Parents Has the whole world gone mad?

[Taxidriver]

I don’t think it is a false assumption at all when it comes to physical skills. Which is a different beast then what most of us do at work.

Part of getting these skills is repetition. That’s how you build muscle memory.

If you have more opportunity in a week to do more reps it’s not unreasonable to expect it to become muscle memory sooner.

I weight train, sure there is an optimal way to train. But if I train less frequently it will take longer to build muscle.

There are many things where this applies. “If you don’t use it you lose it” My kid takes Mandarin lessons. She lives with non Mandarin speakers. She will take longer to acquire the language then kids who go home and speak with parents who know Mandarin. Simply because they use it more then she does.

Arithmetic drills they become memory the more drill you do. If you drill them multiple times a week you will get them quicker then once a week.

There are many factors that go into training. But no, I don’t think, it’s a false assumption at all.

I think it is false, whilst yes more hours will mean learning faster however double the amount of time does not mean twice as fast. As more hours generally mean longer sessions and towards the end of longer sessions concentration is and issue and fatigue starts to set in and your body also needs time to rest and recover.

To divert just a little I find it interesting that US parents like to say that school is number 1. I have caught myself doing this, I do not like to say this. I have an older son, 23, and I preached this to him. It did not take, he never liked school, I think the preaching hurt our relationship. School and Gym have somethings in common and for me, the most important is that you can not make your child love either, it must come from within.

I’m required by law to educate my kid. I hope she likes it and gets something out of it. It’s really great if she loves it. But I’m required to educate her.
There is no such requirement for gym.

Also she is unlikely to be doing gymnastics into adulthood. But she will likely need the basics of her education for what lies ahead for her.

So yes, here education is the priority.

I see education as important however I also see gymnastics as important, I try not to say one is more important than the other because I want my child to know I value what they do.
I never judge my kids by what grades they get and point out I’m only interested in effort grades as long as they are trying their hardest what more can I ask of them.
I also really value their gymnastics or other sports my kids do, the life skills they learn from them like determination, you just don’t learn in school.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I don’t think it is a false assumption at all when it comes to physical skills. Which is a different beast then what most of us do at work.

Part of getting these skills is repetition. That’s how you build muscle memory.

If you have more opportunity in a week to do more reps it’s not unreasonable to expect it to become muscle memory sooner.

I weight train, sure there is an optimal way to train. But if I train less frequently it will take longer to build muscle.

There are many things where this applies. “If you don’t use it you lose it” My kid takes Mandarin lessons. She lives with non Mandarin speakers. She will take longer to acquire the language then kids who go home and speak with parents who know Mandarin. Simply because they use it more then she does.

Arithmetic drills they become memory the more drill you do. If you drill them multiple times a week you will get them quicker then once a week.

There are many factors that go into training. But no, I don’t think, it’s a false assumption at all.

More hours can actually mean less progress!

Research shows that as the hours increase, so do the injuries. The assumption may be that the kids are stronger and more flexible, as they are training strength and flexibility more. But overuse injuries are one of the biggest issues with young gymnasts, as are acute injuries from tired athletes.

Not only this, more hours often means more repitition of mistakes. When a kid does 10 of a skill, they often get more out of it than doing 20. Once they hit a certain number (and it’s not really that high), then continued repitition results in less quality. Basically kids fatigue and their technique gets worse. Then they co tinge to practice with poor technique, then they get good at poor technique!

Recovery and rest is also an important part of strength and flexibility training and if it is neglected the gymnast will undermine their gains.

 

[LJL07]

My solution is to follow nobody on any social media. Literally the only gymnastics related person I follow is the balance beam situation, he is hilarious. I decided a long time ago that the way to keep sane is not to follow these kids, or their crazy gyms.

He IS hilarious. I’m putting myself on a behavior modification plan and unfollowing all of the gymnastics kids. And the leo brands. And the gyms. Currently two local gyms are in an Instagram posting war with their little ones. It’s funny but embarrassing all at the same time. I think it does breed insanity. You’re right.

 

[MuggleMom]

In terms of hours I think someone said it perfectly before its the law of diminishing returns at what points to the issues outweigh the gains with the higher hours? And I would venture to guess it varies by child as well but it would be too difficult to track/manage a customer program for every child. I think the its a good idea for the parents to keep their kids specific needs in mind when finding a program (if you have choices in your area) or working with you gym to maybe modify your program if needed. We have a parent at hour gym that is taking her daughter out early a couple days a week just because she doesn't want her home that late on school nights. She still pays full price but she is putting what her kid needs first so good for her and good for the gym to not penalize her for asking for that (put her in a different group etc).

I have been so tempted to join this facebook group but I am scared to see people I know in there--what will they think of me? what will I think of them lol.

 

[wandrewsjr]

My solution is to follow nobody on any social media. Literally the only gymnastics related person I follow is the balance beam situation, he is hilarious. I decided a long time ago that the way to keep sane is not to follow these kids, or their crazy gyms.

Every time a post or thread pops up critical of these Facebook groups or instagramers and the like, I think the same thing. Why follow and engage? Why give them the followers and clicks and views and fame that they desire?

 

[Flyaway]

My dd's former ballet teacher posted this article this week, and it speaks to the insta-insanity we've been talking about. Even though it's directed at young ballerinas, the same applies to gymnasts. We are living in an era of instant gratification and insta-gymmies, crazy hours, etc are a result of that.

At any rate, I found this article interesting in light of our conversation here.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...uined-instagram-says-russian-prima-ballerina/

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I think it is false, whilst yes more hours will mean learning faster however double the amount of time does not mean twice as fast. As more hours generally mean longer sessions and towards the end of longer sessions concentration is and issue and fatigue starts to set in and your body also needs time to rest and recover.

I did not say it was a linear correlation

More hours can actually mean less progress!

Research shows that as the hours increase, so do the injuries. The assumption may be that the kids are stronger and more flexible, as they are training strength and flexibility more. But overuse injuries are one of the biggest issues with young gymnasts, as are acute injuries from tired athletes.

Not only this, more hours often means more repitition of mistakes. When a kid does 10 of a skill, they often get more out of it than doing 20. Once they hit a certain number (and it’s not really that high), then continued repitition results in less quality. Basically kids fatigue and their technique gets worse. Then they co tinge to practice with poor technique, then they get good at poor technique!

Recovery and rest is also an important part of strength and flexibility training and if it is neglected the gymnast will undermine their gains.

In terms of hours I think someone said it perfectly before its the law of diminishing returns at what points to the issues outweigh the gains with the higher hours? .

Of course there are many factors. Of course there is a point where the hours can be too much. Of course there can be too little. Of course there is an optimum point of hours, reps, and rest. Of course all kids are different.

Yes to all of that. All true. And the fact remains it is also true that more repetitions in less time will likely mean the skill will be acquired quicker on a time line.

Its not one or the others, they are not mutually exclusive.

All things being equal, a kids who gets 4 rotations a week doing a specific skill is more likely to get the skill quicker than kids who do the same rotations 2 a week.

Back in the days of the kip. My kid went to less practices then her the rest of her team. She went 3 a week, they went 4. It is not at all surprising to me she was the last to get the kip. They were all drilled and trained the same way. Of course her having less rotations and practice was a factor. Perhaps not the sole factor but of course it was "a" factor.

Our gym practices 12 hours a week. It is absolutely not unreasonable to expect a 18-20 hour a week gym to score better (unless their training is a complete debacle). On a personal level, for me it makes our wins sweeter. They don't happen often but they happen. The kids at our gym sacrifice some points at meets and understand their skill acquisition curve is not as steep if they were perhaps at a different gym. They are getting solid training and they have the opportunity to do other things, music, other sports (we have kids who dive, do track), birthday parties etc... that elsewhere they might not be able to do. And of course it slows skills acquisition down.

And after years of being told you simply can't do "optional level" gymnastics without higher hours it seems rather funny to hear folks say more hours don't help.

 

[twinmomma]

I did not say it was a linear correlation





Of course there are many factors. Of course there is a point where the hours can be too much. Of course there can be too little. Of course there is an optimum point of hours, reps, and rest. Of course all kids are different.

Yes to all of that. All true. And the fact remains it is also true that more repetitions in less time will likely mean the skill will be acquired quicker on a time line.

Its not one or the others, they are not mutually exclusive.

All things being equal, a kids who gets 4 rotations a week doing a specific skill is more likely to get the skill quicker than kids who do the same rotations 2 a week.

Back in the days of the kip. My kid went to less practices then her the rest of her team. She went 3 a week, they went 4. It is not at all surprising to me she was the last to get the kip. They were all drilled and trained the same way. Of course her having less rotations and practice was a factor. Perhaps not the sole factor but of course it was "a" factor.

Our gym practices 12 hours a week. It is absolutely not unreasonable to expect a 18-20 hour a week gym to score better (unless their training is a complete debacle). On a personal level, for me it makes our wins sweeter. They don't happen often but they happen. The kids at our gym sacrifice some points at meets and understand their skill acquisition curve is not as steep if they were perhaps at a different gym. They are getting solid training and they have the opportunity to do other things, music, other sports (we have kids who dive, do track), birthday parties etc... that elsewhere they might not be able to do. And of course it slows skills acquisition down.

And after years of being told you simply can't do "optional level" gymnastics without higher hours it seems rather funny to hear folks say more hours don't help.

Ultimately, the number of hours is immaterial if the quality of the work isn't there. More hours often means more standing around.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

What would be the optimal coach to athlete ratio to ensure more reps and less standing around?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Ultimately, the number of hours is immaterial if the quality of the work isn't there. More hours often means more standing around.

Again, I clearly stated that.

And all things being EQUAL, optimal training, coach to gymnast ratio, same coaching, equal time standing and training. More reps (but not over done) will move skill acquisition along quicker.

 

[raenndrops]

I did not say it was a linear correlation
Of course there are many factors. Of course there is a point where the hours can be too much. Of course there can be too little. Of course there is an optimum point of hours, reps, and rest. Of course all kids are different.

Our coach has been told that 5.5 hours a week are needed to MAINTAIN skill level. We practice 7.5 hours a week (but some weeks they can come in a 4th day or use the 4th day as a make up if they miss a day) ... so 10 hours is possible some weeks.

 

[SMH]

He IS hilarious. I’m putting myself on a behavior modification plan and unfollowing all of the gymnastics kids. And the leo brands. And the gyms. Currently two local gyms are in an Instagram posting war with their little ones. It’s funny but embarrassing all at the same time. I think it does breed insanity. You’re right.

I just saw a 3 yr old ‘follow my journey at xxx gym’ insta-gymmie. I think I’ve had my fill of Instagram gymnastics....
I have a 3 yr old and the only journeys she’s taking are to preschool.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I just saw a 3 yr old ‘follow my journey at xxx gym’ insta-gymmie. I think I’ve had my fill of Instagram gymnastics....
I have a 3 yr old and the only journeys she’s taking are to preschool.

I was hoping mine would sleep through the night in her own bed at that age

 

[skschlag]

I was hoping mine would sleep through the night in her own bed at that age

RIght? And use the potty so he could go to preschool

 

[Aussie_coach]

What would be the optimal coach to athlete ratio to ensure more reps and less standing around?

Just like there is no optimal number of hours, there is also no optimal coach:gymnast ratio.

So much comes into play, the most important thing is the quality of the coach. But availability of equipment will be huge when it comes to limiting standing around time.

I find larger classes are often more productive than smaller classes. There is an energy with more kids, which can set a higher pace, if the coach manages it well it can increase productivity. Kids are also very influenced by each other, one person gets a skill and often others follow. More kids can mean more skills being achieved.

 

[PNWMtnDude]

I just saw a 3 yr old ‘follow my journey at xxx gym’ insta-gymmie. I think I’ve had my fill of Instagram gymnastics....
I have a 3 yr old and the only journeys she’s taking are to preschool.

LOL, I know right? That's just crazy. I've mostly resisted the instagymmie thing - only following my DD's gym and the senior elite from our gym. I occasionally do post photos of my DD doing gymnasticy moves, but it's only because I shot it on a 50 year old medium format film camera. I get annoyed with the youtube thing - "level 9 7 YO doing back tucks on high beam" (tongue in cheek example), like ok so? why make a point of stamping their age on it? bragging rights?

 

[MGymMom2024]

I read one that said her 6 year old, almost 7 year old, training level 4 practiced 30 hours a week plus 2 privates and TOPS training. So yes, I think the world has gone mad.

I honestly think that most of those saying this are new to this, with compulsory kids, and are including the hours their kids are doing homeschool. It sounds very much like "my daughter does more hours than yours..." type of bragging.

 

[sce]

I was hoping mine would sleep through the night in her own bed at that age

Right?!?

 

[e'smum]

In terms of hours I think someone said it perfectly before its the law of diminishing returns at what points to the issues outweigh the gains with the higher hours? And I would venture to guess it varies by child as well but it would be too difficult to track/manage a customer program for every child. I think the its a good idea for the parents to keep their kids specific needs in mind when finding a program (if you have choices in your area) or working with you gym to maybe modify your program if needed. We have a parent at hour gym that is taking her daughter out early a couple days a week just because she doesn't want her home that late on school nights. She still pays full price but she is putting what her kid needs first so good for her and good for the gym to not penalize her for asking for that (put her in a different group etc).

I have been so tempted to join this facebook group but I am scared to see people I know in there--what will they think of me? what will I think of them lol.

don't join! i did and i promptly quit. they are crazy and proud of it. meanwhile, i'm sane and know my kid isn't going to the Olympics nor does she want to do gymnastics in college anymore (she did originally and was on a specialized track in our gym for it). so we just want her to enjoy the sport and not feel any pressure.

 

[Outsider]

Being a year 3 teacher, trying to teach basic stuff to 7-year-olds every single day, I just don’t get it that parents make their children train over 15 hours a week at such a young age. Looking at the children I have thought over the years, even the ones that are now 10-12 and successful in the sport they do, all of them had a hard time staying focused for a ful day, or keeping their energy up during the week. By 3, most kids are roasted and often say things like ‘I don’t want to go anywhere anymore!’ Even those who enjoyed going to their training for another 2-3 hours. At 7, kids should have time to have play dates, have swimming lessons, try playing an instrument and maybe try out a sport or two if they feel like it. If they really enjoy a sport, training 2 times during the week and having a longer practice at a saturday or sunday is fine, but before the age of 10, children are just not capable of making the decision they really want to train 5 days a week. In my opinion, parents should protect their children to do so.

For the ‘they will never make it to the Olympics part’; Those who did, did not all follow an insane elite track either. And many of those who do, burnout before they even become junior elite...