MAG Difficulty vs Execution

[jenjean70]

This is his mock meet. I think he has some things that are difficult and others that are clean. The coach said that they are going to try more clean this year.

 

[sce]

That is one packed floor routine! He definitely got tired.

 

[profmom]

He has a lot of skills in those routines!

I wonder a bit though about floor. He is only allowed to count eight skills, seven plus the dismount. Anything he does beyond that is only getting him deductions. The way my son's coach explained it to me as well, including extra skills has the possibility of knocking out a group requirement if the one skill that fulfills the group is of lower value than skills in other groups. He might be better off doing just three or four passes, which would help him not get so tired, ensure that he's well within the time limit, and not give the judges extra stuff to deduct.

You should also be aware that some judges will be much stricter on deductions for things like bent arm presses, short holds, and ring positioning on rings, and form breaks on pbars. My son did L8 under a different set of rules, so I can't speak to whether he's got all of his special requirements. Does he have everything he needs on horse? I can tell you that a really nice plain old tucked tsuk will score well even in L9. Are these the routines he's planning to compete? It seems to me that if he did a little work on the routine construction, took out unnecessary extra skills, and dialed back to competing skills he can do more cleanly, he is set up for a really great year.

 

[sce]

I went back and counted he has at least 11 skills in his floor routine. As profmom said, he can only count 8. Any idea why the coach is having him do that?

 

[jenjean70]

He has a lot of skills in those routines!

I wonder a bit though about floor. He is only allowed to count eight skills, seven plus the dismount. Anything he does beyond that is only getting him deductions. The way my son's coach explained it to me as well, including extra skills has the possibility of knocking out a group requirement if the one skill that fulfills the group is of lower value than skills in other groups. He might be better off doing just three or four passes, which would help him not get so tired, ensure that he's well within the time limit, and not give the judges extra stuff to deduct.

You should also be aware that some judges will be much stricter on deductions for things like bent arm presses, short holds, and ring positioning on rings, and form breaks on pbars. My son did L8 under a different set of rules, so I can't speak to whether he's got all of his special requirements. Does he have everything he needs on horse? I can tell you that a really nice plain old tucked tsuk will score well even in L9. Are these the routines he's planning to compete? It seems to me that if he did a little work on the routine construction, took out unnecessary extra skills, and dialed back to competing skills he can do more cleanly, he is set up for a really great year.

On rings he usually looses a lot because of his arm position and not turning out the rings. He realized he was too high in his plange and he muscled his giant. The judge didn't deduct that much on pbars or his stick bonus made up for it- he got less than 8 tenths of deduction so he got a one tenth bonus...I thought the judge was a little easy on this. I don't know about the floor but I will ask. They are usually pretty open with their reasoning on things...In fact DS came home yesterday and said they are trying to upgrade his punch lay to a punch full. I can understand competing harder skills at the beginning of the season in hopes of making them better for the end or taking them out if need be. I know they go for clean and consistent esp for regionals so that they have a better chance of making nationals. We shall see how the meet goes in a couple of weeks.....

 

[jenjean70]

I went back and counted he has at least 11 skills in his floor routine. As profmom said, he can only count 8. Any idea why the coach is having him do that?

No idea but I will ask.

 

[skschlag]

I know my ds just had to pull some things out of his fx. If something were to go wrong on his strength move, he could risk losing that element group to higher level tumbling. Not sure how I feel about it, and he is working some C strength moves, but those are hard to come by. Plus, with the time limit, he was rushing, and exhausted by the end. Better to pull things out, do 8 skills, and have the stamina to finish

 

[jenjean70]

I know my ds just had to pull some things out of his fx. If something were to go wrong on his strength move, he could risk losing that element group to higher level tumbling. Not sure how I feel about it, and he is working some C strength moves, but those are hard to come by. Plus, with the time limit, he was rushing, and exhausted by the end. Better to pull things out, do 8 skills, and have the stamina to finish

I think they are throwing in everything but the kitchen sink for now to see what sticks and will pull things out as necessary. I think this is the one event that they can really push him in the difficulty dept so they are going for the highest potential score they can possibly get out of him. We'll see what it really looks like by the end of the season.

 

[skschlag]

Sounds good. I hope they take into account that nothing counts after 8 skills for his D score, and really, that time limit......gonna be fun for all of us

 

[skschlag]

Sounds good. I hope they take into account that nothing counts after 8 skills for his D score, and really, that time limit......gonna be fun for all of us

 

[profmom]

The time limit is a real issue! My son's coach is really working with all the optionals to reconfigure their floor routines so that they fit. It's a challenge for my guy even with only four tumbling passes and eight skills, because he gets a lot of his difficulty from corner moves that take a little more time to do well. He really can't afford to take the .3 overtime deduction.

 

[jenjean70]

The time limit is a real issue! My son's coach is really working with all the optionals to reconfigure their floor routines so that they fit. It's a challenge for my guy even with only four tumbling passes and eight skills, because he gets a lot of his difficulty from corner moves that take a little more time to do well. He really can't afford to take the .3 overtime deduction.

Is this a new time limit? I was asking some of the level 9s about it and they said that it has always been there. I am so confused! I watched some videos of some of the gymnasts in our area at nationals and I can see that they are tailoring his routine after those gymnasts. They often ask that coach for advice and I also know they want to be able to beat them at the higher levels so I figure that is why they have packed it with difficulty....Ugh! Oh well- I guess in the long run it will make him a better gymnast even if he doesn't score high.

 

[skschlag]

It is a clarification of the rules, meaning I don't think they were doing it everyhwere, or there was confusion about it

Clarification: Optional Levels 8, 9, 10 – Routines on FX will be timed (FIG Rules)

They have 70 seconds to get it all in. anything over is .3 ND. DS's 4th place at nationals L9 floor routine was right at 60 Seconds (whew).

 

[jenjean70]

Ok. Wow. DS mock meet routine was 14 seconds over the time limit. I wonder if the judge deducted for that.....

 

[krc]

Hi CB'ers,
There are quite a few changes in the new rules, and it is very important that the coaches keep up. Many things that were "allowed" under the JO system, are now deductions per FIG. The time limit is one example. It has always been a rule in FIG, but not enforced at JO. Now that are rules are based on FIG jr, we default to FIG standards when questions arise. It would be wise to have routines "vetted" by a good FIG judge prior to the season. We all miss some things some times!

KRC

 

[krc]

Hi CB'ers,
There are quite a few changes in the new rules, and it is very important that the coaches keep up. Many things that were "allowed" under the JO system, are now deductions per FIG. The time limit is one example. It has always been a rule in FIG, but not enforced at JO. Now that are rules are based on FIG jr, we default to FIG standards when questions arise. It would be wise to have routines "vetted" by a good FIG judge prior to the season. We all miss some things some times!

KRC

 

[jenjean70]

Hi CB'ers,
There are quite a few changes in the new rules, and it is very important that the coaches keep up. Many things that were "allowed" under the JO system, are now deductions per FIG. The time limit is one example. It has always been a rule in FIG, but not enforced at JO. Now that are rules are based on FIG jr, we default to FIG standards when questions arise. It would be wise to have routines "vetted" by a good FIG judge prior to the season. We all miss some things some times!

KRC

It is a clarification of the rules, meaning I don't think they were doing it everyhwere, or there was confusion about it

Clarification: Optional Levels 8, 9, 10 – Routines on FX will be timed (FIG Rules)

They have 70 seconds to get it all in. anything over is .3 ND. DS's 4th place at nationals L9 floor routine was right at 60 Seconds (whew).

Our coach said that there's always been a time limit and I guess his 2 falls didn't count against the time limit so he was still under time...as for the number of skills- I am not sure. I know they are trying to get connection bonus- so.....I dunno.....

 

[krc]

Falls on FX do not stop the clock. On the apparatus, you have 30 sec to remount - different animal.

KRC

 

[sce]

Our coach said that there's always been a time limit and I guess his 2 falls didn't count against the time limit so he was still under time...as for the number of skills- I am not sure. I know they are trying to get connection bonus- so.....I dunno.....

Well the fall negates the value of the skills and the connections.

 

[jenjean70]

Falls on FX do not stop the clock. On the apparatus, you have 30 sec to remount - different animal.

KRC

That's what I thought....but that's not what the coach told me. I ask questions but I don't feel like it is my place to make suggestions and definitely not corrections. I guess we'll just have to wait and see since there's nothing else I can do. He's being pushed to his upper limit on floor and he's willing to work so that's something positive even if the scores don't reflect it.