaws 12.1.2 (amateur status), 12.1.2.1.4.3 (expenses from an outside sponsor), 12.5.2.1 (advertisements and promotions after becoming a student-athlete) and 12.5.2.2 (use of a student-athlete's name or picture without knowledge or permission)]

 

[duyetanh]

Below is the actual Q&A from the NCAA about crowdfunding. Please read it instead of blogs because blogs tend to overstate the exception. First, the column hasn't been adopted as an official rule (see 2/15 Management Council Report). In fact, the NCAA Management Council read the Q&A after it had already been published. Second, it applies to SAs and not PSAs. Third, the carve out is limited to outside teams of SAs and the "actual and necessary expenses associated with an athletics event and practice immediately preceding the event, from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests."

Quoted Material:
Crowdfunding: Current NCAA legislation states, a student-athlete's name or picture cannot be used to promote or to solicit funds for a commercial product or service of any kind. This prohibition applies to traditional, brick-and-mortar businesses, commercial websites, for-profit crowdfunding sites and other online businesses that seek to use a student-athlete's name, picture or likeness for any commercial purpose (e.g., promotion, generation of revenue). Further, a student-athlete may not use his or her name, picture or athletics reputation to solicit funds through a personal online profile or crowdfunding site, except as permitted by NCAA legislation.

Question No. 1: What is crowdfunding?
Answer: Crowdfunding is the practice of funding a project or venture by raising monetary contributions from a large number of people, typically via the internet.

Question No. 2: Is a student-athlete permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise or promote a for-profit crowdfunding service?
Answer: No. A student-athlete is not permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise, recommend or promote directly the sale or use of a commercial product or service of any kind including a crowdfunding entity. A promotion would include a student-athlete's name or picture appearing on a commercial product or service of any kind including a crowdfunding entity.

Question No. 3: Is a student-athlete ineligible for intercollegiate competition if his or her name, picture or likeness appears on a crowdfunding website?
Answer: No, a student-athlete's eligibility would not be impacted until he or she is aware that his or her name or picture appears on a crowdfunding website. Once the student-athlete or the institution become aware that the student-athlete's name or picture is being used to promote a crowdfunding entity, the student-athlete (or the institution acting on behalf of the student-athlete) is required to take steps to stop such an activity (e.g., send a cease and desist letter) in order to retain his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics. If a student-athlete knowingly permits a crowdfunding entity to use his or her name or picture to promote the sale of a commercial product or service, the student-athlete shall not be eligible for participation in intercollegiate athletics …

Question No. 4: Even if a student-athlete's name, picture or likeness is not being used to promote a crowdfunding entity, is a crowdfunding entity permitted to offer a student-athlete compensation for his or her participation in intercollegiate athletics?
Answer: No. A student-athlete who uses his or her athletics skill (directly or indirectly) in a sport for any form of pay loses amateur status and is not eligible for intercollegiate competition in that sport.

Question No. 5: Is a student-athlete's eligibility affected if a crowdfunding entity solicits funds during the student-athlete's collegiate enrollment that are earmarked for the student-athlete upon graduation or exhaustion of athletics eligibility? Answer: Once the student-athlete accepts the promise of pay, the student-athlete has jeopardized his or her eligibility for intercollegiate athletics, even if the funds will not be disbursed until after completion of his or her intercollegiate athletics participation.

Question No. 6: Is a student-athlete permitted to set up his or her own profile on a crowdfunding website to solicit funds to pay for expenses associated with competition and practice for an outside team?
Answer: Yes. This is permissible because a student-athlete who participates in a sport as a member of a team may receive actual and necessary expenses for competition and practice held in preparation for such competition from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests. A student-athlete who participates as an individual in a sport may receive actual and necessary expenses associated with an athletics event and practice immediately preceding the event, from an outside sponsor other than an agent or a representative of an institution's athletics interests.

Question No. 7: Is a student-athlete permitted to set up his or her own crowdfunding website and use his or her name, picture, athletics reputation or skill to solicit funds to buy items (e.g., laptop, car, food, school supplies, etc.)? Answer: No. A student-athlete loses amateur status and thus shall not be eligible for intercollegiate athletics in a particular sport if he or she uses his or her name, picture, athletics skill or reputation to earn pay in any form in the sport, including funds through a crowdfunding website for items of need.

Question No. 8: Is a student-athlete permitted to use his or her name or picture to advertise or promote a charitable crowdfunding service?
Answer: A student-athlete's name or picture may be used by a charitable crowdfunding service provided the following conditions of NCAA Division I Bylaw 12.5.1.1 are met.

[References: Bylaws 12.1.2 (amateur status), 12.1.2.1.4.3 (expenses from an outside sponsor), 12.5.2.1 (advertisements and promotions after becoming a student-athlete) and 12.5.2.2 (use of a student-athlete's name or picture without knowledge or permission)]

Om...did anyone else's head spin whilst reading all that?

 

[gymbeam]

What does "outside team" mean?

Question No. 6: Is a student-athlete permitted to set up his or her own profile on a crowdfunding website to solicit funds to pay for expenses associated with competition and practice for an outside team?​

 

[LemonLime]

As for gymnasts endorsing commercial products, please understand there is no difference between being paid and unpaid. The focus is on the endorsement itself because of the danger the athlete may receive a benefit beyond a paycheck. In regard to gymnastics, this issue came up with the NCAA during the filming of the movie Stick-It. Gymnasts could not volunteer to be extras, but Liukin appeared as a professional.

There are enumerated exceptions to the commercial products rules, including clothing such as leotards. That's why you see so many national team gymnasts advertising leotards, but not advertising gym mats. You also do not see gymnast names in the leotard catalogs. There is a difference of opinion whether leotard models may receive clothing in exchange for modeling. The team may receive free leotards according to the two biggest leotard manufacturers in the US, but not the individuals. This approach is not uniform.

If the gymnast appears in a NGB-sponsored commercial, such as P&G or Under Armour, exceptions apply even if the gymnast is recognizable.

If a gymnast wants to commercially endorse a product prior to becoming a PSA (July 15 before freshman year), they may request a personal waiver from the NCAA. Such a waiver was granted to Mo'ne Davis who appeared in a Spike Lee Chevrolet commercial at age 13. Although there are no rules on the subject, her situation is instructive. Gymnasts are similar to softball players in that there are "historically limited opportunities for women to participate in professional ..." gymnastics, but gymnasts are recruited at age 13 which is not "much younger than when the vast majority of the prospect rules apply."

ESPN:
"The NCAA staff's decision was made within this process and based on a combination of considerations," [NCAA Spokesperson Emily] James said in the statement. "This waiver narrowly extends the rules -- which allow Davis to accept the payment and still be eligible in any other sport -- to include baseball. The NCAA staff also considered the historically limited opportunities for women to participate in professional baseball. In addition, Davis is much younger than when the vast majority of the prospect rules apply. While this situation is unusual, the flexible approach utilized in this decision is not."

 

[LemonLime]

NCAA
Link Removed

"What is an outside team? For purposes of the outside competition legislation, an outside team is [a]ny team that does not represent the intercollegiate athletics program of the member institution."
"Bylaw 17.02.12 General Rule – Sports Other Than Basketball. A student-athlete who participates during the academic year as a member of any outside team in any noncollegiate, amateur competition becomes ineligible. A student-athlete is permitted to practice."

 

[LemonLime]

As you can see from the NCAA definition, the meaning of "outside team" is hinged on the SA's member institution and the SA's participation with the member institution. The crowdfunding Q&A is written for SAs and uses SA definitions. Trying to bootstrap the Q&A to amateur club sports for PSAs or pre-PSAs (pre-PSAs are not even recognized officially by the NCAA) is a stretch to stay the least, although arguably the public policies behind the two situations *could* be similar.

 

[josie55]

If I'm understanding this correctly, young kids (say younger than 13) can kind of do whatever they want when it comes to endorsing products and services, because they are neither SAs or PSAs? At least according to interpretation of these guidelines?

 

[tomtnt]

If I'm understanding this correctly, young kids (say younger than 13) can kind of do whatever they want when it comes to endorsing products and services, because they are neither SAs or PSAs? At least according to interpretation of these guidelines?

I'm thinking LemonLime is saying the opposite- basically, no one knows what is allowed for PSA and pre-PSA because the NCAA has issued no such guidance. ie, it may or may not affect their eligibility.