MAG Difficulty vs Execution

[krc]

When Arkayev, the famous Russian coach was asked why his gymnasts were so good he said (paraphrased): My gymnasts practice at 100% and compete at 80%. Your gymnasts try to do the opposite. In the US we too often rely on adrenaline or the "hype" of competition to get us over the top. IMHO it is why we always falter on the second day. Training at the edge is never a problem, that's how it should be. Competing on the edge however...

Best wishes,
KRC

 

[jenjean70]

When Arkayev, the famous Russian coach was asked why his gymnasts were so good he said (paraphrased): My gymnasts practice at 100% and compete at 80%. Your gymnasts try to do the opposite. In the US we too often rely on adrenaline or the "hype" of competition to get us over the top. IMHO it is why we always falter on the second day. Training at the edge is never a problem, that's how it should be. Competing on the edge however...

Best wishes,
KRC

It is so true. That's why the women are so successful.

 

[skschlag]

When Arkayev, the famous Russian coach was asked why his gymnasts were so good he said (paraphrased): My gymnasts practice at 100% and compete at 80%. Your gymnasts try to do the opposite. In the US we too often rely on adrenaline or the "hype" of competition to get us over the top. IMHO it is why we always falter on the second day. Training at the edge is never a problem, that's how it should be. Competing on the edge however...

Best wishes,
KRC

Our coach definitely does this. The routines are a small glimpse of what they are working on. And when they get a new skill, it replaces something else. They still have all the skills, and work them all in practice, but the ready ones are the ones that are used in the meets...

 

[profmom]

Last season, my son's coach at times got annoyed at him when he got angry and down on himself for missing a routine at meets. As he kept telling him, if you're hitting the routine around 30% of the time in practice, you shouldn't be counting on pulling a miracle hit out of your behind at a meet. I am hoping that lesson was learned last season and that he won't insist on competing ALL the AWESOMES. Plenty of time to work on them in the gym -- and then maybe they actually will be awesome next year!

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

I haven't been on here in forever! I hope everyone is doing well and that all your kids are healthy!!

My son attended a Region 5 camp last month. He said the coaches were saying if you are hitting your routines now (November) then they are too easy for later in the season. I think at the beginning of the season it is about trying the high difficulty and if it doesn't become clean then it gets removed or replaced for end of season meets.

 

[skschlag]

I haven't been on here in forever! I hope everyone is doing well and that all your kids are healthy!!

My son attended a Region 5 camp last month. He said the coaches were saying if you are hitting your routines now (November) then they are too easy for later in the season. I think at the beginning of the season it is about trying the high difficulty and if it doesn't become clean then it gets removed or replaced for end of season meets.

I guess that is one philosophy. Our coach believes in competing clean from the start, while working harder skills to add in later. All of our boys have "base routines" that are their "I coudl compete them now and do well" routine, and upgrades they are working. My son added a ton of difficulty throughout the season. I think this keeps the team healthy, as this team he is on now has very few gymnastics injuries. His old team, which was chuck it and see later, had a ton of injuries.

But that is why there are differing philisophies. I love the competing clean and safe routines!

 

[jenjean70]

I haven't been on here in forever! I hope everyone is doing well and that all your kids are healthy!!

My son attended a Region 5 camp last month. He said the coaches were saying if you are hitting your routines now (November) then they are too easy for later in the season. I think at the beginning of the season it is about trying the high difficulty and if it doesn't become clean then it gets removed or replaced for end of season meets.

That is the philosophy our coaches had been following the past few years but this year they are going for clean and consistent. I talked to my son's coach this year and he said they this year they are evaluating all of the routines and giving them "res" if they don't have straight arms, legs etc. They are trying for "0" deductions and I am glad. They still have him do harder skills in practice though.

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

So I talked to my son and I didn't have that exactly right. He said your routines will get cleaner later in the season but that you wouldn't include skills that aren't meet ready until they are ready. He plans to add skills to all his routines later in the season. Ugh - does he really need to keep adding more!?

I also asked him about the number of skills you can count on floor. He said 8 and that you can do more but only 8 count and doing more just gives more opportunity for deductions. He said all of his routines contain about 10 but that is because some of them you need in there but you wouldn't count because they are A skills. He mentioned a circle on pommel horse - that you do one but you wouldn't want to count it in your start value. I think you just count your top 8 highest level skills. I really should know more about this sport than I do.

 

[skschlag]

Exactly. ANd new this year is this....(I will try to explain it!)

If you are on floor, and you do 8 tumbling skills taht are Bs and higher, but your strength move is an A, you wil llose that element group. They only tally teh 8 highest skills, and if you have a group that is not in that group, you can lose that .5! SO D has gone thru his routine to make sure that is good....

 

[sce]

Exactly. ANd new this year is this....(I will try to explain it!)

If you are on floor, and you do 8 tumbling skills taht are Bs and higher, but your strength move is an A, you wil llose that element group. They only tally teh 8 highest skills, and if you have a group that is not in that group, you can lose that .5! SO D has gone thru his routine to make sure that is good....

Wow, I had not heard that.

 

[skschlag]

Wow, I had not heard that.

Yeah. I might not be explaining it right but that is the gist

 

[profmom]

Yes, our guys have all been working on upgrading their corner moves for this reason. Fortunately there are a good number of Bs that work, but once you have to start looking for Cs, it gets harder. It's not going to be a problem for most guys on most events, but good tumblers will have to be careful on floor.

 

[skschlag]

D has added a roll with a press thru his arms....that is a C I think. And they are taking out one of his bazillion tumbling passes for an endo press.

 

[profmom]

This won't be a problem for my guy for a while on floor because he's not a talented tumbler, but he has the manna now. Actually, he might eventually run up against it on pbars, but the solution there is just to keep the routine short so that the low value skill in whichever group it is has to count (can't remember which group he says is hard there) .

 

[skschlag]

Exactly J! 8 skills and OUT! lol.

(D got something called a Peters last night. He and his coach think it is quite funny to discuss......)

 

[jenjean70]

Yes, our guys have all been working on upgrading their corner moves for this reason. Fortunately there are a good number of Bs that work, but once you have to start looking for Cs, it gets harder. It's not going to be a problem for most guys on most events, but good tumblers will have to be careful on floor.

What do you mean that good tumblers will have to be careful on floor? I am still trying to understand all of this.

 

[skschlag]

Not sure it matters with L8 with the SR...

but at 9/10...

8 skills are allowed. If you 9/10 skills....and 8 are c/d tumbling skills. then your strength move is a b, technically the gymnast should lose credit fro the strength move since it is not in the 8 highest skills. Judges are supposed to count the 8 highest skills, then do the element groups from those. So, if a move from a group is not in the 8 highest skills, they can lose the credit for that group.

 

[jenjean70]

Not sure it matters with L8 with the SR...

but at 9/10...

8 skills are allowed. If you 9/10 skills....and 8 are c/d tumbling skills. then your strength move is a b, technically the gymnast should lose credit fro the strength move since it is not in the 8 highest skills. Judges are supposed to count the 8 highest skills, then do the element groups from those. So, if a move from a group is not in the 8 highest skills, they can lose the credit for that group.

Oh, WOW! That's crazy. Do you know if a triple Russian on floor is considered a strength move?

 

[skschlag]

It is. D is working on one, but it has to be perfect, and not fall short of 3 rotations in order to count. I guess they are strict with it....

 

[profmom]

But remember that split or seal to press handstand is a B. So is a simple V seat. They have to be careful not to put in only one skill and not get credit for it. Between this and the time limit, short, balanced, and clean is the way to go!