An idea for training clearhips, looking for feedback

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Most of us will agree that for girls, a clearhip tends to be both extremely important and very difficult to learn.

However, I do not recall finding it at all difficult when I was learning it -- I used to start my high bar routine with back uprise clearhip to handstand, and as I recall the way I learned it was my coach told me to try it and I made it within a couple attempts.

I just started one group of upper-level boys working on this mount (none of whom had spent any significant time training clearhips) on strap bar, and almost all of them were making it close to handstand within only a few attempts (one even made it on his first attempt).

I first assumed that this was due to the fact that they're boys, and tend to have greater shoulder strength, but then I got to thinking about it, and realized it makes perfect sense for the skill to be significantly easier out of a back uprise, since it's very easy to get the shoulders behind the bar for the drop.

So what would you think of using this as a way to introduce the clearhip to female gymnasts? I mean, strap them in and have them learn a back uprise, and then try to connect a clearhip out of it? Do you think this would work as a precursor to a clearhip from a cast?

 

[kflipz]

that is how i was first taught clear hip, and all my team mates learned that way!

 

[gymdog]

If they can do an uprise then doing it from different entries is probably a good training concept just from a motor learning standpoint. And it is easier to get the shoulders under the bar. I'd say it's probably easier for boys because it's significantly easier to shift the hands around men's high bar. If you work with girls on strap bar even using gloves instead of PVC pipe you'll probably find that most of them can get close to a clear hip handstand faster than they can get it on the uneven bars. But I've never tried it from an uprise even myself so I'm not sure. For me it's easier from a cast. I think uprises are a little harder for the girls due to the shoulder strength factor also, but that could also be because big swings aren't emphasized as early in girls gymnastics (more focus on the glide swings, kips, and casts). It seems to me that one level 4 or 5 (?) boys routine they just do a pull up, pull over then a bunch of swings. They are probably better at swings in general than girls around the same level.

In girls gymnastics we don't tend to emphasize the uprise - not sure why, perhaps just lack of it in the compulsory routine. I think I've seen Tony Retrosi from Atlantic Gymnastics doing a little routine with some younger girls that had an uprise to BHC in it. Now with the removal of the A cast so that all casts have to go to handstand to avoid deductions, a back uprise may be an even better routine strategy than it's been in the past.

Try it and report back

 

[gymnut1]

I would be interested to hear too.

 

[gymkat]

I could never figure out how to do an uprise clear hip hand (I competed an uprise clear hip for two years in level 8), but I could do a clear hip hand from a cast horizontal in L7. I never had trouble dropping under the bar; my problem was having enough swing and power to even go for the clear hip hand.

ETA: I can't see most L5s and newbie L6s being strong enough to connect an uprise clear hip hand.

 

[BlairBob]

I've known other WAG programs that train it just like the men do out of a back uprise.

Again with the boys, drop aggressively besides being strong enough as a class 4/level 7.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Ok, so I strapped my level 5-ish girls in today, but we ended up just working tap swings -- they didn't quite have the swings to crank a free hip out of it.

Perhaps I'll be using this more as a lead in to a clearhip handstand for girls that already have a half-decent clearhip.

I'll experiment more over the next couple weeks and report back.

 

[coachinkal]

Interesting.

I have never tried to coach a backuprise, would be interested to know how to coach this, any drills and spotting techniques?

Several of the boys I coach can do clear hip circles, and baby giants no worries, but they have had no success on clear hip to handstand. We do not have a strap bar or a pit.

 

[BlairBob]

Kal, try spotting the back uprise from a beat swing/baby tap swing. Spot by holding their legs.

Have you worked low bar uprises while spotting a gymnast with straddled legs? They straddle their legs and you hold one in each hand as you swing them back and forth. In the backswing, they push down on the bar and end in support. It's a bit awkward but a fun, good drill. Just make sure they lock their knees and know how to shift their hands in the back swing. I like to make sure there is a mat or wedge behind them in case they peel off the bar.

As for clearhip:

[video=youtube;vmpKw_4aAO0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmpKw_4aAO0[/video]

 

[gymkat]

Have you worked low bar uprises while spotting a gymnast with straddled legs? They straddle their legs and you hold one in each hand as you swing them back and forth. In the backswing, they push down on the bar and end in support.

As a side note, this ^^ is one of my favorite kip drills, too.

 

[Valentin]

It is an interesting idea, however what i have found to be a problem with girls is not so much the clearhip portion but like you say the drop. Teaching the Back-Uprise (BU), to Clearhip could be a good reinforcement tool, but i don't know how well it will transfer to the girls bar and from a drop. To be honest even boys who have to learn the drop into Clearhip struggle to not learn over the bar.
I personally think that both should be taught simultaneously if possible, this way you are reinforcing the shoulder position and the aggressive drive. This goes for both boys and girls.

Boys do however have an easier time learning the skill, partially because of entry (being not as restricted as for girls), bar size (it allows for better grip, and more comfortable to be aggressive), bar deformation.

For boys it is important i think to teach the clearhip (if possible) along side the giant, it pays off, because at level 6 it helps with the baby giant, and it also allows them a way out of the skill when they learn it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i keep sayin it...3 clear hips in a row... day in and day out...week after week... until they accomplish the task. you don't even have to know HOW to coach the clear. 3 in a row will teach them what they need to know and how to do it. they figure it out. just faster if you DO know how to coach the clear hip.

 

[coachinkal]

Kal, try spotting the back uprise from a beat swing/baby tap swing. Spot by holding their legs.

Have you worked low bar uprises while spotting a gymnast with straddled legs? They straddle their legs and you hold one in each hand as you swing them back and forth. In the backswing, they push down on the bar and end in support. It's a bit awkward but a fun, good drill. Just make sure they lock their knees and know how to shift their hands in the back swing. I like to make sure there is a mat or wedge behind them in case they peel off the bar.

Thanks for that BlairBob.

I am assuming the coach stands in front of the gymnast and not behind? Coach would certainly need good timing to catch the beat swing. I could see myself getting kicked in the head!

I suppose I cannot imagine the swing going back, energy going backwards and then suddenly gymnast transfers backward energy to upward and forward energy. Not sure if that makes sense? Does the swing have to be at least horizontal or higher for the uprise to work? Is this one of those skills like a kip where the whole mechanics kind of defy logic?

Is there anything on the P/bars which is similar to this movement?

 

[Valentin]

to coachinkal the clearhip on PB is simulate and done but its called a peach. The problem with using this to teach the clearhip is that the peach is sooo much harder haha because of the grip on PB.

 

[BlairBob]

Yep. No compulsory girl is gonna get a peach unless she is very special. She also won't appreciate it chewing her hands up like nothing else.

Kal, for the assisted straddle uprise drill you stand in front of them so each leg is on either side of your body. It can be awkward which is why you can also do it piked from the side in front of the bar. It's just more work and not something I'm gonna do with bigger/weaker girls.

We have a neat tool for back ext that is a piece of PVC pipe with some wheels that do not move freely but can be rolled on. Back ext to prone push up hold. Doesn't work very well if they bend their arms.

When they initiate the clear/free hip, they should lean the back of their head back, chin to chest. Do not try to lean the head forward and chin to chest. Something Neil Resnick showed. He calls it the chicken neck bob.

 

[virginiacoach]

we have a set of bars that always has straps in both the low bar and high bar.. they work crazy free hips in a row on the low bar for our level 5s and those still struggling with level 6. we find it helps, but slows down the workout because they struggle to get themselves in and out of the strap bar!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

i keep sayin it...3 clear hips in a row... day in and day out...week after week... until they accomplish the task. you don't even have to know HOW to coach the clear. 3 in a row will teach them what they need to know and how to do it. they figure it out. just faster if you DO know how to coach the clear hip.

Would you stop them in clear support between each one, or just have them connect it straight away?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes, geoff. wrist pads on top of the bar ahead of the circle support. 3 in a row solves the problems of 'wrist shift'. eventually they figure out that they have to shift faster or they fall of the bar after 1. they can't connect straight away unless they figure out that there wrist pads must be in support on top of the bar BEFORE the hips come over the top of the bar.

sorry, wasn't done.

i haven't responded on the uprise stuff cause it's really not useful for girls. girls have a lower center of mass and a fat bar. boys have a higher center of mass and a skinny bar. all could be relative if we could have androgenous bodies and either a fat or skinny bar.