Parents Coaching PD and training?

[Aussie_coach]

Interesting. So all the insurance at gyms is run through the federation? Here the only insurance handled by USAG is the insurance for those at sanctioned USAG competitions(only competitive gymnasts have to register and part of their USAG reg fee goes to this insurance). Recreational gymnasts(and competitive gymnasts injured at practice) would go through a gyms private insurance company, reports would be filled out and go to them. Gyms pay for insurance based on the numbers they have in their program. Recreational and competitive gymnatics are essentionally two different systems. Not all gyms are even members of USAG, it is not required unless you want to enter USAG sanctioned competitions.

This is the same in Australia.

Gymnastics Australia carries full insurance for the clubs. Clubs must register ALL gymnasts whether they are competitive or recreational. In my state at least yiu pay the exact same fee to register a gymnast whether they are competitive or recreational.

In order for your gym to be covered by insurance the following must apply.
1. All gymnasts are registered
2. All coaches are current technical members with Gymnastics Australia
3. Coaches are only teaching those skills allowed by their coaching level

There are lots of other requirements too, like all classes must have pre written lesson plans, equipment needs to meet certain safety standards as does the venue in general and so on.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Yes, parents do care. But they have the freedom here(and the responsibility) to evaluate for themselves what program to choose and the risks they will take with their children. This is usually done by word of mouth(reputation) and watching the program.

I have to state again, the sheer volume of kids we have here doing gymnastics. 5 million plus, with only about 100,000(2 percent) of those doing team level gymnastics. The rec kids are there to have some fun, burn off some energy, learn how to do rolls and cartwheels. Finding a coach with the personality to engage these kids is most important. The more experienced coaches on staff can then teach them how to teach the skills.

But how is the average parent supposed to know the risks involved in a gymnastics program. Most parents have never done gymnastics and have no idea what is and is not safe to teach and what is and is not an unsafe way to teach it.

 

[Aussie_coach]

If you're learning a BHS, you're either in tumbling specific class or on pre-team or other developmental class, which is above recreation classes for the most part. Now, I can tell you in dance kids are learning "tricks" as well. I'm not for more regulation by a governing board for recreational classes of any sort. Next painting classes will need to be taught by a pro, when really parents just want a quick camp over the summer so they can do grocery shopping with out the kids

Back handsprings are taught in many recreational programs.

 

[wandrewsjr]

This is what Little Gym is. You have these? Think they are world wide but don't know their extent. This is also pretty much the limit to skill level you will find in recreational classes in the US. Would generally have to enter a pre-competition level to get more than handsprings on floor, cartwheel on beam and front/back hip circles on bars. Vast majority of rec classes have skill level lower than that.

 

[wandrewsjr]

But how is the average parent supposed to know the risks involved in a gymnastics program. Most parents have never done gymnastics and have no idea what is and is not safe to teach and what is and is not an unsafe way to teach it.

Obviously the more training in any profession the better. Certification is done through USAG, required for team coaches not for recreational, but all training and certification offered by USAG is available to all coaches.

Speaking specifically to safety, I can only stress this point. We pay for insurance privately here. If having recreational coaches go through the national governing body certification process made recreational gymnasts demonstrably safer(through lower injury rates) than insurance companies would charge more to those whose staff didn't all do it, the actuaries would see to that.

Gyms here want to keep their gymnasts safe because they care about the kids and, frankly, it's good for business. Having an unsafe gym is bad for business. They run in house programs to insure the gymnasts safety. Definately not saying the US way is better, but that's how it currently is.

 

[wandrewsjr]

not sure what those programmes are but we have rec only programmes in leisure centres, schools and the like, and yes they fall under the remit of BG.

Link Removed

Apparently they are worldwide! Had no idea their extent until I searched. Here are their GB locations:
http://www.thelittlegym.eu/UK

 

[wandrewsjr]

I also need to add the caveat that it's been quite a few years since I was intimately involved with the business side of gym. If anything I'm saying is innacurate or outdated please jump in and correct!

 

[Jenny]

Well looking at their video to support a cartwheel on beam you need a level 1 BG WAG qual. To coach a back handspring on floor a level 2. You are uninsured otherwise. We have different qualifications for Rec (called General Gymnastics) tumbling, tramp, WAG, MAG , Team gym, etc. Most rec classes are in leisure centres and schools and gyms. They are all definitely in the BG rec system.

I looked at the little gym nearest me and the lead 'instructor' claims to have a high level gymnastics coaching qualification. Maybe it is a grey area with them calling the coaches instructors and not coaches. But they talk about children learning high level gymnastics skills. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court if the coaches weren't qualified and insured to coach the moves they were teaching.

Everyone having regular contact with children has to have a background check (this is a government rule not a BG thing as Margo already said)

I think the advantage of our governing body doing the qualifications as standard is everyone knows what that person with that qual can do. And I agree with the poster that said most parents don't have the knowledge to assess the quality and safety of coaching themselves. All our sports coaches are qualified not just gymnastics. A governing body qualification seems a very sensible way to do this. Nothing is perfect of course.

 

[gymyogimom]

With how lawsuit happy Americans tend to be, insurance companies would require certification if non certified coaches for recreational classes were unsafe.

The two main questions for having mandatory certification at the recreational level, to me, are:

1. Is it safer than on the job training?
2. Is it creating better recreational gymnasts?

Both, to me, are questionable. If it is a long certification process in person, then yes. But to make a costly, long course it would probably create higher prices and fewer kids could try gymnastics.

The free market allows families to leave gyms where kids aren't learning. Safety-wise, insurance premiums mean gym owners choose to make sure coaches at the Rex level are ready and trust worthy and shadow and do on the job training.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Well looking at their video to support a cartwheel on beam you need a level 1 BG WAG qual. To coach a back handspring on floor a level 2. You are uninsured otherwise. We have different qualifications for Rec (called General Gymnastics) tumbling, tramp, WAG, MAG , Team gym, etc. Most rec classes are in leisure centres and schools and gyms. They are all definitely in the BG rec system.

I looked at the little gym nearest me and the lead 'instructor' claims to have a high level gymnastics coaching qualification. Maybe it is a grey area with them calling the coaches instructors and not coaches. But they talk about children learning high level gymnastics skills. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court if the coaches weren't qualified and insured to coach the moves they were teaching.

Everyone having regular contact with children has to have a background check (this is a government rule not a BG thing as Margo already said)

I think the advantage of our governing body doing the qualifications as standard is everyone knows what that person with that qual can do. And I agree with the poster that said most parents don't have the knowledge to assess the quality and safety of coaching themselves. All our sports coaches are qualified not just gymnastics. A governing body qualification seems a very sensible way to do this. Nothing is perfect of course.

So Little Gym isn't under the umbrella of British Gymnastics or is and operating uninsured? This is recreational gymnastics, and what you describe as a lead coach with credentials while the lower level are instructors is essentially how all recreational gymnastics is treated in the US(USAG refers to those who aren't professional members/coaches as instructors). Recreational instructors at all gyms, whether they are at team gymnastics level training facilities or smaller recreational only gyms like Little Gym are treated the same.

 

[Jenny]

So Little Gym isn't under the umbrella of British Gymnastics or is and operating uninsured? This is recreational gymnastics, and what you describe as a lead coach with credentials while the lower level are instructors is essentially how all recreational gymnastics is treated in the US(USAG refers to those who aren't professional members/coaches as instructors). Recreational instructors at all gyms, whether they are at team gymnastics level training facilities or smaller recreational only gyms like Little Gym are treated the same.

No idea I would hope they are all insured and qualified and operating under BG. The Website is very fuzzy and vague and doesn't really say anything. You are allowed to assist unqualified but must be under the direct supervision of a suitably qualified coach. Ie they have to be on the floor with the group. Not in the office or somewhere in the building. Unqualified coaches cannot take responsibility for a group. Nor can Level 1 coaches. And there are suggested limited for children that a level 2 qualified coach can supervise. I think it is 1 level 2 coach for 16 children. So if you have only 1 level 2 coach you cannot have more than 16 children in the gym at that time and that coach much be directly supervising and coaching those children. Maybe they have found a way round it.

 

[OzZee]

Ahh but as a parent (esp of a beginner rec gymnast) how would you know you are in a club with strong internal coach development.

At least with mandatory national accreditation and training hopefully all clubs and coaches will be up to date with the latest safety and training information.

If you are with a good club the in house training and mentoring and development are a given anyway.
That's what makes them better.

Please understand what being 'accredited' actually means

The person has attend a course and filled in the work book, anyone can do this, its not hard, you could go and do the course and compete the work and become accredited . They also have to pay a hefty amount to achieve this ( so you are also paying for that somewhere). As a parent you would be far better off in a club that has strong internal coach development rather that one that simply tick the boxes with the GA/State accreditation courses.

Cost to become an accredited beginner coach
Online course $100
Face to face course $150 - approx, depends on state
Working with children check card $60-$90 ( I have no issues with requiring this one)
Technical membership $200 - approx, depends on state

 

[wandrewsjr]

No idea I would hope they are all insured and qualified and operating under BG. The Website is very fuzzy and vague and doesn't really say anything. You are allowed to assist unqualified but must be under the direct supervision of a suitably qualified coach. Ie they have to be on the floor with the group. Not in the office or somewhere in the building. Unqualified coaches cannot take responsibility for a group. Nor can Level 1 coaches. And there are suggested limited for children that a level 2 qualified coach can supervise. I think it is 1 level 2 coach for 16 children. So if you have only 1 level 2 coach you cannot have more than 16 children in the gym at that time and that coach much be directly supervising and coaching those children. Maybe they have found a way round it.

The under direct supervision/on the floor makes sense as their way around(if that's what they are doing). The Little Gyms I have seen are one room, usually in a strip mall or shopping center. I suppose one could make a reasonable argument that anyone in the room is "on the floor". From the website looks like they are in Canada and Australia too. Anyone there have insight on their operation?

 

[Aussie_coach]

The under direct supervision/on the floor makes sense as their way around(if that's what they are doing). The Little Gyms I have seen are one room, usually in a strip mall or shopping center. I suppose one could make a reasonable argument that anyone in the room is "on the floor". From the website looks like they are in Canada and Australia too. Anyone there have insight on their operation?

I have never seen or heard of them in Australia. But I looked at the website and they on,y have two locations in the whole country and they are both in another state to me. So no idea how they work.