Parents DD BWO block and MY Frustration!

[jenjean70]

^^^^^^ This times a million.

She isn't doing a skill because she can't. There are many reasons why that might be the case - here are a few things to read so hopefully you can understand it better:

http://completeperformancecoaching.com/2017/01/01/mental-blocks/

Link Removed
This second link explains a lot about the need for everyone to back off, and for the gymnast to do the skill where she is comfortable (like floor beam with stacked mats, or a line on the floor - doesn't matter). I actually called Dr Goldberg as my DD was REALLY REALLY stuck and just talking to him made me feel better. He is NOT a hard-selling guy, though he does sell materials. Two other moms I know have talked to him on the phone - complimentary "what do you think?" calls - he is very very helpful.

Good luck!! And listen to all the smart folks posting here - we have been through this!!!!

He called us to see how my son was doing- amazing guy- amazing program!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Repeating Level 4 would not happen in our gym if a gymmie scored out of Level 5.
If it continues and would keep her from Level 6, it might be time to talk with the coach and ask if they'd allow a substitute skill for Level 6.

Actually I thought this was about her being unable to do 5 because of the BWO block. L6 would allow the BWO to be bypassed with a CW.

But that is really about what the gym does.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Actually I thought this was about her being unable to do 5 because of the BWO block. L6 would allow the BWO to be bypassed with a CW.

But that is really about what the gym does.

According to a post from OP last month, her DD scored out of level 5 in march.

But yes, this thread is actually about not knowing how to handle the block. I was just throwing it out there that if it lasts enough that maybe it would be good to confirm what the gym would allow for 6.

 

[gymbeam]

According to a post from OP last month, her DD scored out of level 5 in march.

But yes, this thread is actually about not knowing how to handle the block. I was just throwing it out there that if it lasts enough that maybe it would be good to confirm what the gym would allow for 6.

just a side note: if it was a level 5 mobility meet before the state's declaration date, then she can still call herself a level 4 if she so needs to.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

just a side note: if it was a level 5 mobility meet before the state's declaration date, then she can still call herself a level 4 if she so needs to.

That's true. But if she scored out of 5 she can do 6 without the BWO.

We have had a couple of our 6s with BWO blocks this season. Yep they had them and now they don't. CW for them and no drama about it.

Blocks happen.... The idea is to not torture them about it, as it will mostly torture them out of the sport.....

 

[Ali'sMom]

just a side note: if it was a level 5 mobility meet before the state's declaration date, then she can still call herself a level 4 if she so needs to.

That's true. But if she scored out of 5 she can do 6 without the BWO.
We have had a couple of our 6s with BWO blocks this season. Yep they had them and now they don't. CW for them and no drama about it.
Blocks happen.... The idea is to not torture them about it, as it will mostly torture them out of the sport.....

Both options would need to be discussed with coach to see what their gym would do. Our gym would move the gymmie to 6 and take out the BWO.
Some gyms will not do 6 without a BWO, so no L6, but also not move back to L4 if they scored out already.
Basically I'm hoping that this gym has an option that will work best for the gymmie.

 

[profmom]

Another possibility is just scratching beam and continuing to work patiently in the gym.

 

[duyetanh]

Another possibility is just scratching beam and continuing to work patiently in the gym.

I donf think her dds gym will let her do that, hence the problem.

 

[CCGymbug]

I haven't had the time yet to read all of your replies but I promise I will. What is vestibular block mean?
I am an ICU nurse and when I wrote the post I had just worked 40H in 3 days all on night shift and slept 3 Hrs. It was the 1st time I stepped into the gym in weeks.
I need everyone to hear me on this part. My DD has significant ADHD. A trait is to avoid things they do like to do. She has never liked beam.
I did not mean stand on the beam in attempt to do bwo. But just practice in general, any of the rest of it. Even skipping bwo. She was on the low beam practicing her bwo, she would do one, look and see if coaches were watching her and sit down and zone out. She also spends alot of time talking and playing around or "assisting" her friend with her stuff on beam. This has been my source of frustration. She just does not enjoy beam and for the 1st time I am not sure if she has a block or just doesn't care to practice beam so she is doing just enough to get by.
This is a kid who fell on her head last week coming out of a tuck and was back at floor next practice doing them like it never happened.
I know her meds are not working as well but I am not sure what to do (her inattention and hyperactivity have come back and I see it at school and at home). Hence the fall last week. My frustration has been more of figuring out if she has a true block or if it is more ADHD related and needs more help or needs to work on her focus and drive for things she does not like. She was supposed to be working on the beam not sitting per her coach. My assumption is her coaches must feel its behavior related as they told her to practice at home. She does it fine on the floor with the line.
I wish I understood what is happening better. I can ignore a block but I can not ignore a behavior. My frustration is not understanding which it is.

 

[CCGymbug]

You seem to have bigger issues with gym. I understand the family and financial commitment. I'm 5 years in and still question this from time to time. Mostly I dream of what else I'd be doing with the $10-$12K/year that I spend on gym. It's fun for me to fantasize about a trip to Hawaii or remodeling the house. Maybe the closer/less expensive gym really is a better option for your family & lifestyle. What attracted you to the further one in the first place? I'm assuming it's a combination of their reputation, ability to coach higher levels, ability to produce college gymnasts, etc. Sounds like you got held up on a name and a dream for your kid but now that the dream may not be going according to YOUR plan, you are having second thoughts.

You have gotten consistent and good advice about blocks from those who have BTDT. Blocks are so hard to understand. What you see as inattention and avoidance is really a symptom of that block and part of the process for your athlete to work through it. Blocks are a normal part of gymnastics but they do seem to affect some gymnasts more than others. Hard to tell if your gymmie is one of those. You say the coaches are frustrated too and have given her homework assignments? What's up with that? Are you at some sort of intense, highly successful gym? This right there would be a red flag for me and would have me questioning whether the gym has what it takes to help the more fearful ones through the levels. The only homework assignments should be for some conditioning specific to your DD (mine for example has gotten 'homework' for ankle stuff before). In your first post you say that one cannot continue to progress when lacking on an event. Yes and no. Not sure if you are channeling your gym's philosophy or what but there is so much wiggle room there. And the kid will progress through a block with the proper treatment by both coaches and parents.

I just watched my DD go through her entire L8 season competing FHS vault. She had her yurchenko last November, but it wasn't consistent enough for the coaches to allow her (and her teammates) to compete it until January. Well she just lost it the beginning of the year. It left the station. Gone. Struggles with timers now. Am I frustrated? YES! Indeed. Although my DD still had a successful season, her AA score is capped by vault. She still places in AA, but it's keeping her off the podium. Oddly enough, vault is probably her strongest event. Were her coaches frustrated? YES! They know she is physically capable. They know it's a strong event for her. Her coach told me recently she has the best yurchenko in the entire gym BUT she will show it on her terms when she is ready. It is what it is. If her coaches push too much, she regresses. They know this about her. Never once have they lost faith in her. They have never given up. They allow her to progress on her terms. No punishments by them. No strings by me. I honestly can't imagine taking gym away from her because of a perception of avoidance. I also know that DD would not be welcome in some programs because of all her fears. I'm so thankful that she is where she is.

I believe you are sincere in wanting what is best for your DD and I know it is so hard to see your kid struggle with blocks. Just be careful of misplacing your frustration with your gym situation on your DD's fears. Separate issues. Maybe you all would be better served by a gym change. Maybe not. Just another opinion from an online poster.

Oh - ETA - Don't watch practice. Ever. #1 mantra of parenting through a block. Trust me on this one.

My gym IS NOT a big name gym. The kids score ok but no powerhouse by far. We changed gyms after a constant year of watching my DD not progress. She would skip stations and when I asked her why she said she did not know what to do. I said why didn't you ask and they she said they yelled at her. So I moved her to a gym 15 mins from home. That gym was bought out and closed by current gym so our choice was to go back to 1st gym, another which is 5 mins away but is filthy so I refused to consider or make the drive to gym current gym. She immediately found success with 1st gym change because the coaches paid attention and would make sure she could practice skills. She made progress, loved her coaches and wanted to stay with that gym. Honestly, I have often wondered if she would score higher at a powerhouse because they would drill in all the little stuff. Or just get frustrated and quit from boredom.
My son has special needs so we have MD and OT appts for him etc. I only agreed to the commute if she was working her hardest and doing her best as the gym had taken over our lives .
My assumption is the coaches who have known my DD over 3 years now feel some of it is behavior related or they would not tell her to be doing stuff at home.

 

[CCGymbug]

The job comparison was something that jumped out at me as well. Apples and oranges trying to compare an adult in a job having the benefit of significantly greater experience, education, and maturity behind them versus a child trying to work through a difficult skill.

This is where kids develop life long skills. Learning to sometimes do things they don't necessarily enjoy for the complete package. Often it is discussed how gymnasts develop lifelong skills that are positive. There are parts of our everyday lives that none of us want to do. But if we do not make the effort to do x we won't be able to do y. I see this as much of a learning opportunity towards the goal of being a hard working adult.

 

[suebee]

I have a child (my non-gymnast) with some special needs. He does not have ADHD, but has many of the similar traits to a kid with ADHD. He also got a lot of therapies when he was younger, so I hear what you're saying about your younger child, and I know how much of a toll all of those appointments take on a working parent and a parent with other children.

Even though ADHD is very common, many coaches and teachers don't really "get" ADHD, what the challenges are, and how to best help those kids. I would say that your dd cannot control any ADHD-ish behavior any more than she can a block. It's not like she can will herself to focus more (if that's the issue) or will herself to get over a block (if that's the issue).

If her meds are an issue, definitely try to get those straightened out. As kids grow, the meds often need to have their dosages adjusted or changed.

My non-gymnast child has *never* responded well to people who think he is just having a "behavior," and in fact, responds worse to people who try to threaten or punish the behavior out of him. After reading this thread, I feel very much that his behavior is much like a block. The behavior is the result of his inability to deal with some demand, just like a block is a kid's inability to do whatever skill that is being asked of them to do. We've learned over the years how to support my non-gymnast child and also how to teach others how to support him, and luckily, as he has gotten older, his skills have improved, so he doesn't need as much support now as he did before.

If the coaches are seeing this as a "behavior" but it is really an ADHD issue, their tactics may not work. My non-gymnast has often needed extra attention to keep on track with the task at hand. From what you've written, maybe your dd would benefit from that if this is an ADHD issue. If that is the case, maybe a private with a supportive, patient coach would help, so she could get 1:1 attention. But if you choose that route, I would advise you talk to the coaches beforehand. Adults can get frustrated when they feel like kids can do something but they're choosing not to. But they may not understand that they kid really may not be able to do it. Your dd may not really able to focus, even though she has before, because maybe she needs her meds adjusted.

 

[profmom]

I think if you read all the replies, you will understand better. As for the coaches, some coaches are better and worse at dealing with this sort of issue. I see it as a red flag if they are asking her to work on a blocked skill at home. It shows a lack of understanding of the issue unless she is talking about it in terms that suggest it's not a vestibular block. The hallmark I've seen is when the child will say s/he wants to do the skill but "for some reason" can't. Their mantra is "I can't go on it."

While I agree that making sure the meds are right is very important, I would expect that if this were exclusively an ADHD issue, it would be showing up in more than one place in her gym practices. From what you have described, it's focused not just on one event, but on one particular skill. I'd recommend working with the beam coach to hold her accountable for doing drills where she can have success, though not to the point where she's risking back fractures. So, e.g., if the day's drill for everyone in the group is to stick 5 BWO on three different beams, she should do them where she can do them successfully and maybe try a few at a height/in a situation that's more iffy. The ADHD management comes in at the point of ensuring that she identifies the place where she can be successful and then ensuring that she does the assignment. This removes much of the the stress and emotional charge from it.

One other thing that probably hasn't been emphasized enough is that excessive work on BWOs increases risk of back problems, including back fractures. This is another good reason not to bring this problem home with you.

I encourage you strongly to disinvest personally in your child's success or lack thereof with any gymnastics skill. She's learning the life lessons of the sport from participating in the sport, and there are many other skills that provide her with the opportunity to persist and work and endure until she experiences success. If she is frustrated, the problem skill is probably already consuming way more of her head space and emotional energy than is necessarily healthy or good, and your emphasis on it exacerbates this. Many of us who've been through this with a child and have posted here understand this through experience, and would do things very differently if given the chance for a do over. And many of us have seen other parents drive their kids out of gymnastics over backwards beam issues, with the kids winding up their "careers" feeling like failures and disappointments. Is that the life lesson you want your daughter to learn?

 

[z2akids]

Whether this is a block or and ADHD issue, it isn't her fault and you cannot fix it by forcing her to work on the skill at home. I would definitely look into adjusting her meds if they might need to be. Try to keep in mind that either way she has an injury or an illness. She isn't willfully doing anything that can be fixed by adding pressure.

As another poster said, be careful of working BWOs at home. My DD was treated last summer due to a back injury sustained from too many BWOs. They are a very common precipitating factor in serious back injuries.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

?.... with the kids winding up their "careers" feeling like failures and disappointments. Is that the life lesson you want your daughter to learn?

This.....

ADHD/block, both are mental injuries.

Both can be managed.

But punishment is not how.

 

[NutterButter]

I wish I understood what is happening better. I can ignore a block but I can not ignore a behavior. My frustration is not understanding which it is.

My gym IS NOT a big name gym. The kids score ok but no powerhouse by far. We changed gyms after a constant year of watching my DD not progress. She would skip stations and when I asked her why she said she did not know what to do. I said why didn't you ask and they she said they yelled at her. So I moved her to a gym 15 mins from home. That gym was bought out and closed by current gym so our choice was to go back to 1st gym, another which is 5 mins away but is filthy so I refused to consider or make the drive to gym current gym. She immediately found success with 1st gym change because the coaches paid attention and would make sure she could practice skills. She made progress, loved her coaches and wanted to stay with that gym. Honestly, I have often wondered if she would score higher at a powerhouse because they would drill in all the little stuff. Or just get frustrated and quit from boredom. My son has special needs so we have MD and OT appts for him etc. I only agreed to the commute if she was working her hardest and doing her best as the gym had taken over our lives . My assumption is the coaches who have known my DD over 3 years now feel some of it is behavior related or they would not tell her to be doing stuff at home.

I had some wrong assumptions on your gym situation and I'm sorry for assuming that (I'm thinking of that saying about ASSuming right now ). I also didn't know the extent of your DD's ADHD. It sheds more light on your situation. Could it be both a block and her ADHD? What you describe about the beam really sounds like classic block behavior. You've had about a dozen parents here describe the same thing with their blocked kids and what it looks like. I'm sure the ADHD is an extra layer on top on this and is likely creating extra frustration for your DD to cope. Often the first time a kid has a block is the worst because they don't yet have the coping skills (and ditto for parents and sadly, coaches too).

What I really don't understand is when you say you can't ignore a behavior. And if it is behavior then that is a reason to pull some of the strings you've attached to her doing the sport. But if she has ADHD and her meds need tweaking, then how is that her fault? You even say you are seeing it in other areas of her life. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but that seems so unfair to your DD. So does her homework the gym assigns her. I love what @profmom says about forming a plan with the coach so that she can regain some control and hopefully get on the path of enjoying success again.

 

[Ali'sMom]

And many of us have seen other parents drive their kids out of gymnastics over backwards beam issues, with the kids winding up their "careers" feeling like failures and disappointments. Is that the life lesson you want your daughter to learn?

Our gym refused to let DD quit over the BWO. Hence, the CW.
DD had a great couple of seasons with it. Other blocks have ensued, and have been conquered (fear of going over the high bar, fear of going over the vault tabe ) and she just finished her season as an alternate to regionals.
She planned on quitting at the end of April (after the possible Regionals), but the fears/blocks have come back since States.
She feels like a failure right now. Last Thursday until Saturday morning all she did was cry. She wanted to quit, but wanted to last to the end of the month, but felt like such a failure. (oh, and she also was state bars champion after being afraid for a full week to even try a handstand).
Failure????
So we went in Saturday morning to quit cold turkey, she just couldn't take it anymore. She decided to quit, and just accept that it didn't end well (she's 14).
It broke my heart. But in her words "The idea of failing for 3 more weeks just hurts".
Talking with HC, we took alternate off the table completely, and now she can try some fun skills until the end of the month, and ENJOY herself.
I owe the last 4 nights of NO TEARS all to this coach who said "Let's make it fun for you". DD no longer feels like a failure. And she's smiling. I don't even know what she's working on, other than jumping straight up on the spring board because she can't make herself go over (I told her to just work on that jump! make that jump look so pretty! - yes, humor!).

Having a kid end because of this is sad.
Making a kid end because of this should be the last option.

I am forever grateful that we were able to work something out, and my daughter will end knowing she was State Bars Champ, and came "this close" to Regionals. Not remembering "I can't do my handstand. I can't go over the vault table. Oh, and I freaked out about my front tuck off beam so I can't do that anymore either".
Her life lesson? That there are indeed people in her corner, and that she did indeed give it her all and end on a proud note.
My hope is that she remembers this pride as she encounters bumps along the rest of her path.

 

[CCGymbug]

I had some wrong assumptions on your gym situation and I'm sorry for assuming that (I'm thinking of that saying about ASSuming right now ). I also didn't know the extent of your DD's ADHD. It sheds more light on your situation. Could it be both a block and her ADHD? What you describe about the beam really sounds like classic block behavior. You've had about a dozen parents here describe the same thing with their blocked kids and what it looks like. I'm sure the ADHD is an extra layer on top on this and is likely creating extra frustration for your DD to cope. Often the first time a kid has a block is the worst because they don't yet have the coping skills (and ditto for parents and sadly, coaches too).

What I really don't understand is when you say you can't ignore a behavior. And if it is behavior then that is a reason to pull some of the strings you've attached to her doing the sport. But if she has ADHD and her meds need tweaking, then how is that her fault? You even say you are seeing it in other areas of her life. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but that seems so unfair to your DD. So does her homework the gym assigns her. I love what @profmom says about forming a plan with the coach so that she can regain some control and hopefully get on the path of enjoying success again.

So she attempts BWO even on high beam she just falls. She can do it on low beam.
We added an afternoon med dose and I am not sure if its helping or not. Some days it seems like it helps, others days it helps calm her but that is about it.
Yes I am aware that ADHD is a mental issue but behaviors go with it. ADHD people have the ability to hyper focus on something they are really interested in. The annoying part is that they also ignore and refuse to do tasks they do not like. Until this year I never saw my DD behavior at beam (since changing gyms). Part of her learning to cope with life tasks that are not to her liking is to still do them. I just do not like that she is showing signs that she isn't committed because she doesn't like beam. I understand the mental challenge of it but attempting to embrace what you do not like is part of her treatment plan. My problem as her mom is understanding how much is a block and how much is she just does not like it so she does bare minimum. I would think with a block she would not be attempting it.
I hear each and every message very clear. To back off and let her succeed or fail on her own so she continues to love it. Its just so hard, when I ignored my intuition years ago, she wasted a valuable early year unable to accomplish any new skills.
When I was young, my mom never spoke to me about my activities. I ended up eventually lost and quit because I did not feel I was as good as others. I just did not want to see that happen to her. This is a child who has not had a friend over in a year because she refuses to clean room. I do not fight with her over it but she is very stubborn.
I love the sport as it keeps her mind and body busy and engaged and hate it all the same time because it is soooo time sensitive. ADHD kids tend to blossom later and I just hope she does not give up and quit. I still am not 100% sure if its because she just doesn't like beam or if there is a block but I heard everyone of you tell me I am CGM and that is not a title I ever want. I have not spoken of beam since my original post. I did not even send her to extra team clinic practice on Tues. Instead we went to zoo. She spent her entire day climbing things and doing handstands. Thank you for all your support especially those who talked of multiple blocks and frustration and working though it. It meant so much!

I think if you read all the replies, you will understand better. As for the coaches, some coaches are better and worse at dealing with this sort of issue. I see it as a red flag if they are asking her to work on a blocked skill at home. It shows a lack of understanding of the issue unless she is talking about it in terms that suggest it's not a vestibular block. The hallmark I've seen is when the child will say s/he wants to do the skill but "for some reason" can't. Their mantra is "I can't go on it."

While I agree that making sure the meds are right is very important, I would expect that if this were exclusively an ADHD issue, it would be showing up in more than one place in her gym practices. From what you have described, it's focused not just on one event, but on one particular skill. I'd recommend working with the beam coach to hold her accountable for doing drills where she can have success, though not to the point where she's risking back fractures. So, e.g., if the day's drill for everyone in the group is to stick 5 BWO on three different beams, she should do them where she can do them successfully and maybe try a few at a height/in a situation that's more iffy. The ADHD management comes in at the point of ensuring that she identifies the place where she can be successful and then ensuring that she does the assignment. This removes much of the the stress and emotional charge from it.

One other thing that probably hasn't been emphasized enough is that excessive work on BWOs increases risk of back problems, including back fractures. This is another good reason not to bring this problem home with you.

I encourage you strongly to disinvest personally in your child's success or lack thereof with any gymnastics skill. She's learning the life lessons of the sport from participating in the sport, and there are many other skills that provide her with the opportunity to persist and work and endure until she experiences success. If she is frustrated, the problem skill is probably already consuming way more of her head space and emotional energy than is necessarily healthy or good, and your emphasis on it exacerbates this. Many of us who've been through this with a child and have posted here understand this through experience, and would do things very differently if given the chance for a do over. And many of us have seen other parents drive their kids out of gymnastics over backwards beam issues, with the kids winding up their "careers" feeling like failures and disappointments. Is that the life lesson you want your daughter to learn?

 

[gymbeam]

Not understanding ADHD well, I'm reluctant to make judgements, buuuut "Doesn't like beam" and block actually seem like the same thing to me.

 

[profmom]

That is actually really great news that she will attempt it on the high beam, even if she won't go consistently. I hope her experience with this issue will be a short one!

Regardless, we're here for any needed venting and support on your side! Hang in there, momma.