back layout help?????

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Wondering if anyone knows of any really good youtube videos showing a technically correct roundoff-backhandspring-layout. Or, perhaps a layout on the trampoline? I'm looking for a really, really good example - near perfection.

I'm wondering about the correct angle of the body at the finish of the back handspring, what is the correct arm position on the layout, what initiates the actual rotation...what happens with the arms from the back handspring into and throughout the layout? I assume the head stays neutral ;) Do the arms play any part in the rotation of the layout? What about the hips? Shoulders?

Are there deductions for "archy" layouts? What about a layout that is "too hollow"? Or should it be perfectly straight and not hollow at all?

Is there any literature readily available online?

It seems like everyone at our gym is kind of teaching the layout differently. I'd like for everyone to be on the same page. We have kids saying "yeah, but coach k told me to...and...

I have seen many amazingly beautiful layouts, but I'm not happy with they way I see layouts in our gym. I see a lot of arching (slight arching). I also see a lot of piking down. I see kids flipping with their arms at their ears the entire flip. I can't seem to get any of the kids to "set" or "block" because they fail to rotate. They all want to use their shoulders to rotate (if that makes sense.) I think that if they drop their arms and lift their hips then they would rotate - other coaches are telling me that I'm wrong, that they should put their arms up and leave them there.

any and all words of advice are welcome. any videos, literature, whatever.

If anyone has time to get into the physics or biomechanics of it all, please do so. We want to fix this issue in our gym. We all want to be on the same page. We all want to teach this element correctly...
While I don't have a video for you, I can do my best to explain my philosophy, and some other coaches can chime in and "correct" as they see fit.

The basic answer to the broader question I "think" you're asking is this:

A layout should be hollow/straight, that is - the same position the top of a giant or handstand is in. However, the hands are at the sides by this point.

The reasoning is this -

An arched layout shows improper take off technique. It is whipped, and does not show an increase in center of mass - at best, a whip back is the only "arched" backwards moving salto you will so, but even that is done somewhat differently than a layout.

An arched layout back will inhibit twisting, pretty much 100%.

An arched layout means the gymnast is probably uncomfy backwards tumbling, and is "looking" for the floor as they take off.

Ideally (in my opinion), a flip-flop will finish upright (in a hollow), with a slight knee bend and the chest a bit forward. That way, the "set" of the arms will force a rise in the shoulders and begin a backward rotation. What I tell my gymnasts to do at this point is focus on touching their hands to their thighs.

The reason why is this - Stand tall with your hands above your head. Then, bring your arms down in front of you, squeeze your stomache, and touch your thighs. What position are you in? (Hollow should be your answer!! :p)

To initiate a "proper" twist (this is where I think a few people will deviate with me), that hollow position should be attainable before vertical, that is 80% or so of the body shape change happens before the gymnast inverts. At that, the last 20% is arm movement to increase rotational speed. Inversly, to slow down and not over-rotate (as they get to be stronger tumblers), raise the arms out in front to slow down rotation.

We can talk about twisting later because it's a whole new bag o stuff..

In short. A layout should be between hollow and straight. A slight rounding of the shoulders is to be expected (though Ive seen some beautiful completely straight layouts), and will be somewhat necessary when twisting (for an extreme example of this position, find that wonderful triple-double from Horton).

I hope that helps explain my interpretation. To me, archy layouts are counter productive in every way. Even when thinking whip back, I teach those more as a.. hmm.. not quite a flip-flop, but similar.

Good luck!

For my arms, after i set, i just pull my arms down by my side (pulling them in front of me).

just look on youtube for videos of people doing layouts.
For the arm movement, I find it helpful not to think of pulling the arms in at all. The arms are up for the 'set' or 'block', then the hips lift to the arms.
A good drill for this is RO flic jump caught by the coach - but the jump should go right up over the head with the body tight.

I've seen this drill on workout wednesday at one of the university teams if you don't know what I mean, but I can't find the clip now.

I agree with ryan about the basic layout shape and positioning.


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