BARS: Straddle Cast or Straight Body Cast

[ALgymMom]

Coaches, Which do you prefer? Do you teach your gymnast both? My daughter has been doing straddle cast for for 3-4 years now & now the head coach has decided NO MORE STRADDLE CAST!!! Just wondering why?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I discussed this a bit on my blog awhile back.

Both types of casts have their advantages and disadvantages.

A straddle cast has much lower strength requirements, and is generally easier to get precisely to handstand. However, the technique is more difficult, and in many ways they don't work as well for pirouettes -- particularly, it is basically impossible to do an early pirouette in a straddle cast.

Staight-body casts are far simpler where technique is concerned, and allow an early pirouette (a pirouette on the way up to handstand is generally superior to a pirouette done entirely in handstand, for a variety of reasons). A straight body cast also tends to look nicer than a straddle cast.

Which is best depends on the context, and specific preferences vary a lot between coaches.

My take on it: if a kid is strong enough to hit a consistent straight-body cast to handstand, that would generally be my preference -- I tend to see a straddle cast to handstand as a fallback option for kids that can't get a good straight body cast handstand. But as I said, this is just my view, and does not in any way represent a consensus among the general coaching community.

 

[ALgymMom]

Thanks! Great article! I just hate that my gymnast has done straddle cast for 4 seasons & now has to switch! She's thin & flexible & my guess is that she still isn't strong enough for straight body! What kind of conditioning is good for straight body cast?
Also wanted to say HC announced to ALL optionals L7-10-no more straddle cast, not just my child. I'm hoping she was just in a bad mood!

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

DD's coach told me that straight body casts have a higher start value because they are more difficult. Also when dd first started at this gym she had been working on the straight ones, but her coach at the old gym had her working on drills on a bar on the floor with the straddle. Her new coaches freaked, saying that to switch to the straddle was really bad.

*take this with a grain of salt from a parent*

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

DD's coach told me that straight body casts have a higher start value because they are more difficult. Also when dd first started at this gym she had been working on the straight ones, but her coach at the old gym had her working on drills on a bar on the floor with the straddle. Her new coaches freaked, saying that to switch to the straddle was really bad.

*take this with a grain of salt from a parent*

In the USAG code, they're worth the same. I don't know about the FIG code off the top of my head, and I don't know anything about the canadian rules.

 

[hawaii_gymnast]

In FIG straddle cast is an A and straight body is a B. All developmental programs I have heard of use straight body cast
At our gym, coaches generally start with straight especially for the little ones then move to straddle if straight body isnt working. I prefer straight body as if im no getting all the way up, I am not takinh at many deductions. I did straddle casts a bit and found the timing was hard anf they werent consistent, straight body is easier for me. If she has done straddle for so long, I dont see a need to changr especially because in USAG code they are worth the same.

 

[iwannacoach]

I discussed this a bit on my blog awhile back.

Both types of casts have their advantages and disadvantages.

A straddle cast has much lower strength requirements, and is generally easier to get precisely to handstand. However, the technique is more difficult, and in many ways they don't work as well for pirouettes -- particularly, it is basically impossible to do an early pirouette in a straddle cast.

Staight-body casts are far simpler where technique is concerned, and allow an early pirouette (a pirouette on the way up to handstand is generally superior to a pirouette done entirely in handstand, for a variety of reasons). A straight body cast also tends to look nicer than a straddle cast.

Which is best depends on the context, and specific preferences vary a lot between coaches.

My take on it: if a kid is strong enough to hit a consistent straight-body cast to handstand, that would generally be my preference -- I tend to see a straddle cast to handstand as a fallback option for kids that can't get a good straight body cast handstand. But as I said, this is just my view, and does not in any way represent a consensus among the general coaching community.

Straddle casts (s/c) are a mechanical nightmare compared to the simplicity of a straight body cast. I Geoff's say so isn't enough you can consider these variables as reasons to leave the straddle cast for a last reasort:

Timing....when to start the pike/straddle motion....if not done at exactly the same time every time it's like training multiple versions of the same skill.

Depth of pike while moving to straddle......multiple versions of the same skill

Width of straddle.................................... " " "

Recovery speed from straddle to handstand position " "

I'd offer more, but do I need to? I'm not sure of the exact formula but I gotta believe there are at least 5x5 possible unique variations. But I think it could go way beyond that.


Math wiz anyone???

 

[CoachTodd]

If both skills are looked at as press to handstands, it pretty much gives you the timing and difficulty differences. All a cast to handstand is is a press to handstand with help. Those that just try to fling it up there are the ones that have trouble stopping the cast.

 

[marie83]

Well...

Until this year I have always been in the "Straight body cast" Camp.
However, last year I taught my first ever straddle cast to handstand and the gymnast found it so easy I am converted!
This last couple of weeks I started teaching the straddle cast to all my gymnasts and literally 5 or 6 of them have achieved it already vs 3 or 4 months of straight body cast work and getting nowhere!
The first gymnast I taught it to last year, did the straddle cast for a couple of months max, then I asked her to try straight body cast and after a week or so she had it to handstand pretty much every time.
I'm hoping that this might be the same for some of the others who just need to confidence to hit that handstand!

On FIG code the straddle cast or a cast with a pike at the hips is an A, Straight body is a B
On the BG Developmental pathway a gymnast who straddles and doesn't hit handstand incurs a 0.3 deduction.

 

[ALgymMom]

Here is a video of her straddle cast.Tonight's practice should be interesting, her first straight body cast in 4 seasons I'm going to predict some frustration! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpj2i_Mw43c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Deleted member D3987]

my opinion on your daughter is to not fix it if it ain't broke. and the college coaches could care less. i'm afraid that with her body type, and the time that she has been doing straddle, that switching will lead to epic failure.

 

[ALgymMom]

^^^^ I'm not a coach, but I agree with you!!

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

I think her bars look beautiful!

 

[gymdog]

my opinion on your daughter is to not fix it if it ain't broke. and the college coaches could care less. i'm afraid that with her body type, and the time that she has been doing straddle, that switching will lead to epic failure.

I agree. The gymnast in the video has master the straddle cast to handstand very well. I see it being performed with virtually no deduction in the video. And while it can be harder, most girls at that age and level have the body awareness to account for the straddle, etc. I never do straddle cast to handstands into clear hips or giants (no real technical reason, I just learned those skills from a straight body cast), but I am pretty unusual in that respect. Most other female gymnasts I know do straddle cast HS into everything after a certain level (I would always do it into a pirouette and don't see any reason why not. You turn the first hand in straddle and then join your legs as you close your body - in some ways I guess you could say that's more difficult but I actually don't think it is that much more difficult). Most NCAA level bars uses straddle casts. So I don't really see any benefit to this change but I wish her luck in the transition, maybe it'll be a short lived idea.

Usually it seems straight body cast HS is taught first (this is how I learned) and straddle is introduced later. We always had to do sets of both though. This is how I teach it as well, at first, although I guess if I had a gymnast tall enough I would try straddle first (work mainly with younger kids).

 

[flipflopcrystal]

would you say working hundreds of presses on a floor bar and using a cast trainer will help them with a straight body cast? How do you get the "fast twitch kick" at the bottom of the bar?

I think a lot of my girls can press on a floor bar but they will only cast to horizontal (or barely above) might be some fear of falling over the bar. How do you help with that? I usually put a mat there, but then they will bend their arms and literally eat the bar.

Then there is connecting a kip cast...any extra drills for that?

I am asking for levels 5-6. I try and teach cast to HS to keep them comfortable on the bar, but its hard to get them to a 45* cast even....

And then there are girls who are almost the same size as me and I can't spot them to HS!!

All of our optionals seem to be straddle casting. I'd like to get our girls more on straight body casting by starting early! They seem to be pretty strong, not sure if technique is the issue??

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Here is a video of her straddle cast.Tonight's practice should be interesting, her first straight body cast in 4 seasons I'm going to predict some frustration! Straddle cast on bars - YouTube

While I do generally favor straight body casts, the cast in that video simply isn't in need of fixing. It's spotlessly clean and looks completely effortless. In addition, your daughter has very long body lines and appears to be pretty flexible, which means a straddle cast is most likely a better choice for her.

I'd still spend a bit of time working on the straight body cast -- you never know, she may defy expectations and find it easy to pick up. But if I were her coach and she didn't pick the straight body cast up easily, I wouldn't stress about it.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

A straight body cast may be technically easier, but it's much harder to learn for girls, especially taller ones. The taller you are, the harder you have to work to get your whole body up there. A straddle cast allows you to compress your body over the bar, which means your legs aren't so much of a liability. Turning in a straddle cast is not difficult, either - my coach always tells us we should have our first hand turned before our legs meet at the top.

 

[iwannacoach]

would you say working hundreds of presses on a floor bar and using a cast trainer will help them with a straight body cast? How do you get the "fast twitch kick" at the bottom of the bar?

I think a lot of my girls can press on a floor bar but they will only cast to horizontal (or barely above) might be some fear of falling over the bar. How do you help with that? I usually put a mat there, but then they will bend their arms and literally eat the bar.

Then there is connecting a kip cast...any extra drills for that?

I am asking for levels 5-6. I try and teach cast to HS to keep them comfortable on the bar, but its hard to get them to a 45* cast even....

And then there are girls who are almost the same size as me and I can't spot them to HS!!

All of our optionals seem to be straddle casting. I'd like to get our girls more on straight body casting by starting early! They seem to be pretty strong, not sure if technique is the issue??

Check out the "hollow casts" thread from about a week ago

 

[GymnastAlice]

Well, I'm no coach but since you wanted to know what kind of conditioning would be good here is a list.

Arms:
Push ups
Bridge rocks

Legs:
Crunchies (also works the stomach)
Burpies (good for other muscles to)
Toilet seat against wall

Stomach:
Dish
Arch
Crunchies
Arch drops
V-Sit bouncing the legs up and down
Sit ups

Back:
Bridge rocks
Backbends and bridges for over 1 minute (also works the legs, arms and stomach)
Spider backbends down a wall (works the arms aswell

You can also buy those exercise balls and dumbells are fairly cheap. And you could get your daughter to do yoga exercises they really stretch the muscles and gain strength. Hope this helped! Alice x