WAG Bent arm kip deduction?

[twinmomma]

DD's had her kip for awhile, but it goes from being super tight to bent arms. I chalk a lot of it up to inconsistent training at her old gym (sort of a "let's see if you can throw this skill and we'll fix it later" approach). New gym does a LOT of drills and I've seen a huge improvement in much of her work across the board. Stronger vault, better dancework, etc... But her kip was really looking nice when she first started at the new gym and now all of a sudden it looks like she's bending her arms again. I'm not sure if it's that's she's struggling to put the pieces together with the added coaching information she's getting or if it's just the nature of the skill. BUT, first comp is the last weekend of this month, and I'm starting to think she's going to get hit with bent arm kip deductions.

She's a L4, so there's two kips in the routine. She connects the kip to her cast so I'm not worried about that, but what's the deduction for the bent arms in the kip?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The deduction is an "up to" deduction so it depends on the severity of the bend. average deduction is a tenth or two on each kip.

 

[twinmomma]

Got it. Thank you. It's not awful - she's not muscling the kip by any stretch. Just not pushing all the way straight. Her coach is working on it with her, but I just want to set expectations.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It's really a choice when they can do it and don't. I just send them to rope.

 

[rjb123]

Ugh that stupid kip! I remember back when DD was getting ready to compete new 4. Her HC flat out told her "no straight arms, no scores in the 9's. You will be 8 if you are lucky." DD started straightening them very quickly after that. It appeared to be pretty accurate in our state- unless you had stick straight arms on that kip/ cast then you didn't see a 9 or up.

 

[gymjunkie]

Last year one of our L4s was state champ on bars (9.575) and she bent her arms on both kips. She had perfect form elsewhere and beautiful tap swings. It drove me crazy as a coach that she couldn't do a straight arm kip, but since that was pretty much her only deduction, she still scored well all season. She just finally got a straight arm kip this summer.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

DD's had her kip for awhile, but it goes from being super tight to bent arms. I chalk a lot of it up to inconsistent training at her old gym (sort of a "let's see if you can throw this skill and we'll fix it later" approach). New gym does a LOT of drills and I've seen a huge improvement in much of her work across the board. Stronger vault, better dancework, etc... But her kip was really looking nice when she first started at the new gym and now all of a sudden it looks like she's bending her arms again. I'm not sure if it's that's she's struggling to put the pieces together with the added coaching information she's getting or if it's just the nature of the skill. BUT, first comp is the last weekend of this month, and I'm starting to think she's going to get hit with bent arm kip deductions.

She's a L4, so there's two kips in the routine. She connects the kip to her cast so I'm not worried about that, but what's the deduction for the bent arms in the kip?

You sure you're not talking about Puma Jr?! Man, there's a lot of similarities here! Lol It sounds like your DD is ahead of mine in the "kip game", but I feel your pain! We still have more than 3 months until the first meet, so I'm hoping her kip is competable by then. She's made HUGE progress already at the new gym. This is a great question! Thanks and GOOD LUCK!!! We should start a "omg-when-will-this-darn-kip-be-solid" club! Lol

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I refer to as the DFK, you may use your imagination to figure it out.

Of course if the kid asks its dang flippin kip

 

[munchkin3]

There was a CB debate a while ago about actually being able to keep the elbows straight during a kip. Understanding the deduction is for a young athlete bending the arms, in reality, even the seniors slightly bend their arms for power.
I think the majority of athletes preform the kip WITHOUT locked elbows, there is a slight bend......
This is another debate though, because in compulsories, there is a deduction for bending the arms during a kip and each kip in L4 is quite different.
DD bent her arms more on the first glide kip, and straight on the second long hang kip.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

There was a CB debate a while ago about actually being able to keep the elbows straight during a kip. Understanding the deduction is for a young athlete bending the arms, in reality, even the seniors slightly bend their arms for power.
I think the majority of athletes preform the kip WITHOUT locked elbows, there is a slight bend......
This is another debate though, because in compulsories, there is a deduction for bending the arms during a kip and each kip in L4 is quite different.
DD bent her arms more on the first glide kip, and straight on the second long hang kip.

Sigh....what I wouldn't do for slightly bent arms right now...that "muscling" you speak of, yeah, that's Puma Jr right now! Lol But at least she consistently can get up now..small victories, right?! I'm impressed with her progress already (the coaches are too I believe) in the last 6 weeks and she has another 3 weeks of summer training, a week off, then roughly another 10 weeks or so until the first meet. So we'll see! Thanks again everyone for all the good info

 

[munchkin3]

The kip is sooooooo hard. I remember dealing with daily tears for 6 months!
They have to start somewhere! Just getting over the bar is huge!

 

[flippingtogether]

The kip. The kip!! Yep, it isn't just getting it, it's the nice form with the straight arms, and it's connecting it as well. Then add in the kip-cast to handstand (we hope!) to up the ante even more at L5.

It was so funny and agonizing for me to learn it isn't just the darn kip that you have to worry about - it's everything else that goes with it as well! That's gymnastics for you!! Nothing is ever easy

 

[Rc1em8]

My daughter has been seemingly close to getting her kip for maybe 8 months. Last season stayed in L3 because of missing kip. Was hopeful that this summer she would finally get it, but nothing yet in spite of 4 day/week practice. Is it possible that she won't be able to get it? She has all other L4 skills, but I am worried. Communication is poor at the gym so I am left wondering should I encourage her toward other activities?
Thanks for your help

 

[gymjunkie]

My daughter has been seemingly close to getting her kip for maybe 8 months. Last season stayed in L3 because of missing kip. Was hopeful that this summer she would finally get it, but nothing yet in spite of 4 day/week practice. Is it possible that she won't be able to get it? She has all other L4 skills, but I am worried. Communication is poor at the gym so I am left wondering should I encourage her toward other activities?
Thanks for your help

Is she asking to switch to other activities because of the kip? Some kids take forever to learn a kip and end up being great bar workers. Some kids get it quickly and are not good bar workers.

 

[Rc1em8]

She wants to continue with gymnastics , coach said she can move up and scratch bars until she gets it. But that is a lot of pressure, and in spite of how long she has been trying only has voiced frustration once. Have u ever seen a gymnast fail to get their kip?
Thanks for the advice

 

[profmom]

When DS is doing hi bar and getting set to do any skill out of support, he does a kip every time to get up there because he thinks it's still necessary to keep practicing.

Rc, it may seem like it's never going to come, but it will. DD started old L5 with an ugly, muscled, bent-arm kip. Honestly it did not look really good until she was a L7, and she's not the only one for whom that was true on her team. One of DS's teammates is an AWESOME little gymnast (on the AA podium at regionals two years in a row) but really struggled painfully with his on and off kip two seasons ago. Now he has giants both ways and is working on his double back dismount off hi bar. They can be stuck at the "almost" point for a long time, and I'm sorry to say they can lose it briefly after they get it. But if other bars skills are moving along, the kip will come and eventually will stick around. The technique is really tricky and the only way to get it is to try and try and try until that magic day when it clicks!

 

[sce]

I've never known someone to not get it with enough conditioning and practice. Is she close? This is a case where a few privates might help, esp. if there is something she is missing in understanding the technique.

 

[needcoffee]

I thought DD would never get the kip. Even now they are still bent arms, and she loses points for either not connecting he cast or cast not being horizontal. I remember a time, not too long ago, when I thought she would never get it, so I have faith the rest will come too.

FWIW, I've seen kids at our last 2 comps without a kip at all, just attempted it and then taken the fall deduction.

 

[Rc1em8]

The coaches tell her she is close, but they have told her this for 6 months or more. She doesn't want to muscle it up, she wants to make it with straight arms. She has gotten a lot stronger in last 6 months also. The coach has offered privates, just have not been able to schedule. I know it's hard to predict when it will happen but I really thought she would have gotten it with whole summer at gym... So I will continue to worry
Thanks all

 

[duyetanh]

If the coach suggested the privates, I would try hard...could be the missing link! I am sorry...that kip is truly a beast of burden...