Coaches Getting kids to pay attention to details

[coachmolly]

I have a group of Xcel Bronze girls, will start competing in January. Almost all of them have all of the skills they need, but lately they have been struggling with paying attention to detail and taking their time. We had a 3 week break at the end of the summer and since coming back I feel like things have been a mess. We are into our 3rd week back, have sat them down and talked to them about how competing means they need to pay attention to details as every little bent leg, flexed foot will result in a deduction, but it just doesn't seem to be sticking. It's even carried over to their conditioning and basics, we feel like we are constantly nagging but it's obviously not working.
Over the summer we worked really hard on strength with tons of conditioning and somehow the girls seem to be weaker, kids who could breeze through bar routines can barely manage a pullover, girls who could do 5 pull-ups unassisted need help.
We work on TONS of basics and drills, almost no new skills, and it just doesn't seem to be sticking and I am at a total loss. We do have time to get it together, but I am so worried about putting them out there at a meet looking the way that they do now.
Had anyone else dealt with a group like this? What have you done that has worked? Pep talks? Just being tough on them? Waiting until they get to their first meet and letting them see what happens? Another coach has offered to come in and "judge" them one evening, would having someone else give them feedback and talk to them help?
Any suggestions at all would be really helpful. The other coach and I are just at a total loss as to how to get through to them.

 

[Sari]

I'm in the same spot right now, except our first meet is in December.

It sounds to me like you're doing the best you can. I'd keep going with the drills. Personally, I also stop-motion spot skills they have but have trouble performing cleanly to reinforce the correct shapes and give their heads more time to translate verbal corrections into movement.

I do play the mean coach a lot lately, but you have to look at your gymnasts and decide if they can take the tough love. Mine can, some more than others. One of mine in particular needs a lot of positive reinforcement, so if I came in yelling at her for not pointing her toes in her handstands, she'd burst into tears. I give a lot of high fives for proper form (to everyone), which seems to be helping.

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks, sounds like what we've been doing. I am tough but give tons of praise when they make corrections. I do have one that needs lots of encouragement, but she is also one that naturally pays attention to detail, so that is not much of an issue. Two of the girls, possibly our two sloppiest- they are super strong, so just muscle things around and because they are making it, don't think anything is wrong- are seemingly immune to critique. Just totally unaffected by a coach speaking to them sternly, asking if they need to sit out, being sent to stretch until they can get their heads back on straight. They just come bouncing back making the same error or engaging in the same behavior as before. I am not a yeller, so it is more constant reminders and sometimes being a little bit stern. I do the stop motion as well, I keep telling myself it will all come together in time. Hopefully.

 

[strawberries]

I like the idea of a judge coming in. A score may be worth a thousand words.

Also, even though it isn't necessarily efficient, adding a couple minutes of uptraining at the end of a rotation as a reward for hard work, good form, completing assignment, etc. could be a big incentive if they're feeling burnt out/ bored on conditioning and drills.

 

[gymdog]

This is something I constantly struggle with because I naturally gravitate towards repetition and a lot of basics which is necessary BUT it can also cause problems. So I have to constantly keep myself in check and re-evaluate different ways to do things. Kids are naturally like this, and you need to break them out of just going through the motions. They also have a long school day. There are a few coaching strategies that will help and I'll give credit where credit is due:

1. Let the equipment work for you (credit to Cassie Rice): so, set up a station that won't work or will be obvious to them (feedback) if they do it wrong. For example, if they're doing roundoffs, set up a tunnel so that if they throw themselves into it crooked, they hit a mat. Then they'll know it was wrong.

2. Drill it, don't kill it (Tammy Biggs): her philosophy is "if you make them have a problem they will" - I.e. Sometimes we have a kid doing something wrong so we say go again, go again and it just keeps getting more wrong. She sets it up so they have one attempt at something they're learning and then "good, bad, ugly, move on." Then they'll just go through something else easy and get one more try. But basically her point is a lot of fears and bad habits are created by coaches panicking when a kid starts messing up something the coach feels they can do and so the coach tries to have them do it again and again and correct it which just makes it worse. It's better to move on and try again later sometimes. If they get less tries to make it right, they'll also be more likely to be alert when they get the chance.

I have to CONSTANTLY remind myself of this one...it's my natural inclination to "dig in" when a kid I've been coaching for a long time starts messing up on something they've done before perfectly. But it generally always makes the situation worse or any temporary benefit is short lived and at the expense of great stress for everyone. It's never worth it, but I catch myself doing it all the time.

3. Do something to keep them alert (Tom Koll): of course this is easier when you're a naturally hilarious performer like he is, but for example on beam he'll do something like sing a little tune or play a sound randomly while he's leading beam basics and that's the "magical beam switching music" and every kid has to scramble and get on the next beam without being last. This keeps them alert and watching his face for cues so they don't miss the sound and end up last.

4. Partners: I usually make my kids do everything with a partner counting because it cuts down on cheating, especially if you set some simple ground rules for what "counts" like "if they bend their legs that one doesn't count." Then I don't feel like I constantly have to be yelling at everyone at once AND the kids realize how frustrating it is to tell someone 10 times "your legs are bent". Pretty much everything has a partner and the partner is always supposed to give feedback. In your example of the pull-ups when my kids don't do it whether I think they can or I think they can't, I just say "get a partner to help you" and don't give it any more attention. Just completely ignore. Then I take the faster kids to something else and those who are moving slow and not finishing miss it. Which is fine if they aren't ready but if they really can do the pull-ups they learn to go faster. I've also had to do it where everyone goes one at a time, and they don't like that either so they learn to work together so we have more time to work on kips or tumbling.

But the bottom line is it sounds like you need a carrot if you work on NO new skills. I always would have some kind of goal where if they complete it they can move on to drills. In bronze for example I would have them doing a roundoff over or in between mats (the same station set up in triplicate or so with three kids for each, again set up the equipment so it does the job) and I would say something like you have to get ten "yeses" from me to move on to back handspring over the barrel, then I watch and if they hit the mat it's a no. If they get the ten they do the next thing.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Like anyone, kids pay attention to things that get their attention. The coach telling them a million times to point their toes is often tuned out encause they have heard it a million times before. Kids need attention grabbing methods.

One idea is to video the, and show examples of how it looks when it is done correctly and how it looks when it doesn't. A lot of the time they think they are pointing their toes, until they see it and realise they really aren't.

It is very important to praise what you want, when you see it. Kids take their cues from the coaches as to what is I,portent. If the coach phrases Emma for straight legs, the whole team knows straight legs are important and they want to get in on that praise, so try to straighten their legs too.

Praise also focuses on their capabilities instead of their deficiencies.m when you correct them you are telling them they are not good at something (correction is stil VERY important), but when you,praise them you are telling the, they are good at it.

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks so much for the great feedback, I really appreciate it!
I use LOTS of praise, even for really little things. Verbal praise, high fives, asking them to demonstrate for their teammates and praising their progress in front of everyone, all kinds of stuff. And I do try to mix praise with correction, so even if a kid is really struggling with something I try to find something good. And I think that's sort of where my deep rooted fear is coming from. HC (who does not coach this group at all) is very no nonsense, but produces results. I fear that I'm too far on the praising, nurturing side and won't get the results HC desires.
I do use uptraining as a carrot dangled in front of them (do 3 routines that get a "pass" or finish your assignment and then you can work on X new skill), but that doesn't even seem to do the trick lately. Maybe if I break it down even more to make the carrot more reachable. Especially on things like tumbling.
I have tried the partner thing a bit and it didn't go over great, didn't seem to want to correct one another or pay attention to what their partner was doing. But maybe I will try again and be much more specific with what does/doesn't count- if legs are bent or feet are floppy it doesn't count rather than don't count the yucky ones.
I will also try to video more. We have done it from time to time, but nothing very consistent. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[JBS]

This time of year is terrible...drop your lesson plan and do fun stuff. The kids brains are fried from school...this happens every year. More fun stuff...don't worry...you are coaching girls...this is what they do. They are using all their detail work on school...give them a few more weeks to adjust and work them back into it.

 

[coachmolly]

This time of year is terrible...drop your lesson plan and do fun stuff. The kids brains are fried from school...this happens every year. More fun stuff...don't worry...you are coaching girls...this is what they do. They are using all their detail work on school...give them a few more weeks to adjust and work them back into it.

Thanks so much for saying that! The realization sort of hit me last night that they are just easing back into school, have added an extra day of practice a week, and are coming 7.5 hours/week up from 5 over the summer (only came 3 hours/week last school year). So it is a huge adjustment. I have some fun ideas planned for today that I think will still be productive but also a break from just skills and routines. Maybe some trampoline time to work on split jumps, some different fun challenges (some silly, some more serious). They overlap with my pre-team group for 30 minutes today so maybe I will have teams of a "big" girl and a little one and do some team stuff.
Thanks so much for all of the great ideas!

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks again for all of the great feedback, I just wanted to give an update. I used a lot of ideas from this thread and we had a really great practice!
The first 30 minutes they are combined with pre-team and we did some conditioning disguised as games and team building which was productive but also really fun for both groups. When pre-team left the Bronze girls did a little conditioning (10 minutes or so until the floor cleared). On floor they worked on learning their routine, so lots of thinking. For tumbling I stuck to the stuff in their routine and when they did a handful of good passes, I let them move on to something a bit newer- ro-bhs for some, ro-bhsx2 for others, aerials for a few. We had one get her ro-bhs by herself and another get her aerial again which has been lost for a few weeks.

On beam I tried something new and put them in pairs. Each girl had to make 5 of each of the big skills in their beam routine that were passed off by their partner so they would hold each other accountable. I was really impressed by how seriously most of them took this! They paid lots of attention to what they were doing but also helping their partners out and encouraging each other.

We ended the practice with trampoline time to reward their hard work and I gave lots of praise for their efforts. Everyone left very happy and feeling successful. Thanks again for all of the great input! I will definitely keep using these ideas.