WAG Any guesses about "new 8"?

[MaryA]

I just found out that DD will be joining the level 8 training group at the end of this season. I was just wondering if anyone had any educated guesses about how new 8 might differ from old 8. I know that nobody will know for sure till May, but I am interested to hear opinions on how it might change.

 

[cbifoja]

I'll admit that I can't keep up with all of these changes but I thought that everything from L8 and up stayed the same? That the new L6 and new L7 were modified for optionals....... but again, color me confused and just hanging back to see how everything turns out.

 

[MaryA]

I think that "new 6" was supposed to be a little easier than "old 7", "new 7" is supposed to be a little harder than "old 7" and that "new 8" is supposed to be a little harder than "old 8." I think part of the idea of the new levels is so that it's not such a huge jump from level 8 to level 9.

 

[momof5]

I have heard that they have the option to make it harder to prepare better for 9. They can have unlimited C dance on floor and beam as opposed to the 1 they can have now. Also they can do 1 C skill (not dance) on floor and beam.

 

[cbifoja]

I think that "new 6" was supposed to be a little easier than "old 7", "new 7" is supposed to be a little harder than "old 7" and that "new 8" is supposed to be a little harder than "old 8." I think part of the idea of the new levels is so that it's not such a huge jump from level 8 to level 9.

LOL...how long do you think it will take all of us to stop typing "the new x"? I can't even think about next year without putting "the new" in front of my THOUGHTS, let alone my words!

 

[txgymfan]

This is from the USAG site. Its from December so it may change before it is official. Link Removed

 

[Natasha]

I am curious about new 8 too. My dd is doing current 8 and plans to do new 8 next year. She is already planning what C skill she wants to do on beam and bars. I am anxious to see the new special requirements for each optional level. We are really happy about this change though, after watching several friends try to make the jump to L9 this year and become very discouraged. It will be nice to have a year to clean up skills and only work on one new skill per event. Our gym also has a good sized L6 team this year, some of whom have done very well, and they are anxious to find out if some of them will be able to skip the new L6 and go to L7 (which they can according to the rules, but skill wise it will depend on special requirements and vault.)

 

[MaryA]

I used to have a book, not the official "code of points" but more of a "code of points for clueless parents of optional gymansts" that listed what were A skills, B skills, etc. and what was required at each level, but I lost it. So I don't even know what skills are C skills or what the requirements for "current 8" are now, other than watching meets and youtube videos. Current 8 looks like... add some longer tumbling passes and some twisting on floor, a flipping vault, a flight series on beam, and a pirouette (or a bar change for the exceptionally brave) on bars. Is that about right?

 

[Natasha]

Yep, that's pretty much the current 8. Floor requires 3 different saltos and a tumbling pass with 2 saltos or 2 directly connecting saltos. All events need 4 B skills, so most girls do a full on floor to get a B skill in. The other difference from 7 to 8 is that you have "composition" deductions and "not up to level" deductions that are not in L7. So, I am thinking with the new L8 in order to be really competitive the girls will need the C skill on each event even though it just gets B credit. My dd has been working BT on floor beam and low beam and on bars wants to do a bar change and/or doubleback dismount...we shall see. Either way I am so glad she can still add some new skills and have something to look forward to without the stress of moving to L9 yet. Congrats to your dd on training L8!

 

[Ingwe]

The only thing that I would add to that is that any 7's who didn't compete with Giants will have to add the Giant/Giant layout flyaway.

 

[Empowered]

The coaches will have to help me here, but parents at my daughters gym who have older daughters explained it like this to me.

They said that the current level 8 used to be harder. When the cycle first started which was 2005 I think, you could do a double back on bars or twist a dismount or you could do a standing back on beam. But what happened as I understand is they took those skills out because even though those skills weren't necessary, they became expected and many girls had trouble doing well at 8.

So they removed those skills from level 8 in 2009 I believe (something like that), and though it helped the girls at 8 it made the jump from 8 to 9 insanely huge so you ended up with a lot of girls repeating 8.

So the solution was to basically add back in the skills from the original 8, but make it a entirely new level. Thus making the progression more linear. **If I got that all wrong, I blame the parents who explained it to me... HAHA!**

Good luck to your daughter though Mary. I am so excited for her to move up. We won't find out levels for next year until October so there is much uptraining to come for my little one.

 

[vagymmomma]

The other difference from 7 to 8 is that you have "composition" deductions and "not up to level" deductions that are not in L7.

I'm not familiar with how these deductions are applied. Can anyone elaborate on these? I think DD's on the new 8 bubble (she has all skills a current 8 would need and is scoring 9s, but I never know if that's enough). Are skills like a back tuck on beam in 8 really going to help the progression to 9? DD and some of the current 7s are already practicing double backs on bars into the pit -- next year could be very exciting and very scary.

 

[MaryA]

The other difference from 7 to 8 is that you have "composition" deductions and "not up to level" deductions that are not in L7. So, I am thinking with the new L8 in order to be really competitive the girls will need the C skill on each event even though it just gets B credit.

These sort of deductions also seem to offer more "wiggle room" for judges in scoring. Do 8/9/10 scores vary more from meet to meet because of it?

 

[coachmolly]

My guess would be that new 8 will be similar to the 2005-2009 level 8 that someone mentioned up thread, except instead of C skills just being allowed, 1 will be a requirement. I think vault will be essentially the same as current 8, with a flipping vault being the norm. Bars will probably be similar to how it is now, but add in a harder dismount/extra circling skill to hs and I would think that maybe low to high and/or high to low releases will become more common at level 8 (toe shoot to high bar, overshoot from hb to lb). Beam will see level 8s once again doing back tucks, though there will be other options I would imagine. If you can find level 8 routines from around 2009 on youtube you might be able to get a general idea, though that is just speculation on my part.

 

[gympanda]

I'm not familiar with how these deductions are applied. Can anyone elaborate on these?

Composition deductions allow judges to take deductions for the "content" of the routines. We have deductions that allow us to take for choice of elements...were they hard enough for that level, did they go in all directions, was one type of element used too much or not enough. You can check out the big list on this judge's cheat sheet: Link Removed

Currently composition is only taken at Level 8 and up. This is why Level 7 routines that meet the bare minimums will score very well, while at Level 8 you need to do just a little bit more than the minimums to get that great score. It allows the judges to separate the routines better.

 

[gymgal]

My guess would be that new 8 will be similar to the 2005-2009 level 8 that someone mentioned up thread, except instead of C skills just being allowed, 1 will be a requirement. I think vault will be essentially the same as current 8, with a flipping vault being the norm. Bars will probably be similar to how it is now, but add in a harder dismount/extra circling skill to hs and I would think that maybe low to high and/or high to low releases will become more common at level 8 (toe shoot to high bar, overshoot from hb to lb). Beam will see level 8s once again doing back tucks, though there will be other options I would imagine. If you can find level 8 routines from around 2009 on youtube you might be able to get a general idea, though that is just speculation on my part.

I wonder if this will happen right away or take a couple of years before we see more difficult routines. I am sure the powerhouse gyms are uptraining these skills for their L8s to be ready to perform them but most other gyms likely won't be ready to do this for at least a couple of years (due to less uptraining currently). So then the question becomes whether it is worth doing the harder skills when most girls are doing the minimum (like current L7 VT). I know eventually, the more difficult C skills will likely define L8 but in the 1st year or two, I'm thinking you will see a lot of what is currently allowed (dance elements, free hip handstands) to fulfill a "c" requirement (which apparently will still only count as a b, right?)

 

[GymBee97]

I was told that they are adding in a new level 8 (so it would be like an old level 8 and a half some thing harder than L8 but easier than L9)

And that L8 and under skills would all shift down a number so old L8 would be new L7 and so on.

I have no idea what they are putting in them but I had heard that something would be out in May.

 

[Natasha]

I think you will see some of it happening immediately as I suspect there will be quite a few current L8's who do the new L8 next year rather than moving to L9 since they now have the option to put new skills in but not the pressure of trying to get multiple skills and connection values for L9. It will be difficult for the girls moving from L7 to new L8 though and their routines will probably be more like what you see now. However, I have to say we have found competition to be much harder at L8 this year than at L7, I think in part due to girls remaining at L8 for a 2nd year who are very proficient at L8 but weren't quite ready for L9 because it is such a huge jump. We saw some girls getting very high scores at the last few big meets we were at. I think in the end it will be nice to have 3 optional levels to replace the 2 levels of 7 & 8 and that it may help to even out the competition a little at each level.

 

[gymgal]

I think you will see some of it happening immediately as I suspect there will be quite a few current L8's who do the new L8 next year rather than moving to L9 since they now have the option to put new skills in but not the pressure of trying to get multiple skills and connection values for L9. .

You're probably right. I hadn't thought of this, and it makes sense. There are a lot of repeaters in level 8 who will have the extra year of uptraining. So first years may be at a disadvantage if they don't have at least some of the more difficult C skills.

 

[vagymmomma]

Thanks gympanda -- I never focused on the composition requirements before, but the judging sheet you posted was really enlightening. I'm kind of glad they do that at the higher levels because it's a little discouraging at L7 when you see routines with lower difficulty skills score higher than much more difficult routines with more bobbles. All within the rules though.