Conditioning as a punishment?

[fishchimes]

Occasionally our coach will have us do conditioning if we are consistently failing to stick our tumbling passes/falling off the beam on easy skills/just generally flopping around and being lazy. Usually it's only if it's something we're focusing on for the practice, for example one day our coach might decide to really focus on sticking our tumbling and if we don't stick it we get 10 push ups or something. Often it's easy conditioning. We're often threatened with doing conditioning for the rest of practice but I've never seen that put into effect. xD

Nobody ever has to do conditioning as a punishment for not making a skill, per se, but they might have to do supplemental drills or exercises to help them make it.

I think that conditioning should not be used as a punishment. However, having kids sit out is sometimes ineffective as that is what they've been wanting to do anyway...

 

[tumblerK]

After reading other posts about this I have tried not to use conditioning as a punishment, but that's what all my coaches have done, and I still do in a few cases.

Any time someone lands on their butt and puts their arms behind them to break their fall, it's an automatic 20 candlestick jumps. As they are doing these I inform them that if they are falling backwards that they should roll backwards out of it just like the jumps they are dong because what they were doing before is a very good way to break both arms.

The falling off beam thing... yes I use this. It's not 25-50 of somthing though, it's usually 10 push ups or sit ups, and it's just during warm up on the things they really should be staying on the beam for. It just makes the girls pay a little more attention to what they're doing.

And then there's the times when I ask the group to clear off the floor, and only one or two girls help. Then I yell "Everybody except [name] twenty push ups right now." This is followed with the question of if they heard me tell them to clear off the floor.

The rest tends to be more of a threat of conditioning. Does that count?

For example, when the level 2-4s runs before vault get a little slow, I tell them "I want you to run like a big scary man is chasing you. If you don't, I'll have [name of slightly orlder gymnast or older sister] chase you on the next turn, and if she catches you then you have 500 push ups.

Guess what? They always run faster next time.

The other case is when they're having troubles with consistency. I have one of those really long gangly girls that tends to have bent legs all the time. When she was first learning glide swings her legs were bent, but after a few turns she did a couple really nice ones with straight legs. A couple turns after that she went back to bent legs, so it turned into "Do the next one with straight legs or you have 10 sit ups. And for every one you do with bent legs after that it will double."

I myself was a victim of the "Throw the next one or you have 500 push ups next practice" deal when I had a mental block on front handspring front tucks. This was after the coaches stood there for 2 passes, both of the front tucks were level with their heads as their hands were clasped tightly behind their backs so they wouldn't spot me, so I was perfectly capable of completing the pass safely and was suffering from purely mental road blocks. I did 500 pushups next practice and thought of my front pass the whole time. That mental block only lasted maybe a week or two after that.

So I am trying to move away from this, but this is what I'm used to... it's a work in progress.

 

[gymdog]

My rule is that you do the drills and you do it correctly or you don't move on (or up). I have very high standards for technique and progressions. If a child does something incorrectly more than once, I move them back down to the next highest progression, or part of the skill. For something like running, I do a lot of running drills, however I think speed can be overemphasized at the lowest levels to some extent and I would rather see correct running form and correct board work first. Many children just don't know how to run effectively and need to work on it. But the girls don't do any handstand or handstand flatback until they can do sufficient run, jump on, and then we start with doing the preflight over my head (so they are staying tight and doing the right direction off the board and I am helping lift them to the correct stretch position). After many times of this and a review each vault rotation even for the 4s, we had vault scores in the 9s and level 4 vault state champions. There is no time to do "non-specific" conditioning like sit ups because I have event specific conditioning and body awareness drills set up on the way back (arch rocks, heel drives, board bounce, preflight timer, etc). If necessary they may be sent to review one of these stations under my guidance before moving on but sending them to sit ups is not effective in my opinion.

With the right building blocks, you can start with a good base and correct from there, eliminating a fair amount of frustration on both sides and making more effective choices for motivation and correction than non-specific conditioning. I can get the kids to put the quality time in when they know we'll do something fun if they can complete the assignment. It is a tricky balance to keep them motivated but even with routines you need to keep them on their toes coming up with different ways to practice, cold routines, in a row, charts, different things with music, everyone around the floor to make eye contact, doing beam to a beat, etc.

 

[triptwister]

Punishment and disciplining are complicated issues in gymnastics. Both punishment and the act of disciplining have their places. By the time a gymnast reaches an elite status, they are veterans of both regimens.

The first reality a coach comes to terms with is that human nature causes gymnasts to create circumstances where the actions committed violate gym codes and standards and policies as well as shortfalls following instructions.

The second reality that coaches come to terms with is that most circumstances need productive corrective measures that enhance the purpose of training. Disciplining can be productive, constructive, corrective, and a punishment all at the same time. The element of punishment may be secondary and subdued but is not eliminated from disciplinary actions.

Punishment has its place in the gym. Any coach that says they do not punish gymnasts is either in denial or lying. From raising their voice, to stern looks, to a double meaning joke, to physical remunerations, its punishment.

If discipline is productive and corrective and punishment is not the primary intent then the gymnast is benefited in that the gymnast learns from their mistakes. However, if the tort is an outright "crime" against gym codes or policies then a consequence needs to paid (punishment). Punishment may become the primary intent when the mistake was defined before committing it.

Sometimes conditioning will do just fine. Especially if they do conditioning for the rest of the night while everyone else is practicing.

 

[Itstrueimagymnast]

Ok, so its a no? I mean, we do use it if we miss a deadline on a skill, or mess up something in competition pretty badly. It has been as much as 300 pushups for bailing on a vault. Is that not normal? I don't know, if the kids already see conditioning as bad, would you just go with it, or try to change their view?

 

[marie83]

Any coach that says they do not punish gymnasts is either in denial or lying. From raising their voice, to stern looks, to a double meaning joke, to physical remunerations, its punishment

I agree, sometimes children need to be taught right from wrong, however, I really don't think conditioning should ever be used in a negative way.

A gymnast is late to training - what would 100 push ups really do to make them turn up on time next session? Nothing, They just won't like push ups. It's more than likely their parent's fault for making them late, or traffic or unforseen circumstances. Continual lateness needs to be addressed with a parent.

A gymnast continually falls off the beam - how is 100 push ups going to help? Again, they won't! Most gymnasts will try their hardest to stay on the beam for a reward such as a sticker, punishing them for falling off will just make them hate coming to gym. Someone who falls off on simple exercises like walking should just be made to do more and more walking and some extra mid body conditioning - not as a punishment, but just to help them build the correct muscles - this should be explained to them.

If a gymnast is generally being silly/dangerous, I'd just send them home, or sit them out for 5 or 10 mins. To my gymnasts that is more of a punishment than conditioning!

Ok, so its a no? I mean, we do use it if we miss a deadline on a skill, or mess up something in competition pretty badly. It has been as much as 300 pushups for bailing on a vault. Is that not normal? I don't know, if the kids already see conditioning as bad, would you just go with it, or try to change their view?

300 push ups for bailing on a vault? I don't know about anywhere else but at my gym that isn't normal - if a gymnast is bailing on a vault, shouldn't it be the coaches job to find out why? Rather than punishing a gymnast I'd take it back a stage. If it was in competition, surely messing up is bad enough without being punished for it as well. I know my gymnasts would be gutted if they'd messed up!

If gymnasts already see conditioning as bad, Its going to be hard to get them out of that mindset, but I'd give it a go! I'm lucky enough to coach our youngest gymnasts, so I get to instill positive conditioning attitudes in the gymnasts straight away, however a little while back when conditioning was used as punishment in my gym, the older girls used to hate conditioning. When they saw the younger girls achieving skills faster than them they wondered why - when they realised it was because they were very well conditioned they soon changed their attitudes and actually started asking if they could condition more!

 

[kflipz]

At my gym as a punishment we use math equations as a punishment. If we are not focusing or falling alot, they make us do percentages in out head, and we must figure it out in 5 minutes. Some include percentages such as If I do 500 of 1100, what percentage am I doing? Etc.

 

[PalePrincess]

Hey everybody! I was wondering if, as a coach, you give conditioning as a punishment? I know our coach does, to the point of bringing me to tears. Do you use conditioning as a punishment? Why or why not?

yeh we get it im not keen on it but i want to do olympics or somthin similar so i just shut up and do it

 

[NGL780309]

DD's coaches do give it for punishment. I don't really have a problem with it. It's usually for being rowdy or silly. Sometimes they do it for falling off beam. Rather it's right or wrong it usually seems to work for DD. She had a habit of popping off the beam every time a skill was a little off. The coach started making her run a lap for jumping off the beam and not fighting to stay on. It solved that problem really quick. It was one practice and it worked.

I have heard her use it a few times that I thought was dead wrong. One girl has been struggling with her BHS and was bending her arms. She told this girl that if she bent her arms again the entire team was conditioning. To me that's just bad coaching. The coach didn't follow through with it anyway.

The coach has also said if one more person plays on the bar the entire group will condition. My DD took this chance to play on the bar 5 minutes later and cause the whole team to condition. I made her apologize to the coach. I didn't mind that situation because it was a safety issue and something they could control.

 

[fishchimes]

Another note:

Before meets we have a special practice we do mainly routines. Sometimes, if you fall on a skill during the special practice, you get 25 of the skill next practice. If you fall at the meet, it become 50. I think it makes sense but it's a little harsh; falling at the actual meet is punishment enough. No conditioning though.

 

[MamaOf2Gymnasts]

What about during conditioning, if someone does it wrong, or with improper form, the whole group is punished and has to start over or do an extra pass. I know this is a military training tactic, but is it necessary or effective in gymnastics conditioning? I don't think it builds a team spirit -- I think it just makes everyone resentful toward the person who has trouble with form or laziness.

 

[marie83]

What about during conditioning, if someone does it wrong, or with improper form, the whole group is punished and has to start over or do an extra pass. I know this is a military training tactic, but is it necessary or effective in gymnastics conditioning? I don't think it builds a team spirit -- I think it just makes everyone resentful toward the person who has trouble with form or laziness.

I agree - I used to do this in my younger days as I thought nobody would want to be the one to cause everyone to do it over, but I was wrong, there will always be those who think they can get away with it! And you are right, it does just cause resentment and low morale.

From the very beginning now I encourage the gymnasts to do what they can properly. I have discovered that asking for too much too soon is a big cause of 'cheating' or sloppy form, so I am a big fan of small repetitions of exercises but really doing them properly. Once I am happy that a gymnast can keep good form for longer, I increase the number of reps.

I also find that talking to them about conditioning and explaining why it is important helps to combat the cheating. I have to do this quite often!
I am pretty lucky in that my group are very hard working and I only have 2 out of 8 who I really have to keep my eye on.

My favourite thing to say is 'you are only cheating yourself - I don't mind if you cheat because it doesn't actually make a difference to me. If you choose not to condition properly, you will be the one who doesn't achieve x,y or z, not me! (No matter how many times I've said this, the effect is always the same, the gymnast in question starts working 100% harder, and even adds a few more reps, just to prove that she wants to get her skill!)

 

[Linsul]

I don't use conditioning as a punishment, but I do use it as an alternative. If things are going badly or attention spans are short, then we condition. It's not done with an atmosphere of dread. It's more of a 'well, we can't practice 'x,y,z' skills safely at the moment, so we can get ourselves stronger for when we're ready to concentrate.' Really it's all good, and useful way to spend time when things are too haywire to get some practice in. If the kids don't like it then they may concentrate faster, but it's not done in frustration or anger so I don't think they perceive it as punishment.

 

[lilgymmie7]

My DD doesn't particularly like conditioning. However, she likes to show off her newly learned conditioning skill to her brother at home. Her coach told me yesterday that she has to climb the rope only using her arms if she misses the high bar catch for the level 5 routine. He informed me that it seems to work for her because instead of climbing the rope she grabs the bar and finishes her routine. She liked to 'pretend' she couldn't grab it, and now the rope climbing has changed everything.
Conditioning is rarely used as a punishment, but there are some instances that it works for certain gymnasts. Plus coach also added that she could work on level 6 skills if she sucessfully completes her level 5 routine. Bars was her nemesis before, but now hopefully it isn't.

 

[I<3bars]

yup

We have to do pushups if we fall off the beam and since I dont want to do push ups I do the skills really timid.

 

[gymnast695]

My old gym used conditioning as a punishment.. if we did something wrong, talked too much, were being lazy, or anything like that, we'd condition for the rest of practice. It was dreadful! I absoluely hated it! And if my coach felt very mean, he'd do the tactic that MamaOf2Gymnasts stated. Where if someone fell off a turn on beam, we'd all have to start over, or if doing plank holds someone put there knees down or some form of cheating like that, we'd have to go longer. Luckily, at my new gym, conditioning is the first 45 min of practice every day, which I still don't enjoy but its not a punishment and it's simply to get stronger and better!

 

[Azgymmiemom]

I must say that I never had a problem with conditioning as a punishment for unruliness...until tonight. My dd's level 4 coach made her do 5 ropes(no legs) tonight for "talking in line". The girl she was talking with did not do any, just my dd. By the 4th rope she was crying because her arms hurt so bad...this was at the end of a 3 hr. practice and they had already done ropes earlier. the hc talked to her to calm her down and have her finish, but she was so tired on the last rope that she used her legs and actually slid down the rope some...she now has bad rope burn between her legs. I saw all this because it was the end of practice. My dd is very quiet normally. She rarely causes problems, in fact, one of the other team moms couldn't believe that my dd got in trouble in the first place, so I feel this was pretty harsh.

I get that you need to have discipline and order in class, but, hey! she's 7, not 15!! and shouldn't the girls be allowed to talk to their team mates? does everything have to be done silently? She isn't going to want to go to gym if it isn't at least a little bit social and fun...she's not training elite-just level 4!!

Maybe I'm over reacting, but when I have to help her take a bath because her legs are so raw she can't stand the water...there's a problem.

 

[mariposa]

AZ- I would be furious. That was over the top and the fact that HC comforted her, but made her finish makes me even more upset. Had I been watching, I probably would have pulled my kid. I would be having a talk with them. That really was excessive and could have been dangerous. If you are sobbing while trying to climb the rope with no feet, you could fall and be injured. I think you are right to be upset. Your poor girly. Hugs to her and you. I would definitely be sending an email (I couldn't do it talking, I would be too upset) to owner/HC.

I disagree strongly with using conditioning as a punishment. I am glad they don't do that at DDs gym, they did at her old gym and she hated conditioning. Now she loves it.

 

[gymdog]

I must say that I never had a problem with conditioning as a punishment for unruliness...until tonight. My dd's level 4 coach made her do 5 ropes(no legs) tonight for "talking in line". The girl she was talking with did not do any, just my dd. By the 4th rope she was crying because her arms hurt so bad...this was at the end of a 3 hr. practice and they had already done ropes earlier. the hc talked to her to calm her down and have her finish, but she was so tired on the last rope that she used her legs and actually slid down the rope some...she now has bad rope burn between her legs. I saw all this because it was the end of practice. My dd is very quiet normally. She rarely causes problems, in fact, one of the other team moms couldn't believe that my dd got in trouble in the first place, so I feel this was pretty harsh.

I get that you need to have discipline and order in class, but, hey! she's 7, not 15!! and shouldn't the girls be allowed to talk to their team mates? does everything have to be done silently? She isn't going to want to go to gym if it isn't at least a little bit social and fun...she's not training elite-just level 4!!

Maybe I'm over reacting, but when I have to help her take a bath because her legs are so raw she can't stand the water...there's a problem.

You are not over-reacting. She's SEVEN. This is way out of line. I hate seeing young children getting visibly upset and coaches who have no concept of young children and don't care. It's sickening to me.

You need to set up a meeting with the HC and make it very clear if you see this again, you will remove your daughter for the night and reconsider your participation in the program. And don't hesistate to remove her.

 

[fishchimes]

That sounds really unfair, especially since she's not someone who gets in trouble all the time, and the other girl didn't have to do it.

I heard about a girl who got bad rope burn from sliding and actually had to get STITCHES. Really awkward. I always believe people should be able to drop from the rope into a very squishy mat or pit.