WAG Different programs/progressions

[OzZee]

So how well in your country/area are different programs explained. And the options available.
Whether it's our club only trains to level 6, or UK/Aus different streams.
I don't think here in Australia that it's explained at all, and not really even to gymnasts/families in clubs with all 2/3 streams.
You go, they pick, you decide but if the choices werent' there you wouldn't know.
So similar to JO/Excel, it may not be a talent thing, but kids if they knew about the different programs could choose the right one for them and not leave the sport.

 

[Muddlethru]

Not well, in my opinion. My experience is some gyms have multiple programs (USAG, excel, prep op, IGC, etc.) but most have only USAG. Most of the time, if you go to the gym the coach makes a recommendation on a program they feel is best suited, if there is that option, or have you join the only program they have available. And you take it or leave it. I find very little decision is left to the family/gymnast. The coaches we've had do not like explaining things. They assume you already know things and you should just trust them. Going in, I think it is best to do your research and then ask questions.

The programs available may or may not be a talent thing and may be provided for the purposes of catering to various gymnasts commitment level. However, there is a universal hierachy of programs that some gymnasts feel inferior joining and prefer to quit instead of "dropping" down a program.

 

[GymMomXcel]

Ours just has the USAG JO and the USAG Xcel and I think if you ask the coaches, they'll explain it. But mostly, they just have meetings and decide where it is best for your gymnast to go and then let you know what they will be competing and training the next season.

 

[htimcj]

It isn't explained at all in my experience. Our gym only does JO but some gyms on the other side of the state have started excel programs. When some of the parents saw that they had no idea what it was. I only learned about any other program after I joined here.

 

[MILgymFAM]

It wasn't explained to us at all. Our gym has four levels, or streams, of competition. I didn't learn about any of them till after they placed DD in xcel. I actually learned the differences between them all here. DD learned when we were planning our move. I do wish info was more readily given out, so parents and kids could make informed decisions before committing.

 

[Amusibus]

Ours has 4 levels of team. They were explained somewhat, but not fully at the outset. You get a better idea as you go along what each of them is about and what the commitments are. Kids come to team either straight from rec or from developmental. Our developmental program is pretty intense at 9 hours and 3 days a week. Age 7, they choose TOPS, JO, "League", or Excel. The higher programs all come from developmental, while league is half from developmental and half from rec. Excel girls all come from rec. Excel goes 5 hrs/wk, league goes 8, JO starts at 12 and up from there, TOPS starts at 20 something and homeschooling is mandatory as they are daytime practices. Also league and excel meets are cheaper and are all local-ish, no more that 3 hours away.

 

[Faith]

Not at all (in UK).

I am the only parent I know that has an understanding of the UK system. To be honest, the only way to find out is somewhere like chalbucket, it's not even explained by BG well on it's website. One club has an overview, but you need to be a bit of an internet nerd to find it.

I have heard of several parents with 8/9/10 year olds not realising that there is a separate elite track- they think if their talented kid does enough hours and works hard enough they might be up there like Beth Tweddle, when the reality is they can't if they're not tracked elite from around 8.

I think the lack of transparency means parents can't make the correct choice for their child.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

ditto @Faith, Its taken me 7 years of involvement with the system to get to my level of knowledge, its like extracting government secrets finding any information at all.

 

[Aussie_coach]

The are many, many different gymsports for a start. You have Men's Artistic gymnastics, Women's artistic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, sport acrobatics, sports aerobics, trampoline and tumbling, cheerleading, recreational gymnastics, team gym and so on.

Very few single gymnastics clubs would offer all these options. The same god for different streams within a gymsport. Each club offers what they want to and what they can depending on coach abilities, equipment, facilities, time, what other clubs in the area are offering and so on.

I don't think it is essential for parents to be overly informed about what is out there, because the whole array of choices is actually mind boggling. Few will even know the physical strengths and weaknesses of their child, let alone which gymsport and stream would be ideal.

 

[COz]

Thanks to some coaches that I know socially, plus ChalkBucket, I have some understanding about the differences offered in Australia. From my experience, better than most of the parents with children a similar age (young) which is perhaps worrying. Most of my information is from here.

If I had not explicitly asked, the difference between SS, NDP and IDP would not have been explained to me. IDP was not even mentioned at our previous gym as it was not offered, which is fine, but when that gym then puts a barely 4 year old in a development class with 6 year olds, then perhaps they should have given me hints to look elsewhere for younger age groups.

I don't think it is essential for parents to be overly informed about what is out there, because the whole array of choices is actually mind boggling. Few will even know the physical strengths and weaknesses of their child, let alone which gymsport and stream would be ideal.

But there does need to be some kind of understanding of differences when there are different expectations in terms of levels of commitment and hours/cost. Your gym may do a better job of giving just the right amount of information, but a lot of gyms provide basically no information and then parents suddenly find themselves with a whole lot of hours of gym time to take their young child to and lots of juggling of other kids activities.

From my experience (from conversations with coaches that I am friends with, not conversations about my child) coaches tend to assume that parents asking for information about the different programs are doing so because they somehow have this idea that their child will go to the Olympics etc
If the difference between say IDP and NDP were clearly explained at the outset, this would allow parents who really don't want to make the time commitment for whatever reason, to make an informed decision early, rather than it becoming a big deal further down the track when there may be helpings of guilt and disappointment mixed in.

Websites often have a short blurb about program differences, but most parents don't seem to read it. A 10 minute conversation when the child is invited to a particular program would go a long way.

Parents get upset at the lack of information, coaches feel hassled and feel that parents don't need to know this information. Head coaches end up having to be administrative people who are perhaps from stronger coaching rather than business backgrounds, clubs run by committees, non-profit organizations etc. mean that this early communications seems to be missed.

I'm sure some gyms are wonderfully organised and perhaps even either talk to parents when the kids enter a program or provide a handout or something, but it hasn't happened to me at either of 2 gyms.

 

[COz]

Coaches also seem to work on the assumption that parents might be trying to push their children into programs that they aren't a suited for (eg. IDP). Perhaps parents word it badly but I don't think parents are trying to say that they know more than the coaches, but they are trying to have some involvement in their child's placement. They are normally trying to figure out if they want their child to be placed in a less intensive program than is being suggested.

Either way, the fact that these things come up and that coaches seem to get quite irritated and defensive about these conversations seems to indicate that there needs to be more information presented to parents at an earlier stage.

 

[OzZee]

But surely because of the many options out there it is more important parents know what is available.
Gyms offer within what they have available, whether that is the right stream or as you have pointed out even gymsport.
I know gyms don't want to loose gymnasts but if parents and gymnasts don't know the options then many will leave because they aren't in the right place.
It's not just about the child's physical capabilities but also the child's and families commitment abilities. Your post seems to infer that if everyone knew about IDP they'd all be wanting it, I know of as many families who have changed gyms to go from NDP to SS as have changed to go from NDP to IDP. I also know of kids who have left altogether because they don't know about the options.
And within Australia's very limited numbers I've seen girls who would have done well in IDP not find out about it until it's too late to consider.
Also so many families leave gyms because they don't feel they get enough communication/understand the next step etc.
Maybe parents don't need to know about the options - but that would be the case if the coaches communicated what would be best for each child to the parents and the options available, rather than just putting them in one stream/sport because that is what they offer and that's it.

The are many, many different gymsports for a start. You have Men's Artistic gymnastics, Women's artistic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, sport acrobatics, sports aerobics, trampoline and tumbling, cheerleading, recreational gymnastics, team gym and so on.

Very few single gymnastics clubs would offer all these options. The same god for different streams within a gymsport. Each club offers what they want to and what they can depending on coach abilities, equipment, facilities, time, what other clubs in the area are offering and so on.

I don't think it is essential for parents to be overly informed about what is out there, because the whole array of choices is actually mind boggling. Few will even know the physical strengths and weaknesses of their child, let alone which gymsport and stream would be ideal.

 

[raenndrops]

In our gym, rec leads to Team USAG L3.
Every March, HC has a parent meeting with the advanced rec parents to let them know about options and time frames and pricing.
IF a child has made it through the 3 rec levels but does not want to compete, we have a "Non-Compete" team level class... It is actually a shorter class than the last level of rec (if in rec, you choose the 2 days/week option). N-C is 1.5 hrs x 2 days. Adv. Rec is 2 hrs x 1 or 2 days.
Another gym we compete against got so big that they have their Rec classes and they also have basically a developmental track. When a new student goes for an evaluation, they are given their options in both rec and dev. The parents are told that the dev. leads to team and competing. Rec does not. They are also told that at the end of every session, they will be given the option to continue in rec (and what level) or continue in dev. (and what level)... each gymnast gets a paper with BOTH options on it and the parent signs them up for whichever suits the family and gymnast. This gym is particular about form from the very beginning - in both rec and dev, so girls do not move up very fast unless they are spot-on.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Biggest problem here in the USA is the compulsory floor music, UGHHHHH,,,,, I seriously don't know why that can't just do skill sets, like the elite compulsory routine. Would anyone miss the music???? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[gymisforeveryone]

We have two streams, but they don't separate before the kids hit optional skills level. So everyone competes the same compulsory levels B, C and D. After that or at the same time coaches choose if the gymnasts try to do Diamond testing. It's pretty much like your TOPS in USA: they have certain skills (BHS, FHS, Yurchenko timers, tap swings, walkovers, balance routine on beam etc) and certain strength and flexibility tests made (the strength and flexibility are much harder that the skills) and the kids have to pass 20/25 of the skills and other stuff.

If the kid passes Diamond testing they switch to elite stream and if they don't do Diamond they stay where they are and compete levels E and F which are optionals. If they do the switch they compete levels 2, 3, 4 and 5, 5 being the highest and national level with FIG rules. They cannot skip any of the levels.

Even if the kids usually switch when they are 9-11 years old they have been picked to certain training groups at 6-7 years old. So even if all the gymnasts compete the same levels B, C and D at the beginning, there's usually two groups of each age in every competitive gyms: one group is for less natural talented kids or kids whose parents don't want them to train every day and they practice 6-12 hours a week. Then there is those groups who do Diamond and they have the most experienced coaches and train 10-20 hours a week. Kids cannot choose to do Diamond, it's coaches who choose it. There's some transition between these streams but not much and it depends on the gym.

I coach those compulsory levels B-F. I also have some seriously talented kids who occasionally win at competitions in levels B-D even if the Diamond girls participate. The thing is that even if my girls might shine at lower compulsory levels they usually lack strength, flexibility, work ethic, money or they are "too old" so they are left to this stream. But I'm happy with that, I don't have any elite coaching aspirations.