Covid, large meets, and Arizona

[Eagleperson]

I think another big factor on whether large events like these meets will happen is how quickly the vaccines roll out (not being political). hospitalizations and deaths will show a significant decline once the nursing homes are fully immunized. And even steeper decline as seniors and those with cool morbidities are immunized.

I am definitely keeping my eye on that for all kinds of reasons!

 

[M2Abi]

I would go. At this point we do not have any out of state meets scheduled but I would take my daughter if it was available.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

We are planning on going to our scheduled out of state meet. I feel very similar to @Deleted member 18037, mitigation works. We have continued life with necessary precautions in place. Gym and in person school have continued safely in our area as well. With masks, temp checks, and spectator limits, and other safety precautions in place, I think meets can be done safely as well.

Everyone has different comfort levels and risks associated with the virus. Ultimately it really just comes down to what you feel comfortable with.

 

[Aussie_coach]

What is the US like with State borders? Are all the borders open, can people travel from state to state freely?

We would never risk travelling to another state at this point, not due to COVID but because Australia has been very strict and unpredictable with State borders. We have had zero cases of transmission of COVID in my state for 110 days now. If any cases appear in another State in Australia, the other states react by slamming their borders shut. You could be in another state and be told if you don’t get home by midnight you can’t return home, or if you can return you are required to stay in mandatory hotel quarantine for two weeks.

It’s Summer vacation here now as well, so people are getting stuck. So if we were faced with the opportunity to attend an interstate comp, no way would we attend.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

What is the US like with State borders? Are all the borders open, can people travel from state to state freely?

We would never risk travelling to another state at this point, not due to COVID but because Australia has been very strict and unpredictable with State borders. We have had zero cases of transmission of COVID in my state for 110 days now. If any cases appear in another State in Australia, the other states react by slamming their borders shut. You could be in another state and be told if you don’t get home by midnight you can’t return home, or if you can return you are required to stay in mandatory hotel quarantine for two weeks.

It’s Summer vacation here now as well, so people are getting stuck. So if we were faced with the opportunity to attend an interstate comp, no way would we attend.

In the US, they have not closed borders Between states. In The northeast alone you can be in multiple states in a few minutes. At the hospital where I worked in NY. I’ve had to exit in Pennsylvania where I could stop at a grocery or coffee shop. Head to work, which takes 5 mins. And get gas or stop at another grocery in New Jersey before heading home. Most of the people I worked with work in the NY hospital and live in NJ or PA. People who work in NYC, not unusual for them to come from New Jersey (just over a bridge or tunnel), Pennsylvania and Connecticut. That’s their regular commute.

We shop regularly in New Jersey and Connecticut. Both under 50 miles from where we live.

Same type of situation in Massachusetts. When I did my training at my new job there. While not a regular commute for me. Many folks I worked with live in Rhode Island or New Hampshire and commute each day to work.

It would be nearly impossible to shut down borders. We have folks able to just walk in/out from the countries that surround us. Haven’t been to border towns since COVID, but when I used to travel for work in upper New York, again folks would live/work New York vs Canada. Not unusual for college kids (my niece being one) to party in Canada and head to bed in their dorms in NY to sleep. Again, precovid.

The US is very different then Australia.

25 million people in roughly 7.7 sq km, (completely surrounded by water) vs 370 million people in 9.2 million sq km. You. have 6% of our population. California and Texas have higher populations then your whole country. New York and Florida have nearly as many people as your whole country.

it’s simply not apples to apples.

 

[profmom]

Well, it's not entirely simple. In NY, while travel to contiguous states is permitted without major restrictions, if you travel to a non-contiguous state, you have to quarantine or test out. In my area, they have upped enforcement efforts at the airport. Two of my son's former teammates who attend colleges out of state came back for the break and both quarantined and tested before coming in to join workouts.

COVID-19

coronavirus.health.ny.gov

We could engage in a lengthy digression comparing national policies, population density, and COVID rates, but that is likely to provoke conflicts. I will simply say that the CDC here advises against non-essential travel, and they are right to do so.

 

[Puff]

What is the US like with State borders? Are all the borders open, can people travel from state to state freely?

We would never risk travelling to another state at this point, not due to COVID but because Australia has been very strict and unpredictable with State borders. We have had zero cases of transmission of COVID in my state for 110 days now. If any cases appear in another State in Australia, the other states react by slamming their borders shut. You could be in another state and be told if you don’t get home by midnight you can’t return home, or if you can return you are required to stay in mandatory hotel quarantine for two weeks.

It’s Summer vacation here now as well, so people are getting stuck. So if we were faced with the opportunity to attend an interstate comp, no way would we attend.

In the U.S., everything is a divided political issue and, instead of strong leadership, we have leadership and the public pushing and shoving in opposite directions. At the ground level, everyone has a reason why they can’t be inconvenienced by all this “stay home when possible and avoid gatherings and unnecessary travel”, or masks over the mouth AND nose, or the concept of a 14-day quarantine. Our travel and gatherings are safer and more important than everyone else’s. As you can see from our numbers, we and our children at gymnastics meets are leading the world in mitigating this thing. Meanwhile a staggering number of our doctors and nurses and other responders are contracting the virus, so our hospitals are perilously short-staffed just as the emergency rooms are flooded and ambulances are being re-routed. Huge triage tents in the parking lots, freezer trucks to store the bodies, short on supplies, extra beds lined up along the hallways of the ICU floors, you do not want to end up in these hospitals right now. And who has been paying the price? Well, we’re spending trillions on it for one thing, and 350,000 dead—that’s a price, those mourning lost family members..., millions out of work or struggling to pay their bills, and families like mine with one dead and three family members who are police or work in hospitals and we are caring for grandparents in two of our homes, so the responders have been forced to live separate from the family and their own children since March and have been constantly implored to work extra thirteen-hour shifts and all holidays throughout this nightmare in order to clean up the mess. But what most of us don’t see, doesn’t affect our decisions.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The above is not the situation everywhere. And many people who have lost loved ones, dealt with sickness and having to be out, working in hospitals, including multiple family members. Understand it’s not an all or nothing thing. There are ways to mitigate things and do things safely. And there are somethings that should not be done.
It’s not an either or thing.

48 cases in our school district. 36 students are full remote. Their parents chose not to send them to school. They obviously were ok gathering elsewhere (and yes I know, FB pictures tell the story).

I have been to multiple hospitals, in multiple states....... so far so good.

I’m having a procedure next week that requires anesthesia. Been put off for far to long. I’m much more worried about my risk in that situation then I have been anywhere else I have been since this whole thing started.

Mask up properly, clean your work space, wash your hands. Limit unnecessary travel and contact. Protect those at risk...... get your vax when you can.

 

[profmom]

I think part of my concern about big travel meets is that attending them is that most gyms are making it a choice this year. I don't know if anyone's done a good study on this question, but my guess is that individuals who are willing to travel long distances for kids' sports are also less risk averse in other regards. Very unfortunately, as a nation, we have largely left risk mitigation as a matter of individual choice. While we can choose for ourselves, we can't know for sure what choices others have made, and the only assumption we can safely make is that most people have complied with the baseline legal restrictions in their localities. The individual states have different guidelines and protocols, and within some states there are huge variations.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that at a large meet, especially if there are new cleaning protocols in place, you're going to be there for a long time. If you're walking around a grocery store masked for half an hour, you're at less risk than you would be sitting six feet away from another family for four hours. During that four hours, will anyone take off their masks to have a drink or eat something? If attendance isn't strictly policed, will some families ignore the rules and bring bored younger siblings who will rove the bleachers? Maybe your team will have its own rotation. Maybe they won't. Maybe they'll be rotating with a team that isn't observing distancing and masking protocols strictly because they're not from an area with strong norms about it. What's your plan if you see that happening?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

, but my guess is that individuals who are willing to travel long distances for kids' sports are also less risk averse in other regards.

While someone maybe less risk adverse, it doesn’t mean they don’t take appropriate mitigation and prudent precautions. Less risk adversely doesn’t equal irresponsible risky behavior.

The case can be made many of those who are less risk adverse are so because they take mitigation seriously and behave accordingly.

 

[Flippin'A]

I just don't trust people these days. I see too many people who put on their masks at the grocery store to make it through the door and then take it off or pull it down under their nose as soon as they don't think anyone's looking. I hope the meet will have strong mitigation measures in place that likely would work if people followed them, but I just don't trust large groups of people to follow them. Especially if they're already a group that has self-selected to travel out of state which most likely means that they take the pandemic less seriously to begin with. I've had family get very sick, although thankfully they've all recovered. But I also had a friend in her thirties who has long Covid and has been extremely ill for months with no end in sight. Just not worth it over a gymnastics meet in my opinion.

I was actually discussing the Australia vs. US thing with a friend who grew up with me but now lives in Perth. One of the differences she pointed out was that there are far fewer roads between Australian states than we have in the US. It would be nearly impossible to police every point of entry between most US states whereas to get to her state of Western Australia there are only a few roads that have to be patrolled. In the US it would be a logistical nightmare to cut off access even without the inevitable public outcry.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that at a large meet, especially if there are new cleaning protocols in place, you're going to be there for a long time. If you're walking around a grocery store masked for half an hour, you're at less risk than you would be sitting six feet away from another family for four hours. During that four hours, will anyone take off their masks to have a drink or eat something? If attendance isn't strictly policed, will some families ignore the rules and bring bored younger siblings who will rove the bleachers? Maybe your team will have its own rotation. Maybe they won't. Maybe they'll be rotating with a team that isn't observing distancing and masking protocols strictly because they're not from an area with strong norms about it. What's your plan if you see that happening?

Again, assumptions here. Are they allowing unlimited spectators? Are they allowing eating and drinking. Are masks required, just recommend and optional.....

Much more to this it’s a large meet.

We are a less risk adverse family. AND we are thoughtful about where we go and how we do it.

If my daughter were going to do a meet. I’d be more likely to let her attend a larger one that limited spectators, had strict masking and cohort policies then a smaller one who allowed more spectators and optional masking.

I’ve been to or through 7 states with over 2 dozen nights in various hotels, various rental cars. Sounds completely irresponsible on the face.

There are many days where the only people I come anywhere near are the 1 or 2 people I work with.
I have eaten out 4 times. At carefully chosen establishments, with strict protocols in place, 2 of them outside. I usually bring my own food, my own wipes and cleaners. I can be at a hotel for almost a week and the only time I see someone is the 5 mins it takes me to check in.

I’m around more people at the local grocery store, then when I’m away for a few days.

Taking my first flight this week. I have my fitted N95, for the airport and flight, it will not come off from the minute I head into the airport and I’m exited at my destination. So we will see how that goes. Not a chance I’ll be eating on a plane or at the airport. So we’ll see how that goes.

Again travel, doesn’t equate to irresponsible, reckless, thoughtless or selfish.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I just don't trust people these days. I see too many people who put on their masks at the grocery store to make it through the door and then take it off or pull it down under their nose as soon as they don't think anyone's looking.

This makes me crazy. And it’s every where. Including hospitals. Healthcare workers who should know better, will walk down hallways masks down, until they see someone coming.

And you can bet if they get COVID they will swear they never take their mask off.

My daughter and I went to the mall at Christmas. When we stopped to eat, we purchased our food. Walked right past the food court where everyone was unmasked, with our masks on, out to the car. We ate in the car. And finished our shopping fully masked. Far too many exposed noses to even think of taking ours off.

 

[Gigi]

Meets we know of allow 25% capacity or no viewer at all. Compulsory meets held at clubs may be different but optionals are usually held at arenas or convention centers so you will be much more than 6 feet away from any other families.

I feel much more uncomfortable at stores. I went to Costco for the first time, sure people are there for only an hour but there were so many people touching everything and in line so close to you. At a meet, I feel isolated. Kind of sad actually. Equipment are sanitized, coaches and kids wear masks and sanitize hands.

Another comment mentioned states leaving it up to individuals to mitigate risks. Where we are actually we have stay at home orders and no gathering with others at your own property. You can be cited and fined but not sure if they actually enforce it.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It is really interesting to read about the different approaches taken in different places and different peoples reactions.

Many mention that there are many variables when it comes to a meet such as will they mandate masks, social distancing, keeping groups in their own gym bubbles, sanitising etc. Many mention the difficulty in making their decision about the meet would come down to the way these things are dealt with.

Here in gyms or any place that wants to hold an event would have no choice but to follow the government regulations. The government will require everyone who enters to electronically leave their contact details, and if a case was found among anyone who attends, everyone else would be required to quarantine, which I guess would be absurd in the US with so many cases. They have to follow rules about all those other aspects or the police will shut it down. People will call the police a d they will come and check it out and shut it down.

Every business has the same rules and has to follow a certain set of procedures based on the type of business or they face massive fines. Again it sounds awful but isn’t that bad, we are in a State without COVID, and no cases for a very long time so the rules are not that strict.

Does the government enforce any type of requirements for these big meets, or for meets in general? Would it depend on your State/county?

 

[profmom]

Part of being risk averse is taking precautions. I am fairly but not extremely risk averse. I keep my mask on in stores and wash up thoroughly after shopping. I don't mask when I run in the park, but I have also chosen not to go to the local gym for aerobic workouts. I don't have any compelling reason to fly, so I'm not planning on flying until I've received both doses of the vaccine and vaccination is widespread. If you take precautions, it's because you are more risk averse than the many who don't.

I'm just puzzled by the idea that the very same people who aren't wearing masks in Costco are suddenly going to be wearing them like little lambs while sitting in the bleachers at a gymnastics meet. Further, think a little bit about enforcement. Who's letting people into these meets? Who's monitoring for mask compliance and enforcing limits on numbers of spectators? For a lot of meets, that's going to be Cindy the mom of the new Level 3, who got stuck with taking entrance fees because it's her first meet and she didn't know you should always sign up for beam timing. If Bob and Angela show up with their L8 and her two little brothers, is Cindy going to hold the line and tell Bob he can wait out in the car while the meet is going on? All we need to complete this scenario is the reminder that one of the L8's brothers is on a travel soccer team that played in a big tournament in a different state last weekend. Policy is one piece here, but implementation is critically important.

I can control my behavior but not that of other people. I've been around this sport long enough to know there's a decent chance that in any session with more than 50 kids competing, there's going to be one there who woke up not feeling so hot but with so few meets this season, wouldn't it be a shame if they had to miss it so let's pump them up with ibuprofen and get going. Temp checks won't solve that problem. I also remember VERY well the meet a few years back which the state police had to come in and shut them down because the entire state was in a declared emergency due to a massive snowstorm. I have very little confidence that that host gym is going to be rigorously enforcing all state regulations this year either.

People can and will make their own decisions, but I think we should be making them with full consciousness. As for us, we will see what the protocols are for individual meets and make decisions on that basis. Thankfully, we don't have to make any difficult decisions about travel meets this year. But for everyone with a child in this sport, no matter how much risk we are willing to assume, a lot of it comes down to how much we trust the meet organizers. I'd trust our gym to run a meet safely, but there are gyms in our region I wouldn't trust, based on what I've seen with them over the years. I want to emphasize for everyone though that I fully acknowledge that these decisions are difficult!

Aussie_Coach, your question is an excellent one. Both regulations and enforcement are up to state and local authorities. The way things are handled in my county is night and day in comparison to what's happening across the county line a mile from my house. I am grateful to be in my county and not that one.

 

[Eagleperson]

What is the US like with State borders? Are all the borders open, can people travel from state to state freely?

We would never risk travelling to another state at this point, not due to COVID but because Australia has been very strict and unpredictable with State borders. We have had zero cases of transmission of COVID in my state for 110 days now. If any cases appear in another State in Australia, the other states react by slamming their borders shut. You could be in another state and be told if you don’t get home by midnight you can’t return home, or if you can return you are required to stay in mandatory hotel quarantine for two weeks.

It’s Summer vacation here now as well, so people are getting stuck. So if we were faced with the opportunity to attend an interstate comp, no way would we attend.

The US response has been nothing like the Australian response. Covid 19 is raging here.

 

[Eagleperson]

I think part of my concern about big travel meets is that attending them is that most gyms are making it a choice this year. I don't know if anyone's done a good study on this question, but my guess is that individuals who are willing to travel long distances for kids' sports are also less risk averse in other regards. Very unfortunately, as a nation, we have largely left risk mitigation as a matter of individual choice. While we can choose for ourselves, we can't know for sure what choices others have made, and the only assumption we can safely make is that most people have complied with the baseline legal restrictions in their localities. The individual states have different guidelines and protocols, and within some states there are huge variations.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that at a large meet, especially if there are new cleaning protocols in place, you're going to be there for a long time. If you're walking around a grocery store masked for half an hour, you're at less risk than you would be sitting six feet away from another family for four hours. During that four hours, will anyone take off their masks to have a drink or eat something? If attendance isn't strictly policed, will some families ignore the rules and bring bored younger siblings who will rove the bleachers? Maybe your team will have its own rotation. Maybe they won't. Maybe they'll be rotating with a team that isn't observing distancing and masking protocols strictly because they're not from an area with strong norms about it. What's your plan if you see that happening?

If I was to bring my daughter to a big meet in the spring I would most likely not be a spectator but would drop her off.

 

[Aussie_coach]

The US response has been nothing like the Australian response. Covid 19 is raging here.

What we are doing would never work in the US. As others have pointed out, you just can’t isolate the US and keep all the international travellers out.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Would it depend on your State/county?

Yes this