Confused Coach

[GetaGrip]

There are only three level 8's at our gym, including me, and my coach for some reason does not know the new rules for level 8 and has many girls doing un-allowable skills. Luckily for me, I am the worst level 8, and he wants me to do the bare minimum. I've tried to tell my teammates, but they don't believe me when I tell them the skills they are doing aren't allowed.

I may have forgotten, but are these skills okay?

Straddle 1/4- Level 7 beam

Straddle 1/1- Level 7/8 floor

Bhs Bhs- Level 7 beam

Front 1/1- Level 8 floor

Back 3/2- Level 8 floor

Back 2/1- Level 8 floor

Double back- Level 8 bars

Toe on hect- Level 8 bars

Giants 1/2, Giants in the other direction- Level 8 bars

Tsukahara Arabian- Level 8 vault

Front walkover mount- Level 8 beam


Yes, there are a lot of skills, and all of these are going to be done by someone, but thank goodness not me.

-Lauren

 

[Doubledouble]

Straddle 1/4 - I believe this is a "C" level skill and therefore unallowable
in level 7
Straddle 1/1 (Popa) - I believe this is a "C" level skill and therefore okay
for level 8 floor, but not okay for level 7 floor
(I am not certain on these two as my code is at the gym)

BHS-BHS Level 7 Beam - okay and fullfills series and flight requirements
Front 1/1, Back 3/2, 2/1 - These are all "C" level skills and therefore
unallowable at level 8
Double back Level 8 Bars - "C" skill and unallowable for level 8
Toe Hecht Level 8 Bars - "C" skill and unallowable for level 8
Giants 1/2, Giants in other direction - Not sure what you mean here - if
you mean a blind to front giants, those are unallowable
at level 8; if you mean 1/2 pirouette to giants facing the
low bar, those are allowable
Tsukahara arabian - unallowable at level 8
Front walkover mount - allowable at level 8

For level 7, all "A" and "B" level skills are allowed, with no "C" skills; the only exception being level 7 bars, where free-hip hand and 1/2 pirouettes are acceptable.
For level 8, all "A" and "B" level skills are allowed, with the only "C" skills allowed being dance on floor and beam, and the same "C" skills on bars as level 7, as well as stalder to handstand and toe-on-toe-off handstand. The only flipping vaults allowed are Tsuk/Yurchenko tuck, pike, and tuck 1/2 (different from arabian).

Sorry if this is confusing, but the rules are never simple!

 

[10.0]

Are these skills he had them do at competitions? Are you sure he isn't uptraining them to be level 9's next season? That is kind of weird to be that off on the rules.

 

[gymdog]

Yeah, it's the C acro that isn't allowed at L8. However many of the skills listed are acro, so aren't allowed at L8. I'm not sure what your teammates could do anyway though, if the coach is not paying attention to these things. Perhaps the parents could request a meeting, but otherwise, I guess it's going to be a rude awakening at the first meet.

When I competed L8, Cs were allowed, and I was doing a double back off bars. I could also do a pak salto, which is a D, which I knew wasn't allowed (2 point deduction at the time). However, my coach at the time (not the most effective I've ever seen, but whatever) insisted it was allowed at L8. I wasn't going to waste time arguing with him since I'd never win, so I just planned to go into the first meet figuring it would come to a head then. But the week before another coach noticed and set him straight anyway and asked why I was practicing a routine I couldn't compete.

So, most optional seasons still don't start for another almost 6 months, so it's not really routine time anyway. Many gyms train up for skills in the summer and it doesn't mean they are in the routine, it just means you're ready to start learning them. Who knows if he plans on having them compete these skills, or go to L9 later in the season, or what. But hopefully closer to meet time if they are doing L8 he will either change the routines or another coach will notice and have them changed.

 

[GetaGrip]

I just realized this may have been better in Question and Answer forum, so sorry about that! My internet has been a bit dodgy lately, so I haven't been on for a while.

Unfortunately for me and my teammates, our first meet is in the middle of January, so our coach thinks that its time to learn routines. We do uptraining a lot on tumble track and sometimes on beam, but other then that we're just working on perfecting our routines for this new season.

One of my teammates, Hana, is going to be doing most of these skills. I tried to tell her and our coach that she's going to get it at her first meet, but he just gave me a very long and confusing explanation about how he was right, and I just gave up.

Just wondering, how big of a deduction is it for each skill that is not allowed done?

Thanks!

-Lauren

 

[gym monkeys mom]

Do you have a code of point for optionals at your gym.

You know the big yellow bible for USAG untill 2013.

Available off the website is a wuick cheat sheet for whats allowed/notallowed at each level.

Ii would start there with any team coach in the club who would listen. Even if it is not your coach or maybe a gym owner. Maybe he is uptraining and not telling anyone.

Good luck

 

[GetaGrip]

My coach has the old version.

 

[gymdog]

I just realized this may have been better in Question and Answer forum, so sorry about that! My internet has been a bit dodgy lately, so I haven't been on for a while.

Unfortunately for me and my teammates, our first meet is in the middle of January, so our coach thinks that its time to learn routines. We do uptraining a lot on tumble track and sometimes on beam, but other then that we're just working on perfecting our routines for this new season.

One of my teammates, Hana, is going to be doing most of these skills. I tried to tell her and our coach that she's going to get it at her first meet, but he just gave me a very long and confusing explanation about how he was right, and I just gave up.

Just wondering, how big of a deduction is it for each skill that is not allowed done?

Thanks!

-Lauren

Right...middle of Jan is pretty common for an optional season (although my state starts much earlier, this is still considered not meet imminent time). That's like six months away. I would wait until closer to meet time to worry about it, basically. It's possible if they have all those skills he is planning to move them to level 9.

 

[GetaGrip]

All of us are new level 8's. We've NEVER competed it before so it's not allowed for us to jump up to level 9. Besides, I don't think that my coach knows that you can just compete one meet at one level to move up to the next level and compete it the same season. He's kinda old fashioned...

Does any one know the deductions for performing unallowable skills?

 

[LMV]

I think that having prohibited skills results in a 0.5 deduction [and there isn't any credit for the skill given so if it was part of a series then the series won't receive credit]. Our daughter had some tumbling she wanted in her beam routine that she had to take out for that reason and that seemed to be the gist of her coach's explanation.

 

[gym law mom]

I think that having prohibited skills results in a 0.5 deduction [and there isn't any credit for the skill given so if it was part of a series then the series won't receive credit]. Our daughter had some tumbling she wanted in her beam routine that she had to take out for that reason and that seemed to be the gist of her coach's explanation.

I think that is basically correct, so you get .5 off of a lower SV(since no credit given for the skill).

And GymCat Girl isn't the only one with coaches that have the old COP or haven't really read the new one. In the above scenario we have a coach who still insists the routine would be voided.

 

[gymdog]

It's .5 plus no value. So if the unallowable element is fulfilling a special requirement that isn't otherwise fulfilled, that's an additional .5 off the SV, which is probably likely to happen (or they'll be missing a B).

 

[LMV]

It's .5 plus no value. So if the unallowable element is fulfilling a special requirement that isn't otherwise fulfilled, that's an additional .5 off the SV, which is probably likely to happen (or they'll be missing a B).

So, by this, it seems that a gymnast who did a BHS-BHS-BT series in her L8 beam routine would just lose 0.5 for including the back tuck? Or would the addition of the back tuck void the rest of the series?

 

[gympanda]

So, by this, it seems that a gymnast who did a BHS-BHS-BT series in her L8 beam routine would just lose 0.5 for including the back tuck? Or would the addition of the back tuck void the rest of the series?

The BHS-BHS part of the series would still count, and assuming they are connected the SR would be fulfilled.

 

[gymdog]

So, by this, it seems that a gymnast who did a BHS-BHS-BT series in her L8 beam routine would just lose 0.5 for including the back tuck? Or would the addition of the back tuck void the rest of the series?

Well that would be pretty unusual, but yeah, she still has two allowable elements connected so she's fine (except for the unallowable one). If she were to do BHS-BT, and then no other acro series that fulfills the level 8 requirements, then she would be missing a series. Another possibility would be not having enough value parts. So if the kid is doing 3 Bs and a C as one of their elements in level 8, they're missing a B.

The unallowable element only "voids" that element. In the BHS BT example, the BHS still counts as one of the Bs, but the BT doesn't count for anything and therefore there is no series.

Also, while the no C acro in level 8 thing was a big change from previous seasons, and I'm sure some people don't know every intricacy of what happens if you do a C in level 8, this is going to be the second season this rule is in place so pretty much everyone has caught on if they went to a meet last year. It's not like it's a new rule and they'd be learning what happens at the first meet this year. If they've done anything, gone to congress, their state meeting, looked at their state USAG site, went to an optional meet, I'm pretty sure they know you can't do Cs in level 8 anymore.

 

[Doubledouble]

Doing a "C" acro at level 7 (except those listed on bars) will completely void the routine. Doing a "C" dance/jump/leap element will incur a 2.00 deduction. We had a girl accidentaly do a double turn on floor last season and score a 7.2 because of it. Be careful!
Doing a "C" acro at level 8 will incur a 2.00 deduction, and anything higher will void the routine. "C" dance/jump/leaps are okay but "D" dance will also incur a 2.00 deduction.

 

[gymcoach34]

I think the OP has voiced her concerns to the coaches & the gymnasts involved. Since they are not changing anything- te coach is either uptraining that the OP isnt aware of, or the coach really doesnt get it. I think now there is nothing she can do from here and she should concentrate on her own workout.

 

[LMV]

It's .5 plus no value. So if the unallowable element is fulfilling a special requirement that isn't otherwise fulfilled, that's an additional .5 off the SV, which is probably likely to happen (or they'll be missing a B).

Doing a "C" acro at level 7 (except those listed on bars) will completely void the routine. Doing a "C" dance/jump/leap element will incur a 2.00 deduction. We had a girl accidentaly do a double turn on floor last season and score a 7.2 because of it. Be careful! Doing a "C" acro at level 8 will incur a 2.00 deduction, and anything higher will void the routine. "C" dance/jump/leaps are okay but "D" dance will also incur a 2.00 deduction.

Now I think I am confused. So is it a 0.50 deduction or a 2.00 deduction?

 

[grizzoline]

pretty sure it's .5 - I've seen routines score 9.0s including that deduction. Kind of sounds like 2.00 is an old rule?

 

[BlairBob]

GymCat go to the USAG JO women's site and download and print out the new rules. Show them to your coaches. If I must, I'll email them it. More than likely a judge or coach would tell them at your first meet but that is way late in the game and embarassing.

Hopefully your coaches will go to Regional Congress and attend the clinic update. They had that update last year and it really annoyed our head coach at the gym.