WAG Coach problem

[munchkin3]

This really upsets me. Adults have much more power over children and are much better at mentally hurting them.
My DD has a great pair of coaches. They are totally different, one is very grandfatherly and quiet. The girls do what he says. The other is very motivating, and connects very well to the girls. Both of them can be VERY tough but it it not personal.

My son on the other hand, had the opposite situation. He had a coach that the parents loved. He was very good at talking and sending emails etc. (parents love that!) But in the gym, you could see the body language. He would personally attack the kids. He would use humiliation as a tool and the boys generally felt NO respect. He would punish the whole team for one child's mistake with military style contidioning. He made gymnastics SO UN-fun.....I used to ask my son if he was OK, and I was worried, and he used to tell me that he was fine, and this was good, and he was 'toughening them up'. Meanwhile my sons decline was obvious. He stopped learning, the teammates were all against each other (coach had favorites) and my son was so lost. I found out after this guy left, that other families were going through exactly what we were!!!

The difference here is my son had ONLY this one coach for the entire 12 hours a week. (More time than he spent with us!!!)

Now his 3 coaches are all very very nice men. They are all very secure with themselves. The boys really love them.

Talk to the owner. Ask for a meeting with this coach and explain what is happening, have your DD there too and start an open dialog with both. They must understand each other. If their relationship can't grow, then you may have to look for options. Your DD is young and she should not have to deal with this. She should be learning in a tough but compassionate environment. She should feel that her coaches care about ALL of her not just gymnastics.

Please coaches, realize that what come out of your mouth can be very hurtful to a child. I know first hand cuz as a MOM I say some huge whoppers sometimes!!! It's taken me years to stop and think, 'do I really need to say that?'.

 

[cbifoja]

I feel very strongly about this subject. I'm not saying leave because some posters have made some valid points. But listen to you mommy radar and pay attention. You've already talked to coaches and have gotten no where. As a consumer, that would really bother me. As a teacher, the coach's "technique" would infuriate me because sarcasm and biting comments mean she has no more tools in her arsenal to coach with and she's become frustrated and having to resort to insults. It is a rare child who can be shamed and bullied into high performance. Horrible teaching/coaching technique.

I don't want my daughter growing up thinking that it is okay for someone to be verbally abusive. I don't mind stern. I don't mind strict. But some coaches cross the line and go beyond stern/strict. I know my child is challenging....she sometimes pouts, she doesn't always make corrections the first three times she's told, she likes to experiment with unusual moves....but she's ten and her self-esteem is still being developed. I want her to grow up realizing that she is worthy of basic respect and civility. I don't want her to believe that "might makes right".

I have had some past problems with an assistant coach that works with DD. It blew up one day and got pretty bad. The difference between our situation is that when I met with the HC, changes were implemented. It hasn't been perfect but I really credit the assistant coach with being willing to learn a better way to speak to kids. She is working hard to try to mend the broken relationship with my child. I admit that I would find it hard to stay in your situation if it means my valid concerns were brushed aside.

 

[munchkin3]

Ability to listen, and grow as a coach is invaluable. Adults must continue to learn and grow too! It's just a bit more touchy when you are involved with kids.
Key words.......10 years old, and her self esteem is developing..........key time for children.
Then term bullying applies to adults as well.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Hard to say and who knows what is really going on, (this is all hear say). In the past and present I have had hundreds of occasions that what the child says happened and how they feel sometimes get mixed. I have had parents come to me infuriated about something that I supposedly said to a child, and then it turns out that it wasn't what was said,,, it was how they took it or twisted it in some cases... It is also common for a child to do what I call a "preemptive strike", this is when a child gets in trouble and knows that the coach is going to talk to the parent, so the child runs to mom and tells her "her side" first and tries to make the mom angry with the coach before they even talk to them. This does happen and usually results in a meeting with the child and mom present and a confession..... (you would be amazed at how many times I have had kids go belly up in front of mom and dad) So you can get answers if you sit down with the coach and your DD at the same time and take a neutral corner.... And in a case like this I think that is the only shot at resolution, the she said/he said will all be in the open. Ask her if she said that about her legs ! But be ready, you may find that the truth is somewhere in the middle.
As far as giving a kid a hard time for allowing a teammate to cheat? YES, I will absolutely give a child a hard time for allowing a teammate to cheat. Once you get a couple of kids openly cheating for each other it creates a downward spiral for the entire group. If I were the parent (OP), I would actually thank the coach and confront my child as to why they are allowing a teammate to cheat. This is a VERY VERY big deal in my gym, creating honesty and accountability is the path to success..
So stop all the chatting and go have a sit down with your DD and the coach and take on objective approach. In the end, if you DD wants to stay then you need to back the coach or you are all spinning your wheels...
Hope that helps.

 

[Paint A Melody]

If she didn't know that she couldn't count them it might have been different. And she shouldn't have been humiliated in front of others who were doing the same thing. I would ask your daughter what she really wants. If she has a coach like that, eventually she'll stop wanting to go to gymnastics.

 

[munchkin3]

Coachp, I hear what you are saying and I would say in the majority of cases, kids do try all these tactics. I'm sure there are a lot of parents out there who think their child is perfect, and would NEVER do those terrible things. I happen to be the other way. I usually am pretty suspicious of my kids. I tend to blame them for everything! I could give you a laundry list of the times I have made my kids apologize to the coach or a team mate for some bone head nonsense.

But what happens if in fact, the adult is to blame here? Is this a pattern? Are there other kids in the same boat? Are other families having the same issues with their girls and this coach? Have there been similar complaints in the past?

In my case, this man had already come with a reputation.....it took two years of his 'new job' to wear him down, and a couple if his students making it to the teenage years for his true colors to show on a daily basis for 2 additional years. In that time, he hurt a lot of kids, most of them quit...i thought I was the only one with a 'problem child' but my gut was telling me otherwise.....this coach was very good with he parents....so I took his work over my child's. After this man left, I found out that ALL the boys over 10 were feeling the same way.

I happen to believe that MOST coaches are very dedicated good people who really love gymnastics and kids. I also believe that there are a few coaches with baggage, and issues and they bring it in the gym. Unfortunately the kids are an easy outlet.

 

[cbifoja]

Ability to listen, and grow as a coach is invaluable. Adults must continue to learn and grow too! It's just a bit more touchy when you are involved with kids.
Key words.......10 years old, and her self esteem is developing..........key time for children.
Then term bullying applies to adults as well.

I agree and this is one reason we returned to her gym. I admit that I was skeptical of the coach's ability to change. I tend to be rather suspicious and a tad cynical. But I can see how hard she is working to grow as a coach and I am learning to trust and respect her more....slowly, but it is coming.

OP, I think it is a dangerous environment anytime the coach is always right. Like a poster above said, everyone has baggage. But when that baggage is brought into the gym and young children have to deal with it, then it is time to re-evaluate. For your situation, the thing I keep coming back to is that you got no where with the HC or owner. We've all heard about "those" coaches. We've read the "tell all" books with a grain of salt, but still....you are being a good parent by taking care of this.

 

[Mimiluv]

Thanks everyone for all the help with this. I am going to watch and not make any decisions now. I think after this season is over and before we decide either way. I will ask the coach to meet with my daughter and I one last time and see what she has to say ect. We really don't want to move gyms and it is a good gym and I think she's a good coach. I think it's a personality clash of sorts.

My DD is shy and quiet and I think when she shrugs her shoulders when she doesn't know something her coach takes that as being sassy?!?

My daughter told me that said coach said " why do you always shake your head yes when I give you a correction,but don't do it" my daughter said "what am I suppose to shake it no" I am pretty sure my DD is afraid to tell this coach when she doesn't understand something and ask her for help.

Can anyone help me think of a nice way to word an email and explain that to this coach? I am afraid I will come off the wrong way lol. I don't want to make things worse for DD. I just want the coach to understand her. I know my dd would NEVER be sassy to a coach and I mean NEVER. But I can see how she might come off that way without meaning too.

 

[munchkin3]

Just explain where you are coming from. Remind the coach that your DD is a good girl, and that she may have her quirks, but she is a keeper.
My son had a teacher who thought eye rolling was a major disrespect.......she would have a hard time with my Dear Husband!....his eyes are like a slot machine!

 

[Mimiluv]

She said am I suppose to shake my head no to me not her coach. I asked lol, cuz if she had that would have been very sassy indeed.

 

[GYM0M]

Thanks everyone for all the help with this. I am going to watch and not make any decisions now. I think after this season is over and before we decide either way. I will ask the coach to meet with my daughter and I one last time and see what she has to say ect. We really don't want to move gyms and it is a good gym and I think she's a good coach. I think it's a personality clash of sorts.

My DD is shy and quiet and I think when she shrugs her shoulders when she doesn't know something her coach takes that as being sassy?!?

My daughter told me that said coach said " why do you always shake your head yes when I give you a correction,but don't do it" my daughter said "what am I suppose to shake it no" I am pretty sure my DD is afraid to tell this coach when she doesn't understand something and ask her for help.

Can anyone help me think of a nice way to word an email and explain that to this coach? I am afraid I will come off the wrong way lol. I don't want to make things worse for DD. I just want the coach to understand her. I know my dd would NEVER be sassy to a coach and I mean NEVER. But I can see how she might come off that way without meaning too.

No emails as you said, they have a tendency to come off all kinds of wrong! If you can truly go in non-confrontational, the coach will be receptive of your calm and collected body language. Those conversations are the most productive!

 

[Mimiluv]

Thanks for the response. I don't want to come off like I'm making excuses to the coach. I find her hard to talk to as well. I honestly feel like she doesn't like me very much either lol. She is very chummy with some of the other parents.

She says my DD doesn't listen which I have NEVER EVER heard from any of her coaches. I think this coach thinks she doesn't listen when she doesn't make the correction, when in fact it's that my Dd didn't understand how to make it or doesn't get it right on the first correction attempt.

I also know my DD is like me in, when I get called on or asked a ? In front of people my mind literally goes blank and I mean blank. So again when she makes my daughter explain what she just said in front of her team she is embarrassed and her mind goes blank and then her coach thinks she doesn't listen.

 

[gymgal]

My DD is shy and quiet and I think when she shrugs her shoulders when she doesn't know something her coach takes that as being sassy?!?

My daughter told me that said coach said " why do you always shake your head yes when I give you a correction,but don't do it" my daughter said "what am I suppose to shake it no" I am pretty sure my DD is afraid to tell this coach when she doesn't understand something and ask her for help.

aha! that makes a lot more sense. This is very common and I am surprised the coach hasn't caught on that your dd really isn't understanding the correction. Yes, you need to talk with the coach about this. She needs to realize that your dd is not being sassy and not purposely disobeying. She is just scared to speak up. At the same time, your dd needs to learn how to be more assertive, which is really hard when she might be afraid to speak up but is necessary for her to learn this if she is going to continue to progress well. I remember dd having this issue a few different times and I coached her through what/how to talk to the coach so that the coach knew she was having trouble "getting" the direction. I also spoke with the coach about it so that she could be observant to dd's body language, helping her read whether dd really did get it or was faking understanding. It really helped. You may want to email the coach, relaying a couple examples of situations in which your dd didn't understand. Be upbeat with a "just wanted you to know..." You can even say something along the lines of "it happens at school too sometimes" so that the coach doesn't feel like it is only her - that you are accusing her of coaching wrong. Let her know that you are working on speaking up with dd at home but it would be great if the coach could keep an eye on it as well.

 

[Mimiluv]

No emails as you said, they have a tendency to come off all kinds of wrong! If you can truly go in non-confrontational, the coach will be receptive of your calm and collected body language. Those conversations are the most productive!

I get what you're saying, it's just very hard to talk to this coach (defensive, unapproachable)!I have tried and her time is limited.

I thought maybe an email would be better. I don't think she likes being put on the spot either.

I could maybe start out with some compliments ect. And then say I think I understand what's happening between DD and her and then proceed to explain. My daughter does want your help and she does want to make the corrections but she doesn't always understand and is scared to tell you that and ask for help.

Sorry my punctuation is terrible when on my phone. Which is all the time.

 

[Mimiluv]

aha! that makes a lot more sense. This is very common and I am surprised the coach hasn't caught on that your dd really isn't understanding the correction. Yes, you need to talk with the coach about this. She needs to realize that your dd is not being sassy and not purposely disobeying. She is just scared to speak up. At the same time, your dd needs to learn how to be more assertive, which is really hard when she might be afraid to speak up but is necessary for her to learn this if she is going to continue to progress well. I remember dd having this issue a few different times and I coached her through what/how to talk to the coach so that the coach knew she was having trouble "getting" the direction. I also spoke with the coach about it so that she could be observant to dd's body language, helping her read whether dd really did get it or was faking understanding. It really helped. You may want to email the coach, relaying a couple examples of situations in which your dd didn't understand. Be upbeat with a "just wanted you to know..." You can even say something along the lines of "it happens at school too sometimes" so that the coach doesn't feel like it is only her - that you are accusing her of coaching wrong. Let her know that you are working on speaking up with dd at home but it would be great if the coach could keep an eye on it as
well.

Can you write an email for me that I can copy lol. You totally understand what I am talking about.

 

[gasrgoose]

I haven't read the entire thread but want to offer my thoughts on coaching problems. Gymnastics is a young athletes sport. It's very different than traditional sports in that the window is small for gymnasts who reach the highest levels and even smaller for the average kid. Don't stay at a gym that is trying to figure it out. "It" could be coaching technique, elite program, growing pains, retention of coaches, grouping of kids in practice, coaching style, etc. I did not want my child in a program that promised they were becoming something when there was another gym that was already there. Don't allow them to figure it out with your child's only chance.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I'm sorry but this drives me crazy. When I tell a child to make a correction, (a simple one) they look at me shake their head and then don't do it, again and again and again and again, I get annoyed too...... I usually tell parents to stay out of it, but at this point (since you are ready to leave) as a parent you should ask your DD, why she is not making these corrections.... Seriously. ask "so you get a correction, nod that you understand it and then don't do it, WHY" Then if she says she doesn't understand the correction, ask what the correction is. You might be shocked at how simple some of these corrections are... Make her write them down on paper, all of them....
You really can't blame the coach on this one (if other problems are the coaches fault then fine), your DD is admitting that she receives the correction and isn't doing it and then complaining to you that the coach is getting irritated..... I don't usually support this, but since you are ready to leave, I bet if you stood right there next to the coach one of two things would happen.
1. Your DD will all of the sudden be making changes, which means she was simply not applying herself to begin with. (this is the most likely outcome).
2. Your DD will not make a simple correction and you will see and feel the coaches pain. (and something needs to change on her end, like stop saying yes when you don't understand).
Conclusion, in either case something needs to change.

Regardless of anything, the more you protect your DD and side with her the longer she will continue with this behavior. Good coach/ bad coach doesn't matter at this point, she is not making corrections and is harming herself and the result is an annoyed coach....
That is all I have to say, and this may sound horrible to some but the main object is to make the child a better gymnast and this is the start of it.. Please look objectively, and yes ultimately it could be that the coach is a total idiot, who knows!
Hope that helps.

 

[twinmomma]

You're assuming that the communication line is clear. I know for a fact my 8 year old DD has likely nodded her head at her coach not fully understanding what she's asking her, whether due to the language barrier or because my DD has a hard time converting words into body action (she does better when a coach actually has another kid show her or holds her body in the position she needs). Coachp seems to often forget these are LITTLE GIRLS who want to please the adults around them and will nod in agreement for fear of letting someone down. It isn't easy to admit you don't know what's being asked of you. Even ADULTS have a hard time with this. It's also the COACH'S responsibilty to ensure the girls understand what is being said.

 

[MomIdidit!]

I'm sorry but this drives me crazy. When I tell a child to make a correction, (a simple one) they look at me shake their head and then don't do it, again and again and again and again, I get annoyed too...... I usually tell parents to stay out of it, but at this point (since you are ready to leave) as a parent you should ask your DD, why she is not making these corrections.... Seriously. ask "so you get a correction, nod that you understand it and then don't do it, WHY" Then if she says she doesn't understand the correction, ask what the correction is. You might be shocked at how simple some of these corrections are... Make her write them down on paper, all of them....
You really can't blame the coach on this one (if other problems are the coaches fault then fine), your DD is admitting that she receives the correction and isn't doing it and then complaining to you that the coach is getting irritated..... I don't usually support this, but since you are ready to leave, I bet if you stood right there next to the coach one of two things would happen.
1. Your DD will all of the sudden be making changes, which means she was simply not applying herself to begin with. (this is the most likely outcome).
2. Your DD will not make a simple correction and you will see and feel the coaches pain. (and something needs to change on her end, like stop saying yes when you don't understand).
Conclusion, in either case something needs to change.

Regardless of anything, the more you protect your DD and side with her the longer she will continue with this behavior. Good coach/ bad coach doesn't matter at this point, she is not making corrections and is harming herself and the result is an annoyed coach....
That is all I have to say, and this may sound horrible to some but the main object is to make the child a better gymnast and this is the start of it.. Please look objectively, and yes ultimately it could be that the coach is a total idiot, who knows!
Hope that helps.

 

[skschlag]

Yes, it is the coach's job to make sure that the kids are understanding. But if the child is nodding like they understand, then the coach thinks that the words are making sense. My ds also frequently needs physical spotting to learn a new skill, as most kids do.

Now, if the coach is truly being mean, demeaming, rude, etc., then that is a different issue. Our coach will use sarcasm with the kids, as I do from time to time. Our coach gets angry when a kid is still not doing a correction after 5-6 7-8 times of nodding and saying the y understand and not doing it.

Gymnastics teaches so much more than physical skills. The life skill of saying "hey, I'm not understanding this" is huge. It translates to all parts of life. BEing able to say to a teacher, coach, etc that you need more clarifiation is a great skill.

And, all coaching styles don't fit all kids. Just because it doesn't fit the kid doesn't make the kid wrong or the coach wrong. It is just a poor fit. In my case, my ds has to deal with it or quit because we have no options. But, if you do have options, then you can look into them.