WAG Class of 2023 first verbal

[bogwoppit]

They get hurt, good bye ride. SOL

I have never heard of this to be the case, they get immediate attention from on staff physios, they get health care coverage and they still get "paid" if they are injured.

Can you share any stories where injured college gymnasts had their scholarship removed?

 

[Muddlethru]

There is so much negative and inaccurate statements about verbal commitments. Many make statements about verbal commitments without having any personal knowledge of the process. True both the school and the athlete can change their mind; and true a verbal commit is not official until an LOI is signed. However, make no mistake verbal commits are also worth it weight in gold. Schools tend to honor their verbal commits. It is not in their best interest to be labeled as one of the schools that does not honor their verbal commitments. I would say at least 90% verbal commits remain binding no matter how early it was made unless of course, something very serious has gone awry. In terms of injury after a verbal commitment, injuries happen all the time and is not a college gym ending scenario either. But let me say, it certainly has happened where a college and/or an athlete changed there mind; and there are legitimate horror stories about verbal commitments. But it is a lot less common that you think. It is not the general rule. I think people use these stories to justify why they claim they don't want their daughter to do college gymnastics or to malign verbal commitments. Additionally, a verbal commitment is enforceable by law and is a cause of action; one can sue for breach of verbal commitment if they so choose.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...chools-abandon-their-injured-athletes/275407/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/is-the-ncaa-failing-its-college-athletes

http://therecruitingcode.com/you-could-lose-your-athletic-scholarship/

https://www.athleticscholarships.ne...h-take-away-my-scholarship-without-telling-me

 

[bogwoppit]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...chools-abandon-their-injured-athletes/275407/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/is-the-ncaa-failing-its-college-athletes

http://therecruitingcode.com/you-could-lose-your-athletic-scholarship/

https://www.athleticscholarships.ne...h-take-away-my-scholarship-without-telling-me

I meant specific cases of gymnasts. I have honestly never heard of it happening to a gymnast.


I have definitely heard of losing scholarships for other reasons though.

 

[Muddlethru]

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...chools-abandon-their-injured-athletes/275407/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/is-the-ncaa-failing-its-college-athletes

http://therecruitingcode.com/you-could-lose-your-athletic-scholarship/

https://www.athleticscholarships.ne...h-take-away-my-scholarship-without-telling-me

I'm sorry but these sources are far from reliable and/or does not draw a good picture of the recruiting process or the treatment of athletes in colleges. A quote taken from your first article link alone states "Some schools, maybe even most, provide exceptional care for their athletes. But there's little way to know who does and who doesn't—and these sparse guidelines can leave some student-athletes dangerously exposed." It is a general rule actually that athletes particularly in Division 1 colleges get better treatment than regular students. They get tutoring if they need it; better accommodations, food, etc.

The last two articles you listed just provide general information; and while it does contain some relevant information, it is just a warning; the same type warning we read in medication; some food we eat, etc. Additionally, like I said in my previous post, there are going to be some disgruntled athletes, coaches, parents, etc. But again, this is not the general rule.

 

[Muddlethru]

Exactly!! A verbal offer is only worth the paper its printed on. What happens if these your gymnasts don't stack up academically? What happens if they don't score well enough on the SAT/ACT to get into the school? I'll tell you what happens - the school moves on and the gymnast is left out in the cold because they have taken themselves out of the recruiting process for any other school.

I don't think it is the college's fault if the athlete does not stack up academically. If they don't meet the SAT/ACT or admission requirements of athletes (not regular students) of the school, it is actually in the best interest of the athlete to pursue a school that suits them more academically; otherwise they will just struggle academically in that school. It does make sense in this scenario for the college and the athlete to go separate ways. Additionally, many colleges will discuss the admission process with the athlete. They will likely let the athlete know what they need to do academically to get in; how the coach can help them get in. My son's teammate was a nationally ranked, top 10 fencer of the country. She was offered a scholarship but was told she had to get at least an 1600 SAT (it 2400 at that time). She could not do it. Often times, what we read or hear does not depict the whole story. On the outset, it looks like the college left this athlete in the dust. But I don't think so. We forget college should not be entirely about sports. The primary purpose is really to get an education; and while coaches can get athletes into the college they may otherwise not be able to get in based on their academic standing, the athletes must still meet a minimum requirement to ensure some academic success at the college.

 

[FlippinPrincess]

So, doesn't giving verbal offers to such young gymnasts promote excessive training and pushing kids even harder at a super young age? It seems like it would create panic among SOME parents that if they don't hit high levels early then college won't be an option. I realize this is not true, but I know some parents who would hear this and it would be all business for their kid. These kiddos are so young and the number of hours they put in the gym is already pretty intense. It's sad that some people would feel pressure to do more based on such young commitments or even feel like college isn't a possibility if you don't have it locked down by high school. I agree 100% with what Bogwoppit said earlier about no offers should be made until high school. I just can't figure out why everyone can't wait. These verbals to such young kids seem so bizarre to me.

 

[2gymmies]

So what do you all think that the little girl should do if she is getting “offers” from what she thinks is her dream school? Do you tell Georgia no and really hope that the offer is still there in a couple years? Georgia is a great school both gymnastics and academics but not Super Six right now... what if UCLA offers a spot or Florida or a Oklahoma (even better gymnastics)!?!??

 

[thefellowsmom]

I am curious too 2gymmies and looking forward to someone chiming in on this.

I also can’t comment on this little girl and her choices. This agreement is between her and this school and I don’t think we can speculate on how or why this happened.

My dd is in 8th grade and I know that if her top choice school made her an offer she would want to take it for sure. This terrifies me as a parent, but I would trust her and her coaches and hopefully we would make the right choice. I know that if her top choice school wanted her it would be extremely difficult to pass it up as I can’t help but think that the offer would likely not come around again and she would be giving up a chance at her top school.

Does that mean that another school may end up being a better fit down the road? I don’t know. That is impossible to predict. Her top school choice is a great school with a large variety of majors and well within her academic reach and she is in love with the program and coaches. I feel she has thought about it pragmatically. I don’t know what more you can do. We aren’t close to that happening, just thinking hypothetically.

A little bit more input on the process. We watched and I conversed regularly and deeply with the mom of her teammate during her whole recruiting process. There were offers she declined and she quietly, not publicly, verballed to her school in 10th grade. From that point on and even before that (she started talking to them after eighth grade) there was consistent contact between them and her coach and the college coach. She also spoke regularly with academic counselors at the school to make sure she was taking the right classes and keeping up academically.

She also was injured for a good chunk a couple of times and that in no way affected the process. The school knew what she was capable of and monitored her recovery. This isn’t a process that happens in the dark. It’s not like you verbally commit and then nothing happens until junior year. There are ways to work the rules and keep lines of communication open.

Now, this all happened before the new rules about unofficial visits and communication. It will be interesting to see what happens now, but I think they will continue to find ways around the rules, for better or worse.

 

[bogwoppit]

NCAA needs to put a stop to any offers before high school. It would be that simple, no visits of any kind, no coach communication, no emails. Simply put no recruiting of any kind can take place until high school.

The reason it still happens is that the NCAA does not care enough to stop it.

 

[FlippinPrincess]

So what do you all think that the little girl should do if she is getting “offers” from what she thinks is her dream school? Do you tell Georgia no and really hope that the offer is still there in a couple years? Georgia is a great school both gymnastics and academics but not Super Six right now... what if UCLA offers a spot or Florida or a Oklahoma (even better gymnastics)!?!??

I don't fault the family for accepting the offer. I just can't figure out why one was given to a 12 year old little girl. If you read thefellowsmom's post she spoke about her dd's teammate who accepted a verbal offer in 10th grade. I just think that is such a more appropriate time to be discussing college with an athlete. NCAA needs to stop hanging out in junior high schools. It's bizarre and unnecessary.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I have never heard of this to be the case, they get immediate attention from on staff physios, they get health care coverage and they still get "paid" if they are injured.

Can you share any stories where injured college gymnasts had their scholarship removed?

I know of verbal commits that were rescinded by the school, but I don't think I've heard of any scholarships being removed due to injury.

 

[Seeker]

I know of verbal commits that were rescinded by the school, but I don't think I've heard of any scholarships being removed due to injury.

No, me neither...this does not seem to be the general practice. Medical retirement does not result in loss of scholarship in most cases, unless there is some special or extenuating circumstance. Discipline or long-term academic issues are generally the driver for that, as far as I am aware.

 

[Texasmomof3]

My dd would have accepted any scholarship offer from any school to do gymnastics as a middle schooler, because the idea of college gym is so exciting.

No that she is in high school, she is much more focused on what she wants to study and what a realistic career path will be. She realizes that her intended major does not mesh well with college sports, and her two favorite schools (based on academics and fit) do not have gymnastics teams, anyway. If you ask her today if she plans to do college gym, she laughs and says she might do club or find a gym where she can still train and maybe coach while in school, but college gym really isn't on the table.

That perspective changes her relationship with gymnastics now in a very fundamental way. She is missing part of this season while letting an injury heal. If she were intent on a scholarship at all costs, she would compete through the injury in order to have the scores and placement. That is just reality.

The girls who commit to college gym so young are limited in choice of major and career expectations. And my guess is that they don't even realize this.

 

[Texasmomof3]

I know a couple of college athletes (not gymnasts) who lost scholarships due to injury. Both were football players and neither went on to graduate.

I have read about one gymnast who lost her scholarship due to "disciplinary issues." Her version of events is that she was injured and didn't train hard enough through the injury, so they deemed her a disciplinary problem.

 

[profmom]

One very important caveat here. A verbal contract anticipating an event 3-4 years off in the future is generally NOT going to be enforceable in a court of law.

 

[Flicfliclay]

I think that it's pretty sad that colleges are committing girls this young. It is easy to poo poo it and say oh it is just paper blah blah... but it isn't. Statistically these commits turn into the real deal down the road. What needs to happen is that there needs to be some hard rules in place to stop this. I think 10th grade and up should be the rule. You see all the time when parents are sooooo excited that a college recruit will be in their DD gym.. and you find out that their child is still in grade school. So it works in all ways. The gym needs to put a stop to it, the parents need to as well. There was a recruiter watching my DD group yesterday ( she trains in and Elite group with girls that are much older ) and I asked her if it made her nervous.. She said.. NO not at all. I'm too young for them to care about. So that made me happy, that she does not feel the pressure yet to be nervous in front of a college recruiter. At my DD gym the girls of recruiting age all wear special leotards with their last name and a number so that the recruiters know they are old enough. What a great idea!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Newbie question here: What exactly is the point of a verbal offer? If either the school or student can choose differently in the end, why offer it? She’s also only a 7th grader. That’s a lot of years to possibly suffer injury or even *gasp* decide not to do gymnastics. It’s a weird system to me.

Well... If your dream school is the one that offers you then you take it. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

NCAA needs to put a stop to any offers before high school. It would be that simple, no visits of any kind, no coach communication, no emails. Simply put no recruiting of any kind can take place until high school.

The reason it still happens is that the NCAA does not care enough to stop it.

They will just do more camps .

 

[raenndrops]

The girls who commit to college gym so young are limited in choice of major and career expectations. And my guess is that they don't even realize this.

But if it is their dream school and they are planning to go there no matter what, then maybe they actually aren't limiting their choice of major and career expectations.
Most, if not all, of the bigger schools have plenty of majors to choose from.
All of my possible majors were available at every D1 school that has a gymnastics team.