Abuse...where is the line

[DND]

I have heard of a situation that got me to wondering where is the line.

In this case I do not think there is abuse, but the word has been thrown out there and I am not sure if people realize the power such a statement carries.

The coach in question is female and young (1st or second year university). Some parents from that group are not satisfied and feel the coach is "abusive" to the children and wants a new coach in place in under a week.

Examples brought up are yelling, not encouraging and/or not paying as much attention as they would like. Video was taken not showing any yelling, but did show coach sitting on block talking with another coach for an extended period of time.

Being on the board I am at the gym quite often at the gym and I have never seen this coach "yell". I find there are times when al parents have opinions on coaches at every level.

Maybe I am more understanding to the fact that there are days where coaches do need to yell. Sometimes kids need that to snap them out of things.

I find myself in a strange situation as I think the overall situation is way out there; I get they may be frustrated, but coaches need time to learn their way too. We are not in an area where coaches are replaceable and the thought of what this could do to a young girls life who really just wants to help other girls boogles me.

Anyone have any advice or had similar situations?

 

[pattymello]

What is your role in the gym? It sounds like the owner of the gym (or someone in charge of the program), the parents and the coach need to get together for a mediation session. Before this make sure you get the coaches side of the story. Try and get to the bottom of the issue and if possible resolve the problem without resorting to replacing the coach.

 

[iwannacoach]

If being on the board places you in a position to make decisions about who coaches what, you should hang out for a couple of practices and read a newspaper, or something to keep you busy. If you hear screaming, and can tell what kind of screaming is taking place, such as high energy, urgency, and "focus time" sorts....I think that's ok if the kids can be reminded of the good intentions behind those screams. I'd draw the "screaming line" at the point between "this is what you did, and this is how you correct it".....and "You did that wrong, all you ever do is get it wrong", but even that sort verbage has it's place, but not screamed out, to serve as a "wake up" call to the child that just seems to let it slide time and time again.

So listen long enough and often enough to have an opinion. If you feel you're a reasonable person, then I'd suspect your judgement would be reasonable and well intentioned.

 

[DND]

As were are a not for profit gym; we are run by a parents board of directors. I alone do not make the decisions in they gym, but the board votes on all things. Coaching decisions have always been left to the head coaches.

The timing is this request is also suspect at best; brought up the Friday of the long weekend when most of us are not training and the head coaches on their way to Nationals.

My take is that the parents (2-3) are frustrated - Provincials are one week away - and this is almost a bullying tactic on their part. They are requesting the impossible from the board and I worry that in the end it will be the kids and a young girl who will suffer. I stand by the coach 100% as even my own DD has had her fill in when her own coach is away. Some people are extroverted and others are introverted thus trying to deal with kids and help them through fears actions can be misconstrued. I have watched the group in question and they all seem happy while at the gym.

Really who would leave their child in an abusive situation for a whole year and some of these people have had this coach for two years. I wonder if it is just the concern that maybe the parent blaming the coach as they feel their child is not "ready" enough for the upcoming meet. I feel a coach can only do so much, especially when dealing with a kid with fears and sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

Having said that my issue is trying to get them to understand and be reasonable. They say that we have one week to meet demands (again head coaches away at Nationals) or they will take this to the provincial body. I do not think that they have a case in that regard, but when using words like abuse an investigation will be required and I don't think that is fair to put the young coach through.

I just can't understand how they cannot see that even though they think they are acting with the best intentions for their child; that nothing good can possibly come from this approach. Not to mention with no board hat on here....if it is really that bad why have you not left.

 

[pattymello]

Is it possible to temporarily remove the children of the antagonistic parents until the head coaches are back and can fully investigate the situation? You need to make it clear to the parents that this is not a matter to take lightly. Them chucking a tantrum and going to the provincial board instead of allowing the head coaches and the board of directors to assess and deal with the situation could cause lasting damage to the coaches career in gymnastics or any other child care position. Their behavior sounds like threats and blackmail and as the validity of their claims are still in question you should either rein them in or remove them from the situation (temporarily move their children from the group.).

 

[DND]

Is it possible to temporarily remove the children of the antagonistic parents until the head coaches are back and can fully investigate the situation? You need to make it clear to the parents that this is not a matter to take lightly. Them chucking a tantrum and going to the provincial board instead of allowing the head coaches and the board of directors to assess and deal with the situation could cause lasting damage to the coaches career in gymnastics or any other child care position. Their behavior sounds like threats and blackmail and as the validity of their claims are still in question you should either rein them in or remove them from the situation (temporarily move their children from the group.).

I have put that suggestion out there and will see what the rest of the board thinks. One has replied that this is the last straw as apparently this parent has been catered to for over three years and it is time to have a lawyer do up proper notification and have her and her daughter be removed immediately.

I agree as far as the parent is concerned that it seems there is no making her happy, but my heart breaks for the DD. I don't think she is aware of all this and she will be the one who may/may not compete in Provincials over this as well as have to leave her friends in a blindsided manner so to speak.

I guess these are the things that really show the true CGM!

UGH!

 

[emorymom]

Here's the answer: The board supports the decision of the head coach.

Teaching styles cannot please everyone.

If the head coach wants to keep her on, then it is the belief of the head coach that a better coach cannot be hired at this point. If they want away from her, they can look for greener pastures.

Perhaps you can have a discrete conversation with the mom suggesting that she not be around the gym or meets very much as she is unhappy with the way things are run, and if that is not something that she is comfortable with, that she start looking around for a smooth transition for her daughter.

 

[iwannacoach]

I'm getting a much clearer picture after having read your last two posts. It's both funny and sad, how these parents are acting, and I think they'll end up with the board handing them 1st class, one way tickets to the next gym down the road.

Evolutions like this are my primary reason for wanting team parents to reduce their "watching" to two times a month. I've heard comments about abuse concerns to validate some parent's opinions that regular daily viewing is needed to protect their DD's from the remote possibility of abuse at the hands of coaches.


Please don't think for a moment I would condone, foster, or enable any form of abuse. All groups that are involved in children's activites should put ample safeguards in place to protect children. I just think that "limited" viewing is one of these protections, and if that prevents you from enjoying what you paid for I'm sorry, but then why do you accept traffic regulations like speed limits when you've paid for the car you're driving.

Here we have an example of 2-3 parents abusing several parents, coaches, and children, and distracting the team program from it's mission, to feather their own DD's nests, but in the end will abuse their own daughters by a far greater measure, and it is abuse of the worst kind, for there is absolutely nothing we as parents can do to prevent it beyond hoping for a "teachable moment" such as ther one presented to you now.

I'm hoping you'll confirm my suspicion that these 2-3 parents are one of the most present forces in the veiwing area to either "reveal" my attitude or attest to other parents that the function of "viewing" is in the eye of the beholder, and is abused to an extent that is destructive to the children.

It sadden's me to think these kids may be moving on, but now is better than next year for all concerned. It would seem to cater to the accusing parties concerns that their children are being abused in such an intolerable manner, that one more week, is all they can subject their child to. The timing, as you said, is so suspect that it nearly screams out loud of manipulation.

I hate to say it, but these parents are clones of other, and I hope rare, parents that refuse to allow their child to suffer the normal and daily indignations of a healthy human life. They would lay their child's failures at the feet of someone, anyone they can find, and increase their child's chances by bullying, intimidating, and manipulating anyone they can find that holds the key's to their daughter's future.

The worst part is their unwavering belief that they are the only ones with enough courage to eliminate "unfair" obstacles for their child, while all the other parents are, at best, hapless bystanders, or worse, the parent of one of those obstacles.

Sorry about the ranting on and on, but I just can't stand these "situations", because they always lead to negative outcomes for each "situation's" child.

 

[GetaGrip]

I have a coach who only yells at me. While this might sound weird, it's because my mother gave my coach permission to yell at me. Literally. No other parents have done this before, so I've ended up as the only gymnast in the whole gym who gets full blown yelled at.

To be honest, sometimes it makes me upset, but really I appreciate it. Criticism isn't something that bothers me a lot, and I'd much rather have my coach tell me what I'm doing wrong than say it's great if it's not.

It's almost funny to see how much sympathy I get from the other girls on my team. They cannot believe how "mean" my coach is to me, and frequently say I should "tell on her". They are occasionally scolded or corrected, but if they are yelled at even once, they look like they've been slapped.

Really, I think it's how the gymnast takes everything. If they gymnast is deeply offended by her coach yelling, then maybe this tactic doesn't work so well for her. I think that if parents are having problems with this, they should tell the coach not to yell at their daughter(s). Maybe the coach doesn't even think that they are doing something wrong.

Maybe this is just me, and maybe this is just my town, but I think parents are too protective of their children. While it's very good to make sure that your kids aren't hit by a car, or kidnapped, that doesn't mean you have to follow them around and protect them at every moment like it could happen. Children need to learn to stand up for themselves, and to be honest, sometimes learn just to take it. Life isn't always going to be fair and you're not always going to get a boss who wants to sit down and have a calm discussion about why they are unhappy with you.

Also, I think it's very important to say, that I do not think it is okay if the coach is outright verbally or emotionally abusing a child. But there IS a difference between being very critical as a coach, and just being outright mean. From what you've said, it seems like only the parents are viewing this as actual abuse.

Personally, I think the parents need to sit back and let the gym run itself. The job of the parent it to support their child emotionally and financially, not to take out every person they find unfit in their child's life. If my gym listened to our parents, we would have bars that were impossible to peel off of, beams that you could never split, and a tuition that was $4 a month.

 

[Kiwi]

I am a parent who has been on the other side of this equation, i.e. had problems with a coach, and would definitely not be happy with restricted watching time. We don't have a lot of gym choices here, so just leaving the gym would be an absolute last resort.

It sounds like you believe that in this case there is no foundation to this parent's claims. If there is a genuine concern, I think the parent needs to explain it in writing, with very specific factual details. There also needs to be a meeting with whoever is in charge to discuss (head coach or gym owner).

I just want to sound a warning about this kind of situation. It could be that in this case this parent has ulterior motives like you suspect, but in some cases, such as mine, there is a genuine issue. Sometimes coaches have the best intentions and don't mean to be abusive, they may be misguided or make bad judgment calls. As you say, coaches need to learn as well, they should get a chance to explain their perspective and if necessary to modify what they are doing. Getting rid of a coach immediately without giving them a chance is pretty harsh. I also don't think abuse is necessarily just 'yelling'. It is more a matter of what is said, and may not be apparent from a video or casual observation. As a parent, it is my job to protect my child. As a 9 year old, my DD isn't capable of standing up to an adult authority figure.

I do find it sad if there are crazy gym parents who are unjustly accusing coaches of abuse because of some ulterior motives. I haven't seen it happen here and I don't really get the mindset of that kind of person.

 

[DND]

Evolutions like this are my primary reason for wanting team parents to reduce their "watching" to two times a month. I've heard comments about abuse concerns to validate some parent's opinions that regular daily viewing is needed to protect their DD's from the remote possibility of abuse at the hands of coaches.

....



I'm hoping you'll confirm my suspicion that these 2-3 parents are one of the most present forces in the veiwing area to either "reveal" my attitude or attest to other parents that the function of "viewing" is in the eye of the beholder, and is abused to an extent that is destructive to the children.



Sorry about the ranting on and on, but I just can't stand these "situations", because they always lead to negative outcomes for each "situation's" child.

I am not positive that your suspicion is correct, but it may be. There letter was brought forward by one parent and states she has the support/backing of 2-3 other parents from the group. The parent who brought it forward is not actually there that often at all and sites that she does not come anymore as it makes her furious. Another sad point is that the parent I suspect may have been adding fuel to the fire and is in the viewing area regularly is sitting in background avoiding any backlash.

As mentioned I am a parent who is in the gym VERY often; I am on the board and I am in charge if arranging and getting volunteers for our Bingo Fundraising as well as I clean three times a week to help afford to keep my DD in gym. I am sure the coaches would say I am there more than any parent, but I have proved that I do not get involved with the coaching of my DD's gymnastics.

I can see both sides of the coin on the whole viewing issue and it is examples like these that cement the case for coaches feeling the way they do. That is really an whole other thread. Our viewing area is upstairs and contained by windows so you cannot hear anything in the gym at all.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I am not positive that your suspicion is correct, but it may be. There letter was brought forward by one parent and states she has the support/backing of 2-3 other parents from the group. The parent who brought it forward is not actually there that often at all and sites that she does not come anymore as it makes her furious. Another sad point is that the parent I suspect may have been adding fuel to the fire and is in the viewing area regularly is sitting in background avoiding any backlash.

As mentioned I am a parent who is in the gym VERY often; I am on the board and I am in charge if arranging and getting volunteers for our Bingo Fundraising as well as I clean three times a week to help afford to keep my DD in gym. I am sure the coaches would say I am there more than any parent, but I have proved that I do not get involved with the coaching of my DD's gymnastics.

I can see both sides of the coin on the whole viewing issue and it is examples like these that cement the case for coaches feeling the way they do. That is really an whole other thread. Our viewing area is upstairs and contained by windows so you cannot hear anything in the gym at all.

get rid of them...

 

[DND]

Well it has been a busy long weekend and we have done some further research and it really seems to me that I just don't think the gym is a good fit for this family.

Apparently there have been interventions and situations with them on various levels for over the past two years. The entire group has had sit downs with the coach and one of the head coaches last year to clear the air and voice concerns and gain perspective on where the kids and the group were at. Last week the parent in question came to the head coach requesting she step in as her DD had taken a fall on her dismount on beam. She wanted the coach to be forcing her to do it again or she would be scared forever. The head coach went had the DD show her a timer dismount and agreed with the coaches decision that DD was clearly too scared (of even the timer) and not ready to be forced to do anything.

There were also issues with the family as the grandmother of the gymnast had taken to selling leotards out of the gym. There was no issue made at first as what she does in the viewing area is not our concern, but then it escalated to signs with hours being posted round the gym and setting up racks in our canteen. The board voted and advised the party that this is not permitted on our premises in this way as we have sponsors (one who has a store that sells suits) that pay for advertising on our TV information sets and this was considered unfair and a conflict.

We have not found any hard examples of yelling or verbal abuse of any kind. They do have a point on the video where the coach was sitting on a block, but if I am correct it was not this parent who took that video. There was a Sunday while Westerns were on and I was cleaning that I had brought my PC to watch. One of the parents who I suspect is behind more of this was commenting on the coach sitting and talking and not up and spotting. I think it may have been an isolated incident which is a case of when the cats away the mice will play....Not that I am saying that slacking off is okay, but we are all human and have all slacked off at some point and the kids when I looked up were just warming up skills not doing anything dangerous.

Our plan is that we are notifying the parent that we have received her letter and will review it in a timely manner. We have indicated that a new coach will not be in place in the timeframe she has requested and that we appreciate her concerns, but such serious accusations have to go through the proper channels. We have put together a 3 parent committee from the board and will meet on Tuesday with a lawyer to make sure that all proper channels are followed for all concerned.

I am hoping at that point they will realize that we do take this serious and there may be faults on both sides as no one is perfect and the best solution os to find somewhere that is a better fit.

Crossing my fingers!

 

[iwannacoach]

Good bit of thinking^^^^^^^

 

[Kiwi]

She wanted the coach to be forcing her to do it again or she would be scared forever.

Yikes!!!

Good on your coaches for not forcing gymnasts who aren't ready! (We often read stories here about the opposite situation). I'm getting the feeling from your posts that these people are hyper-competitive and are only thinking about that rather than the best interests of their child.

 

[iwannacoach]

Last week the parent in question came to the head coach requesting she step in as her DD had taken a fall on her dismount on beam. She wanted the coach to be forcing her to do it again or she would be scared forever. The head coach went had the DD show her a timer dismount and agreed with the coaches decision that DD was clearly too scared (of even the timer) and not ready to be forced to do anything.

Yikes!!!

Good on your coaches for not forcing gymnasts who aren't ready! (We often read stories here about the opposite situation). I'm getting the feeling from your posts that these people are hyper-competitive and are only thinking about that rather than the best interests of their child.

If this was not the first time the parents forced this issue, would you say the child in this case is being abused by their own parents. Consider the possibility of the child "caving in" to the pressure from her parents, and the ensuing attemp results in a med-e-vac injury. What remedy do you suggest to prevent this "open abuse" that still allows you complete access to monitor your child.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

throw'em out.

 

[momocay]

I was once in a bad position with coaching. As a parent, when I truly believed that the coach crossed the line, I didn't go back. If they really thought abuse was taking place, why are they still bringing their children in? That one statement about not watching anymore because they don't want to see it..... does anyone think that thats a logical reaction to abuse? Just saying.

 

[gymmomtoo]

After a thorough investigation, I'd be asking the parents to leave--the family sounds like they really push the limits all around. Good luck getting this resolved! (and as far as sitting during warmup drills and not spotting--if they can't warm up safely without someone spotting, perhaps they aren't in the right level!)