Parents Advise from those who have BTDT....mid-year level change.....

[Gymmommy71]

Dunno...why would you say it is that bars determines level advancement the most? I know this is very true. Is it because coaches view the skills on the other 3 events as easier to teach/learn quickly, where bars takes more time when a natural talent isn't there? Is it because of something down the line/progression? I'd love to know *why* it matters the most re: moving up? (it's only a 1/4 of the all around like the others).

 

[Quadqueen]

Dunno...why would you say it is that bars determines level advancement the most? I know this is very true. Is it because coaches view the skills on the other 3 events as easier to teach/learn quickly, where bars takes more time when a natural talent isn't there? Is it because of something down the line/progression? I'd love to know *why* it matters the most re: moving up? (it's only a 1/4 of the all around like the others).

Bars requires more strength as the levels go up. You can't "fake" or "finesse" your way through a bar routine.

 

[gymgal]

Bars requires more strength as the levels go up. You can't "fake" or "finesse" your way through a bar routine.

I would love to hear more about this too. I know that bars typically holds kids back - kip, free hip, giants... Etc. But why is it? My dd is a "natural" bars worker. I put it in quotes because I'm not sure she is a true natural but she definitely gets skills easier than her teammates, which is Not the case in the other events. Having said that, she is not all that "strong" - she has average gymnast strength in arms and abs. Her coaches have said she "just gets it". She doesn't muscle her way through skills.

So... Looking forward to the coaches shedding light on it...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i have a bit of a headache tonight. but i'll get it started and come back later tonight or tomorrow.

vault, beam and floor are tumbling based. and although they will leave the table from their hands, it starts on the run and punch off the board just like tumbling. these 3 events all are able to 'transfer' to one another. if you call 4 events 4 quarters, then the kids are spending 3/4 of their time on 'butt/leg' events and 1/4 on an 'arm' event. and since the lower body develops a bit faster from the core down, the upper body is at an increased deficit.

kids can have natural talent or good swing mechanics on bars. just as they could have good coordination or agility skills on a tennis court. but technique and power/strength development is what sets aside the very best. just as there can be a tennis player with a one handed back handed that is more powerful than their counter part that hits with a two handed back hand, 1 gymnast can have good swing mechanics to perform a tkatchev that might be flat with no rotation and no strength to hold on and their counterpart has power that makes her's look like a men's tkatchev and can hold on even when they are overtly powerful. hence, the bar dilemna. excellent technique is required for bars, but without that overt strength and power finds the gymnast fall further and further behind their other 3 events.

as i have posted before, you have 3 different and distinct body types. and then muscle twitch. these biological factors are what i referred to above as determinant metrics. these metrics will determine how they must be trained and what skills will be chosen in skill development. it's not a coincidence that the skills you see kids do are skills they are already predisposed to biologically speaking. sometimes it just takes time for coaches to figure out the path of least resistance. bars is the most challenging event to coach and the most difficult for athletes to do. it is comparatively easier to do gymnastics from the feet to the feet. it's more complicated and requires a disparate amount of strength to develop and succeed on bars where you must go from your hands to your hands. this fact separates the hand events in both men's and women's events by special challenge to the vestibular system and the G-Force placed against the smallest limbs on the body...the hands and fingers. the feet and toes support the body's entire girth and weight. more later...

 

[ollieblueeyes]

Thanks for your input on this. You actually confirmed what I was thinking. At the meet it looked like she was a good fit with the rest of the team.

 

[gardenia01]

I would love to hear more about this too. I know that bars typically holds kids back - kip, free hip, giants... Etc. But why is it?

So... Looking forward to the coaches shedding light on it...

Interesting, but for my dd bars has not ever been what held her back - it's been vault. She has a nice Level 8 bars routine but continues to struggle with a flipping vault. I expect vault to continue to be the issue at L9.

 

[Gymmommy71]

My DDs problem has always been bars...she has been behind on them compared to the other 3 events pretty much her whole gymnastics career, and has had to repeat a level in the past while girls with lower AA's than her moved on because they had better bars :/... Regardless, I am very proud of how hard she works just to get her skills on bars, cause you can tell its so much harder for her than the other girls. Luckily she can shine on beam and floor, and she's still a relatively young gymnast, so time is on her side. Oh, and btw, she can do chin ups, leg lifts, rope climbs, etc. just as well as everyone else, and she's the best press handstand-er of her group. If it is a strength issue, it's some other aspect of strength that isn't being worked on/developed IMO. Any tips from coaches, etc. on what she/I could do to help would be appreciated, but for now we just accept it as her weakest event...:/..

 

[Deleted member D3987]

1 of the things they must do is go 'up and down' several hundred times a week. like front hip circles 25 in a row and 3 sets. like kip cast glide kip cast 10 times in row in sets of 5. like kip cast handstand to glide to kip cast handstand 7-10 times in a row in sets of 3-5. like clear hip to handstand 3 in a row in 5 sets and 5 in a row in 7 sets for more advanced kids. like glide kip to handstand 3 times jump to high ten giants in a row. like glide kip to free hip to handstand 3 times in a row to jump to high bar kip cast handstand 3 free hip to handstands in a row then 5 giants swings to flyaway. understand?

it is the 'rotary' action and up and down action AGAINST GRAVITY that rips you down and gets you stronger. it really is grueling work. truly blue collar. just plain manual labor with one's own body weight. and it never ends until the day you leave gymnastics. you brush your teeth and have bowel movements every day. so must the athlete do this kind of conditioning. that much is certain. lest you lose your teeth, your colon and your strength weight ratio required to perform good and safe bars. this includes being able to suffer a bad fall and still get back up to repeat the skill.

 

[profmom]

All of this makes me understand in a much more nuanced way why DD's bars finally improved this year. In the transition summer between 6 and 7, they add in a lot more strength work. Now obviously strong is good and stronger is better, but for my DD specifically, that little bit of extra strength made it possible for her to do more reps of the kinds of exercises Dunno discusses. Poof, much better kips, stronger swings, and the capacity to do cast handstands and giants. She never scored much over 8 on bars last year, but I bet she could notch a 9 on a L6 routine today.

Gardenia, I don't think your DD is unusual in finding the flipping vault difficult! Our girls started working on the mechanics of Tsuks at L5 and have been working intensively on Yurchenkos since the beginning of the L6 comp year. They are now competing L7 and I think maybe two of their group of 10+ could actually do a Yurchenko at this point. I fully expect DD and at least one of her teammates to spend an extra year at L7 or whatever it will be next year because of vault.

 

[gardenia01]

All of this makes me understand in a much more nuanced way why DD's bars finally improved this year. In the transition summer between 6 and 7, they add in a lot more strength work. Now obviously strong is good and stronger is better, but for my DD specifically, that little bit of extra strength made it possible for her to do more reps of the kinds of exercises Dunno discusses. Poof, much better kips, stronger swings, and the capacity to do cast handstands and giants. She never scored much over 8 on bars last year, but I bet she could notch a 9 on a L6 routine today.

Gardenia, I don't think your DD is unusual in finding the flipping vault difficult! Our girls started working on the mechanics of Tsuks at L5 and have been working intensively on Yurchenkos since the beginning of the L6 comp year. They are now competing L7 and I think maybe two of their group of 10+ could actually do a Yurchenko at this point. I fully expect DD and at least one of her teammates to spend an extra year at L7 or whatever it will be next year because of vault.

Thanks Profmom. I'm sure she's not alone but it surely is frustrating. She can do multiple kip cast handstands and free hip handstands as they are required in sets - as dunno describes - during every bars rotation, but it's been nearly two years now of working on a flipping vault and she still is struggling. I am sure it's related to being short and not weighing much, and probably a lack of fast twitch too, but it sure is difficult.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it'll come.