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cyclopsmom

Proud Parent
Jul 23, 2016
48
49
I think it is still worth talking to them. This is not ok. After losing someone recently, maybe their ears will prick up if you say the words "loves gym still but is thinking about quitting."

We actually lost two optionals to the gym 120 miles away and our oldest optional is on the fence about quitting altogether. There was also a level 5 (dd's best friend), an extremely talented level 4, and a couple of other level 4's who quit. I'm sure there were more in the lower levels that I don't know about.

I told hc in March that dd was on the fence because hc wanted a commitment for next season with about four days notice. Hc gave us a couple of extra weeks to decide and lots of extra attention for dd, which dd of course loved.

Then once the new season started, dd was the only former level 6 in the lower optional group- training with girls who competed 4 and 5 last year, and even one who competed 2. The other former level 6 girls are all training with former level 7 and 8 girls. It's like dd is still not an optional even though she competed 6 last season.

I warned dd during the decision process that this may happen, as similar groupings have happened before- even when she had scored 36 and had 1st and 2nd place AA results. I let dd continue with it and do my best to support her because she loves it, but it is pretty dysfunctional when I look at it honestly.
 

Seeker

Proud Parent
Aug 30, 2012
6,687
USA
It definitely sounds a bit dysfunctional. Having that awareness will help you navigate this with your daughter. See how she feels when she gets home and you've had some time to decompress. It's definitely not an easy scenario, but I hope you can find a path that works for your daughter.
 

cadybearsmommy

Proud Parent
Dec 31, 2010
1,683
Region 8
I'm so sorry your dd is dealing with this. We've been there and it sucks and dd's feelings were really hurt too. There can be all kinds of favoritism and sometimes it's not even the scores that decide who are the "favorites", dd had the highest score for her level at state last year and still didn't receive an award at her banquet. I wish I had some advice for you, but since switching gyms is not an option, just sending a lot of ((((HUGS)))). And I agree with the previous poster that it wouldn't hurt to let the coach know your dd's feelings were hurt.
 
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ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,440
62
Team banquet and everybody does NOT receive something??? That's awful!
The banquet is a feel good, team building event......I'm so sorry, that's all just wrong.
Yep, around here we would be at a new gym if that happened.

And I would bring it up to the coach. They have all season to beat each other, lose to each other. Team banquet is time for them all to shine.
 

gymgal

Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Aug 22, 2008
4,660
It was certainly insensitive but likely not done purposely. If I were in this position, I would email whoever was in charge of the mess to explain your disappointment and request a meeting to clear the air. It appears that they are thinking your dd will repeat 6? - not moving her to the upper group with all the other 6s, keeping her with the kids who will be competing 6 this coming year, not scoring a 35 all season. The coach saying she is the weakest of the upper group and strongest of the lower group suggests to me that they would prefer to give her another year to gain more confidence - maybe lead the lower group, before moving to 7. That's not a bad thought process for many girls, who would benefit from a "winning" year. I would want clarification on that. You really don't have a choice of another gym unless you are willing to drive 2hrs+ each way and as a L6/7, no way would I even entertain that thought to your dd, who just may jump on it if she likes gymnastics enough.

Here is another thought on the matter too - It appears that your gym only goes to L8? Are there plans to go higher? Are the coaches capable of it? How do the L8's do in competition? If your dd is already a L6, she doesn't have many more years in this gym if they don't train upper optionals. If your dd is already on the fence about gymnastics, I would be wondering if now is the time to cut loose and find another option for her that may allow her to use her favorite part of gymnastics: dance, diving, T&T, etc. Even parkour.

One last bit - the Switch to L6 being considered an optional level is only a few years old. I know as a parent coming up the ranks, it's natural to think of it as "she made it to optionals!" but for coaches and parents who have been around a long time, it is easy to slip back into the L7-10 mentality. Many still feel it isn't "really" optionals because it basically is the same level as L5. So it really is a prep-to-optionals, which is why it was made and why it is not required. You get a feel for some of this in posts on CB and how parents/coaches react to L6. All that can play a part when gyms, coaches, parents think about their "optional" team. Often times, they are still thinking 7-10 and 6 is forgotten about - seems to be this little island (hopping stone) between compulsory (or xcel in some gyms) and "true" optionals. With some gyms, the cut off is L8-10, where the coaches view 6/7 this way but If the girls have made it to L8, they have the drive/talent to make it to L10 and deserve that little extra recognition. Not saying that is what is happening in your gym, but with all the 8's being recognized and not everyone in the lower levels, it's just a thought.

ETA: I just want to be clear that what happened is unacceptable and thoughtless. I am not a believer in "everyone deserves a trophy/medal/ribbon" at competitions. But that is very different than a team banquet, where the purpose should be to recognize everyone's efforts regardless of achievement. The coaches likely didn't realize that your dd was not in any of the score groups called up, but they should have. When doing these awards where *everyone* is being called up, it's important to make sure no one will be left sitting. And BTW - 4 hours? way too long. I believe ours is 2.5 hours including a meal, 15 min slide show and all the awards including silly ones that take 15-20 minutes on their own - oh and senior recognition which can go on forever with lots of tears depending on who is graduating.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 14190

First off, Every gymnast at our banquet gets something . But honestly it wasn't that way in the beginning and really doesn't have to be. We do it because we have fun with it and award funny things to the kids who didn't make the cut for the big awards. And ..... drum roll... every year I get a parent complaining that the award they got wasn't good enough. I even had a parent once tell me that they would rather not get anything ..... My response is "maybe next year you should just send your daughter and you stay at home".....
Yes that really happened . So I am torn when I read something like this. Part of me says "it's pretty easy to make sure everyone gets something " and the other part is me thinks "this is a problem with today's society that everyone has to get something no
Matter what"... conclusion , I don't think it's right to complain about not getting an award or not getting the one you think you should have received (Or what group your child is in). Awards are traditionally given for specific achievements. Again, this is a hard subject but I do see both sides . But I do not see any harm coming to the child by not getting an award.
 

cyclopsmom

Proud Parent
Jul 23, 2016
48
49
It was certainly insensitive but likely not done purposely. If I were in this position, I would email whoever was in charge of the mess to explain your disappointment and request a meeting to clear the air. It appears that they are thinking your dd will repeat 6? - not moving her to the upper group with all the other 6s, keeping her with the kids who will be competing 6 this coming year, not scoring a 35 all season. The coach saying she is the weakest of the upper group and strongest of the lower group suggests to me that they would prefer to give her another year to gain more confidence - maybe lead the lower group, before moving to 7. That's not a bad thought process for many girls, who would benefit from a "winning" year. I would want clarification on that. You really don't have a choice of another gym unless you are willing to drive 2hrs+ each way and as a L6/7, no way would I even entertain that thought to your dd, who just may jump on it if she likes gymnastics enough.

Here is another thought on the matter too - It appears that your gym only goes to L8? Are there plans to go higher? Are the coaches capable of it? How do the L8's do in competition? If your dd is already a L6, she doesn't have many more years in this gym if they don't train upper optionals. If your dd is already on the fence about gymnastics, I would be wondering if now is the time to cut loose and find another option for her that may allow her to use her favorite part of gymnastics: dance, diving, T&T, etc. Even parkour.

One last bit - the Switch to L6 being considered an optional level is only a few years old. I know as a parent coming up the ranks, it's natural to think of it as "she made it to optionals!" but for coaches and parents who have been around a long time, it is easy to slip back into the L7-10 mentality. Many still feel it isn't "really" optionals because it basically is the same level as L5. So it really is a prep-to-optionals, which is why it was made and why it is not required. You get a feel for some of this in posts on CB and how parents/coaches react to L6. All that can play a part when gyms, coaches, parents think about their "optional" team. Often times, they are still thinking 7-10 and 6 is forgotten about - seems to be this little island (hopping stone) between compulsory (or xcel in some gyms) and "true" optionals. With some gyms, the cut off is L8-10, where the coaches view 6/7 this way but If the girls have made it to L8, they have the drive/talent to make it to L10 and deserve that little extra recognition. Not saying that is what is happening in your gym, but with all the 8's being recognized and not everyone in the lower levels, it's just a thought.

ETA: I just want to be clear that what happened is unacceptable and thoughtless. I am not a believer in "everyone deserves a trophy/medal/ribbon" at competitions. But that is very different than a team banquet, where the purpose should be to recognize everyone's efforts regardless of achievement. The coaches likely didn't realize that your dd was not in any of the score groups called up, but they should have. When doing these awards where *everyone* is being called up, it's important to make sure no one will be left sitting. And BTW - 4 hours? way too long. I believe ours is 2.5 hours including a meal, 15 min slide show and all the awards including silly ones that take 15-20 minutes on their own - oh and senior recognition which can go on forever with lots of tears depending on who is graduating.

I would never drive 120 miles each way for any activity and dd knows it. Dd can make the best of what we have available in town or find another activity. Dd has decided she wants to stick with it for another season. I am sure what happened at the banquet was not malicious, but it was seriously thoughtless and ill-timed, which is why I was venting about it. All of the 5's, 7's, and 8's got awards, but 2 of the 6's didn't? That is basically everyone dd practices with, as the lower compulsaries practice later.

I know that putting dd in the low group makes perfect sense because she is obviously not proficient at the skills she needs, but it doesn't make it any easier for her being the only one separated from her former teammates and placed with girls who were mostly 2-3 levels lower last year. She also gets less strength in the low group (don't ask me to explain that logic) and she is concerned about that. I already talked to coach about dd repeating 6, and that is the plan. I would not assume that dd being in the high group would mean she is moving to 7. In theory, most girls don't know for sure whether or not they are moving up. Only 1 of our level 6 girls scored consistently well at level 6 and placed often, and she already competed in the level 7 invitational at regionals. Our gym does consider level 6 to be optional as most of our coaches are newer, so not necessarily used to the old levels. When possible, our girls score out of level 5. If anything, that is the stepping stone at our gym. Optionals are 6-8.

Our gym does not currently have any level 9's and has only had one level 9 in the years I've been there. She came from another state and only competed 1-2 events due to injury. There has not been a 10 during my time, but the owners when dd started had had 2 or so in the past that I know of. Those owners are gone now. I don't know if all of the current coaches are capable of coaching 9 and 10, but I'd be surprised if a couple of the level 8 gymnasts did not move to 9 next year. All of our level 8's seem to be quite talented and capable, but inconsistent. Don't know if that's mainly due to coaching or what. We have one coach who was a collegiate gymnast and one who was an assistant coach at a D1 school. One of the former owners was an international elite, but she has not worked at our gym for 1 year now.

I agree that 4 hours is WAY TOO LONG. Just poor organization in my opinion, probably the same reason they forgot to call dd in the first group of under 35 scorers (which they didn't announce as such). Our slideshow alone is probably close to an hour.
 

cyclopsmom

Proud Parent
Jul 23, 2016
48
49
First off, Every gymnast at our banquet gets something . But honestly it wasn't that way in the beginning and really doesn't have to be. We do it because we have fun with it and award funny things to the kids who didn't make the cut for the big awards. And ..... drum roll... every year I get a parent complaining that the award they got wasn't good enough. I even had a parent once tell me that they would rather not get anything ..... My response is "maybe next year you should just send your daughter and you stay at home".....
Yes that really happened . So I am torn when I read something like this. Part of me says "it's pretty easy to make sure everyone gets something " and the other part is me thinks "this is a problem with today's society that everyone has to get something no
Matter what"... conclusion , I don't think it's right to complain about not getting an award or not getting the one you think you should have received (Or what group your child is in). Awards are traditionally given for specific achievements. Again, this is a hard subject but I do see both sides . But I do not see any harm coming to the child by not getting an award.

I think what makes it hard was that we have done it the other way for 5 years, and then suddenly it changed with no warning. Dd expected to get a silly award and got nothing. Then they added on an award for a team of 5 but excluded 2 girls on a team of 6. Some of her friends got awards just because they were on teams of 2 or 3- not necessarily just because of a specific achievement. Of course that is my opinion as a mom of my child who didn't get an award, and probably just sounds like sour grapes. So be it! I wasn't complaining about the silly awards and I would have preferred them last night.
 
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my4buffaloes

Proud Parent
Apr 14, 2010
5,287
Midwest
First off, Every gymnast at our banquet gets something . But honestly it wasn't that way in the beginning and really doesn't have to be. We do it because we have fun with it and award funny things to the kids who didn't make the cut for the big awards. And ..... drum roll... every year I get a parent complaining that the award they got wasn't good enough. I even had a parent once tell me that they would rather not get anything ..... My response is "maybe next year you should just send your daughter and you stay at home".....
Yes that really happened . So I am torn when I read something like this. Part of me says "it's pretty easy to make sure everyone gets something " and the other part is me thinks "this is a problem with today's society that everyone has to get something no
Matter what"... conclusion , I don't think it's right to complain about not getting an award or not getting the one you think you should have received (Or what group your child is in). Awards are traditionally given for specific achievements. Again, this is a hard subject but I do see both sides . But I do not see any harm coming to the child by not getting an award.

I guess the issue here is more that they gave an award to every single girl on the team except her dd. That is where it went wrong in my mind. Our gym does not give awards to everyone. They have maybe 3-4 for each level. My kids hardly ever get an award honestly and while maybe I am a tad jealous of those that do, especially on a regular basis, I would never complain or say anything that is life. But to leave out 1 girl is just mean.
 

cyclopsmom

Proud Parent
Jul 23, 2016
48
49
I guess the issue here is more that they gave an award to every single girl on the team except her dd. That is where it went wrong in my mind. Our gym does not give awards to everyone. They have maybe 3-4 for each level. My kids hardly ever get an award honestly and while maybe I am a tad jealous of those that do, especially on a regular basis, I would never complain or say anything that is life. But to leave out 1 girl is just mean.

Just to clarify again, there were a lot of level 2-4 gymnasts who did not get awards because they were in larger groups. Dd was not the only one. It was just more awkward because the level 5-8 teams are small and only 2 girls out of 17 from those levels did not receive awards. Dd and her teammate were very aware of being those two girls, as were her other teammates. Dd was the only one momentarily forgotten at the end when individuals were acknowledged, but that wasn't for an award. Just embarrassing and awkward again. After a rough season, a little encouragement would have been appreciated. As a mom, that's difficult to watch.

I'm not trying to raise an entitled daughter, and I'm done venting now. Thanks for the supportive comments! Dd is taking a day off from practice tomorrow and I am going to tactfully let coach know that this could have been handled better and then move on.
 

ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,440
62
It's not an oversight. Seriously you have a list of gymmies you write things down.

You have specific awards, where they are very spelled out and specific/earned and most kids don't get. That's fine.

Or you give everyone something.

When a few of many get nothing, it's not nice and it's not an oversight. It's just mean.

This wasn't a mistake.

Again these kids know who the good, it so good and low performers are. No need to call it out yet again.

Not a gym I'd want my kid at. JMO
 

Keno11

Proud Parent
Mar 20, 2013
21
I am not in the mindset that every child deserves an award for a competition, there are clear winners by a set of standards. I do feel like it was an unfortunate mistake made by the coaches and I would be upset also. TEAM banquets are to celebrate every girl on the TEAM.

I have 2 competitive athletes, 1 a gymnast and 1 a swimmer. My ds (and EVERY other swimmer) get a plaque their first year on team and then every year following they get their named called and get a square with the year (2016-2017 this year). They have 2 or 3 other awards depending on the year, most improved (which my ds did get last year 15/16) and heart of the shark.. basically best teammate/attitude etc.

My dd (her first year on team) every girl got a silly award with a bag of candy and last year EVERY GIRL got a certificate with the competition year on it, the 3 girls received "special" awards, most improved, best teammate, and overall gymnast (this is not the title it has our gym name in it).

The biggest thing for both of these teams is that EVERY ATHLETE was recognized as being part of the team by the coaches. Whether a girl is a repeat or is moving she should be recognized for being a part of the team even if it is just a reading of her name. This is not a competition where there are clear rules of winning and getting awards, sure there are special awards even if they want to make them score based but every girl deserves to be recognized for being part of a team..it is a team banquet after all.

As far as the grouping of the teams go, I think this is a separate issue. I have a dd who repeated last year (level 4) and she was the ONLY one of her group to repeat (they had all been together for 3+) years. It was hard for her at first because the little of that group did not have the focus as her other group but she eventually got over it, for the most part, and it REALLY boosted her confidence for the season. She was the weakest of the other group and strongest of the this group.. not so much anymore but she is still one of the strongest of this group and has definitely improved.

The difference between our scenarios is dd was able to practice with her original group at least 1 day a week when her current group has off. This helped maintain the skills for the few events are were ready for the next level.
I totally understand the difficultness of changing groups and being the only one but end the end.. at least for my dd....it was most definitely the right move for us. She had come to terms with being the weakest and was a great teammate but it was great to see it of herself at last. :)
GOOD Luck and I hope you can talk with the coaches and get it all cleared away.
 
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skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
When a few of many get nothing, it's not nice and it's not an oversight. It's just mean.

at. JMO

I guess I don't see it as mean. I think they screwed up. Big time. But I don't think they were out to get anyone. Most coaches don't intentionally leave people out. It can get tough in front of people, and it is possible that they skipped her name, etc. The award thing is weird to me because we never do awards, just a general get together to celebrate the end of teh season..but I really doubt it was mean.

OP...good luck. I know it is tough, and I really hope the coaches do listen to you, as you explain how that felt to your dd. Big hugs!
 

ldw4mlo

Proud Parent
Feb 13, 2015
6,440
62
I'm doing a end of year gym project. My first task is too get the gymmies names and levels to make sure I have everyone. I will have the list checked by at least 2 others to make sure no one is missed.

No reason to skip just a few kids.
 

munchkin3

Proud Parent
Jun 6, 2008
2,102
First off, Every gymnast at our banquet gets something . But honestly it wasn't that way in the beginning and really doesn't have to be. We do it because we have fun with it and award funny things to the kids who didn't make the cut for the big awards. And ..... drum roll... every year I get a parent complaining that the award they got wasn't good enough. I even had a parent once tell me that they would rather not get anything ..... My response is "maybe next year you should just send your daughter and you stay at home".....
Yes that really happened . So I am torn when I read something like this. Part of me says "it's pretty easy to make sure everyone gets something " and the other part is me thinks "this is a problem with today's society that everyone has to get something no
Matter what"... conclusion , I don't think it's right to complain about not getting an award or not getting the one you think you should have received (Or what group your child is in). Awards are traditionally given for specific achievements. Again, this is a hard subject but I do see both sides . But I do not see any harm coming to the child by not getting an award.
There will always be complaining parents in any place where there are kids.....but where I disagree is that these banquets should not be yet another time to show off performance, or lack thereof. This should be an event where the TEAM gets together to have some fun and feel like a TEAM. Its a time for parents maybe to get together and have fun sans gym. We have always made it a point to talk to the coaches about anything EXCEPT gym.....
I dont think that this would constitute the 'everybody gets something' so therefore it makes them soft and a weight on society. No, gymnastics is probably THE toughest sport for awards and these kids work their BUTTS off for months and months and sometimes they still go home with nothing after a meet........so to give everybody but 2 or 3 kids a feel good award at the silly team banquet is a terrible oversight. Was it on purpose, probably not, but still....they should have some extras just in case.
My kids' at a big gym with hundreds of athletes and they go through the awards quickly....everybody gets something, and they make a special mention if someone got a 10.00 or made regionals or nationals.......but everyone feels good at this fun party.......
 

GymDad9.9

Proud Parent
Feb 16, 2016
1,089
There will always be complaining parents in any place where there are kids.....but where I disagree is that these banquets should not be yet another time to show off performance, or lack thereof. This should be an event where the TEAM gets together to have some fun and feel like a TEAM. Its a time for parents maybe to get together and have fun sans gym. We have always made it a point to talk to the coaches about anything EXCEPT gym.....
I dont think that this would constitute the 'everybody gets something' so therefore it makes them soft and a weight on society. No, gymnastics is probably THE toughest sport for awards and these kids work their BUTTS off for months and months and sometimes they still go home with nothing after a meet........so to give everybody but 2 or 3 kids a feel good award at the silly team banquet is a terrible oversight. Was it on purpose, probably not, but still....they should have some extras just in case.
My kids' at a big gym with hundreds of athletes and they go through the awards quickly....everybody gets something, and they make a special mention if someone got a 10.00 or made regionals or nationals.......but everyone feels good at this fun party.......
It should be fun for the kids and parents, and I enjoy seeing the kids dressed up nicely and being kids, not gymnasts.
 

Carly

Proud Parent
Jan 3, 2016
290
I'm sorry to hear that happened to your daughter. I would be upset about it too.

At our banquet, we don't do awards and everyone is fine with that. The girls received their awards at the meets. The banquet should be a fun time for everyone without reminding everyone of meet placements. The special thing that we do is to honor the seniors who are leaving the gym for college.
 

Flyaway

Proud Parent
Jun 1, 2014
1,380
I'm sorry this happened. It's easy for people on the outside to say it wasn't on purpose or to be mean, but that doesn't change the fact that your dd was hurt by it. For that, I'm sorry. Our gym gives each gymnast an award at the banquet (small gym - about 30 team members), but they always have to do with things that aren't directly reflected by meet placements. For example, an award to celebrate a gymnast overcoming a fear, or finally getting over the vault, or getting through a whole day of conditioning without complaining - they are personal awards tailored to each girl - some funny, some not, but celebrate the small victories that happen in the gym . I'd much rather have this than just be reminded at the end of a very long meet season which gymnasts broke 36 and which gymnasts didn't. Believe me, the girls already know.
 

cyclopsmom

Proud Parent
Jul 23, 2016
48
49
Small update: I sent an email to coach and suggested that the small optional groups should not be limited to 4 awards so that everyone could be included. I also let her know how dd had felt being one of only two upper level girls who were not recognized individually and being forgotten during the awards at the end ("36 club", etc.) I got two phone calls from coach while I was at work (so didn't have my phone) and a text that said that dd's exclusion was not intentional and that she could understand where dd and I were coming from. She said that I should call her back, but it won't be tonight.

Dd did not go to gym today and broke down tonight while we were talking about how she was feeling. Up until that point, she had said the awards thing wasn't that big of a deal and she hadn't said much about any of it. Tonight the flood gates opened and dd said that she feels like coach doesn't like her and that coach makes her feel bad about herself. She said the other day coach asked why she had a layout on floor last year, but she couldn't do it now (this is also true for cast to handstand on bars and round-off on beam). Dd has grown a good 3 inches this year and in my layman's opinion, her center of gravity has changed and skills probably need to be relearned. From what I've read on this site, everything probably feels new and scary to her. But coach didn't say that, or really offer any help with the skill- just asked her why she couldn't do them and had her keep trying. I know my dd is sensitive and may have interpreted the comments in a way that they were not intended, but not a good feeling to hear that coach makes my 11 year old dd feel "bad about herself". Dd is not the greatest at writing, but I never hear that the Language Arts or Reading teachers make dd feel bad about herself. Dd is not good at basketball, but she gets along great with her PE teacher. And dd spends 49 minutes a day with each of them, while she spends 16+ hours a week with coach. Dd also says coach has obvious favorites that seem to change based on how "good" they are at any given time. I am a teacher and I know that having favorites is natural, but a professional doesn't show everyone who their favorites (or least favorites) are. Keeping dd home from gym again tomorrow and will call coach when I get a break at work tomorrow. At this point, I don't even know what she could say that would make me feel better. I hope I don't say something that makes me feel worse.
 
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