WAG Did coach roll her eyes when I walked away?

[Orangesoda]

Yeah, I agree. OrangeSoda, I can't quite pick up on your tone and so I'm hesitant to respond. I can't tell if you are kind of slapping back at anyone who is responding in a way you disagree with or if you are truly thanking people for alternative perspective.

I think I'm going to lurk for a bit until I get a better handle on the tone of this thread. I'm trying to avoid "those" threads.

No backlash here. I didn't ask the question just to hear what I wanted to hear. I appreciate all the comments, including those that are not necessarily what I want to hear!

Taken as a whole it sounds like I need to relax - not surprising to me since I tend to be a busybody both physically and mentally. Ha. It was difficult for me to watch my child do something I perceived as "wrong" repeatedly and have it overlooked, but it seems that switching legs isn't even necessarily wrong at this age, and even if it was wrong, I shouldn't be so hyper focused on it. I can handle that.

I'm still unsure what to do with the bridge and kickover cautions. I'd be VERY intimidated at the thought of saying anything to anyone about them. Is it possible that since dd's in with a select group of girls, the coaches know of the risks and have deemed her strong enough to do them without risk of injury? I guess I don't want to believe they're dangerous because then I have to take action! Mentioning a leg switch is one thing, but questioning a teaching repetoire is quite another!!

 

[flipflopsalto]

I think if you see something that you think could be wrong, then maybe ask the coach "I know nothing about gymnastics, but is it a problem she is cartwheeling with one leg and kicking over with another". That way it comes across as if you are asking a question, not questioning their coaching. When I was coaching I appreciated parents with questions

 

[LJL07]

No backlash here. I didn't ask the question just to hear what I wanted to hear. I appreciate all the comments, including those that are not necessarily what I want to hear!

Taken as a whole it sounds like I need to relax - not surprising to me since I tend to be a busybody both physically and mentally. Ha. It was difficult for me to watch my child do something I perceived as "wrong" repeatedly and have it overlooked, but it seems that switching legs isn't even necessarily wrong at this age, and even if it was wrong, I shouldn't be so hyper focused on it. I can handle that.

I'm still unsure what to do with the bridge and kickover cautions. I'd be VERY intimidated at the thought of saying anything to anyone about them. Is it possible that since dd's in with a select group of girls, the coaches know of the risks and have deemed her strong enough to do them without risk of injury? I guess I don't want to believe they're dangerous because then I have to take action! Mentioning a leg switch is one thing, but questioning a teaching repetoire is quite another!!

My opinion might not be popular, but how much time are they really spending doing bridge kick overs? If she's physically strong and almost 5, I wouldn't say anything. One thing you can do is make sure she isn't practicing them at home. Try not to worry! I'm a huge worrier so I completely sympathize!!

 

[Gymsanity]

The reality is that there are some 14 year olds that shouldn't be doing bridges, and there are some 4 year olds that should (with their feet on a raised surface, of course). USAG picked the age of 5 as the age they believe children should be introduced to bridges. I guess you have to pick something, but does that mean that at 4 years and 364 days old you aren't ready, but when you go to bed that night and the magic 'bridge fairy' comes and visits you and transforms your shoulders and lower back, you wake up in the morning and are ready to do bridges!?
As for the coaching part, with children that young, I find too many coaches trying to decide their direction way too early. I want to let them explore which leg in front, which to kick over with, which way their hands go in a cartwheel, jump turns, swivel hips, etc. It's fun, and there is a much better chance of you figuring out their true direction. If I get one more parent coming out and telling me 'excuse me, did you know Suzy writes with her left hand?' I think I'll faint!

 

[IreneKa]

DD was almost 5 when she started gymnastics. She loved doing bridges and kick-overs, did them all the time at home. Now she is 9, and has been recently diagnosed with back stress fracture. I don't know if it's related or not, but I wish I knew sooner of the danger of those skills.
She was also in a very reputable gym, one of the best in the area, always winning, lots of optionals, many go to regionals\nationals, the owner is a former Olympian. So, I had no reasons not to trust them.

 

[lovemygymnast]

DD was almost 5 when she started gymnastics. She loved doing bridges and kick-overs, did them all the time at home. Now she is 9, and has been recently diagnosed with back stress fracture. I don't know if it's related or not, but I wish I knew sooner of the danger of those skills.
She was also in a very reputable gym, one of the best in the area, always winning, lots of optionals, many go to regionals\nationals, the owner is a former Olympian. So, I had no reasons not to trust them.

This is so scary to me! I mean, we go to gyms and pay for their expertise with our kids. We try not to question and to trust their judgement but this had never, ever been mentioned to me. So, now I guess I wait for years to pass to see if it's a problem. Is there a list some where of skills and ages? I know there are age correlations with levels but are there other skills that shouldn't be done at these young ages?

 

[sce]

It's fun, and there is a much better chance of you figuring out their true direction. If I get one more parent coming out and telling me 'excuse me, did you know Suzy writes with her left hand?' I think I'll faint!

I let my dd figure it out. She writes with her right hand, but does sports with her left.

I did notice she had switched a bar skill to her right leg. i noticed when I saw her struggling with it and she formerly could do it. She was 9yo at the time. I casually mentioned it to her. So she tried both the next practice and decided to go back to doing it with her left. All her choice. I think she was happy to solve the problem of with the skill.

She takes Jazz dance now too. One of the biggest challenges is that they want her to use both legs for things like leaps. She so used to using just her left. I think it's good for balancing out her strength etc.

 

[NewtoGym]

Just remember it's not where they are or how good they are at 4 or 5. What matters is the end game. Think big picture and try not to stress the daily minutia.

 

[gymdog]

DD was almost 5 when she started gymnastics. She loved doing bridges and kick-overs, did them all the time at home. Now she is 9, and has been recently diagnosed with back stress fracture. I don't know if it's related or not, but I wish I knew sooner of the danger of those skills.
She was also in a very reputable gym, one of the best in the area, always winning, lots of optionals, many go to regionals\nationals, the owner is a former Olympian. So, I had no reasons not to trust them.

The biggest problem is core strength and stability, and their body type (whether they tend to hinge from the low back and lack movement in their thoracic spine). But I tend to avoid practicing any kind of bridge skills more than 3-5 times per practice. So if we're doing tick tocks on beam, we do just shoulder stretches on warmup. If we did back walkovers on floor (3) we don't do them on beam.

So personally I would be okay with what was described IF their core is stable and they have the right body type, although I tend to avoid it. You have to teach kick overs and walkovers to some extent though. It's an important part of developmental gymnastics for beam and floor.

 

[Gymsanity]

This is so scary to me! I mean, we go to gyms and pay for their expertise with our kids. We try not to question and to trust their judgement but this had never, ever been mentioned to me. So, now I guess I wait for years to pass to see if it's a problem. Is there a list some where of skills and ages? I know there are age correlations with levels but are there other skills that shouldn't be done at these young ages?

It's far more important, how it's done, rather than what or when it is done. Sadly, the majority of kids I see coming from other gyms (yes, that includes some of the elite gyms, and gyms with former Olympians) have techniques that promotes those sorts of injuries and worse. I don't know what I would do if I were a parent on the outside looking in. How could you possibly know who is good, who is safe? Even their track record of winning means nothing. I worked at a large elite/national gym and from the outside all looked great, and they had the kids to prove it. The part most people overlooked was how many kids were ruined in the process.......

 

[gymjunkie]

Funny, at that age I do everything I can to prevent them from having a dominant side. I have them continue to do the same amount of left cartwheels as right cartwheels all the way up thru compulsories. By the time they get to compulsories/optionals, they can do everything on all sides in their basic tumbling and dance complexes. Same for kick overs (eventually walkovers). Why are they trying to establish a dominant side so young?!

I don't like having preschoolers do any type of kicking over. The first gym I ever worked at (in the 80s) shared a study with us that showed that kids who did such early back bend work were at increased risk for all of the various forms of "spondy" conditions. We simply skipped the back bend work and instead substituted BHS work until they were 6 to be safe. There were certain forms of bridge work that was considered okay, but back bends and kickovers were delayed. This was also an elite gym, early into the TOPS program way back when. I've carried this philosophy with me since then.

As for the eye rolling, does your gym offer parent meetings where the game plan is discussed every so often? I try to meet with the newbies every 6 months as a group to explain in advance what they should expect for the next 6 months. It's a great time for them to ask questions such as the one you asked without feeling that they are questioning my coaching.

 

[truth-seeker]

She's 4. And I'm sure the coach knows what she's doing

What was the problem anyway? If you cartwheel on your right leg your left leg kicks over…Do you have a coaching background?

Leave the gymnastics in the gym, you don't need to worry about anything unless the coach asks for your input.

There is always more to learn.

No backlash here. I didn't ask the question just to hear what I wanted to hear. I appreciate all the comments, including those that are not necessarily what I want to hear!

Taken as a whole it sounds like I need to relax - not surprising to me since I tend to be a busybody both physically and mentally. Ha. It was difficult for me to watch my child do something I perceived as "wrong" repeatedly and have it overlooked, but it seems that switching legs isn't even necessarily wrong at this age, and even if it was wrong, I shouldn't be so hyper focused on it. I can handle that.

I'm still unsure what to do with the bridge and kickover cautions. I'd be VERY intimidated at the thought of saying anything to anyone about them. Is it possible that since dd's in with a select group of girls, the coaches know of the risks and have deemed her strong enough to do them without risk of injury? I guess I don't want to believe they're dangerous because then I have to take action! Mentioning a leg switch is one thing, but questioning a teaching repetoire is quite another!!

Ideally, an informed and dedicated coach would welcome the opportunity to share knowledge (or be strong enough to admit when he or she does not know).

 

[Orangesoda]

It's far more important, how it's done, rather than what or when it is done. Sadly, the majority of kids I see coming from other gyms (yes, that includes some of the elite gyms, and gyms with former Olympians) have techniques that promotes those sorts of injuries and worse. I don't know what I would do if I were a parent on the outside looking in. How could you possibly know who is good, who is safe? Even their track record of winning means nothing. I worked at a large elite/national gym and from the outside all looked great, and they had the kids to prove it. The part most people overlooked was how many kids were ruined in the process.......

So disconcerting! I AM that parent looking in. I have no credibility whatsoever - I'm sure the coaches would think I was nutso if I started questioning their practices.

 

[Orangesoda]

Funny, at that age I do everything I can to prevent them from having a dominant side. I have them continue to do the same amount of left cartwheels as right cartwheels all the way up thru compulsories. By the time they get to compulsories/optionals, they can do everything on all sides in their basic tumbling and dance complexes. Same for kick overs (eventually walkovers). Why are they trying to establish a dominant side so young?!

I don't like having preschoolers do any type of kicking over. The first gym I ever worked at (in the 80s) shared a study with us that showed that kids who did such early back bend work were at increased risk for all of the various forms of "spondy" conditions. We simply skipped the back bend work and instead substituted BHS work until they were 6 to be safe. There were certain forms of bridge work that was considered okay, but back bends and kickovers were delayed. This was also an elite gym, early into the TOPS program way back when. I've carried this philosophy with me since then.

As for the eye rolling, does your gym offer parent meetings where the game plan is discussed every so often? I try to meet with the newbies every 6 months as a group to explain in advance what they should expect for the next 6 months. It's a great time for them to ask questions such as the one you asked without feeling that they are questioning my coaching.

I've been made aware of no meetings, but I believe I'm just too early into the machine. I believe we're in a pre pre-team class, so we still have another pre team step which is believe competes at level 2....and then team is level 3. I'm pond scum. Ha.

Someone with some credibility should start a thread entitled "how to confront your gym's coaches regarding potential spondylitis".

That was a joke. Sort of. But not really. But sort of.

 

[gymjunkie]

I've been made aware of no meetings, but I believe I'm just too early into the machine. I believe we're in a pre pre-team class, so we still have another pre team step which is believe competes at level 2....and then team is level 3. I'm pond scum. Ha.

Someone with some credibility should start a thread entitled "how to confront your gym's coaches regarding potential spondylitis".

That was a joke. Sort of. But not really. But sort of.

I meet with my pre-team parents more than my team parents, because they have the most questions!

I don't know that "confrontation" is the answer. You have to make a judgement call as to whether or not they prioritize safety. One clue is if they have a close relationship with sports medical professionals. If you ask them where you might take your daughter if she gets injured and they shrug their shoulders or tell you they handle the injuries themselves (without having the proper training to do so), that's probably a red flag that they do not really take injury prevention/ management very seriously! In a sport like gymnastics, that's unacceptable. If you think this is true about your gym, interview other gyms very carefully about this when shopping for a new gym.

 

[Gymsanity]

Someone with some credibility should start a thread entitled "how to confront your gym's coaches regarding potential spondylitis".

Talking to coaches about their 'methods' is usually no easy matter. I feel many believe that they are above and beyond reproach, and will definitely let you know that! My experience has been that the angrier the coach, the more insecure they are, the more insecure they are, the less they know, the less they know, the less likely they are going to explain things..... At the end of the day, we are educators. So, whether we are educating children or their parents, that is in our job description. Wish I had a better answer......

 

[iwannacoach]

Someone with some credibility should start a thread entitled "how to confront your gym's coaches regarding potential spondylitis".

Talking to coaches about their 'methods' is usually no easy matter. I feel many believe that they are above and beyond reproach, and will definitely let you know that! My experience has been that the angrier the coach, the more insecure they are, the more insecure they are, the less they know, the less they know, the less likely they are going to explain things..... At the end of the day, we are educators. So, whether we are educating children or their parents, that is in our job description. Wish I had a better answer......

Good way to put it.......

Coaches should be happy to chat up issues with parents to the extent that time allows. I would say that bringing potential issues into discussions with parents is better than waiting for them to bring it to you. It's then that you can put your knowledge and experience to use and shape the tone and direction of the discussion.

 

[LJL07]

I meet with my pre-team parents more than my team parents, because they have the most questions!

I don't know that "confrontation" is the answer. You have to make a judgement call as to whether or not they prioritize safety. One clue is if they have a close relationship with sports medical professionals. If you ask them where you might take your daughter if she gets injured and they shrug their shoulders or tell you they handle the injuries themselves (without having the proper training to do so), that's probably a red flag that they do not really take injury prevention/ management very seriously! In a sport like gymnastics, that's unacceptable. If you think this is true about your gym, interview other gyms very carefully about this when shopping for a new gym.

I think that's great that you meet with pre team parents. It's such a big commitment. I think of the boiling a frog post/thread. They should have some clue what they are signing on for. Having been at two gyms now with my girls, I find it disappointing that at both gyms the coaches are in general kind of defensive and not terribly approachable. I personally am not having any issues with our current coaches, but I hear team parents complain often about how questions are not well received. On the other hand, I'm sure these coaches deal with extreme crazy on a regular basis. I wish there could be some kind of alliance. All parents are not the enemy!

 

[Ali'sMom]

I think if you see something that you think could be wrong, then maybe ask the coach "I know nothing about gymnastics, but is it a problem she is cartwheeling with one leg and kicking over with another". That way it comes across as if you are asking a question, not questioning their coaching. When I was coaching I appreciated parents with questions

I start almost every question I have with "I know nothing..." LOL!
Pretty much everything I do know, I've learned here on CB

 

[Amusibus]

In the beginning, I noticed that there is a whole new set of rules once your child goes down the team track. There are those rules in the handbook, but there are many, many other rules that are unwritten. The only way you find out about them is by breaking them. Not really fair, but kind of like life, if you think about it. I know where you are coming from. It is true that you need to relax and trust the coaches, but this takes time, and the more you learn about the way things work, the easier it will be to take a step back. I think all us parents pretty much started out where you are, but for some it's hard to remember because it was long ago (not for me though).