How do you treat a child gymnast?

[all-aroundgirl]

I don't like making snap judgements on these things. Sure I wouldn't do anything like that to any of my gymnasts but how do we know that what we are seeing is the "norm"? How do we know it's common? Do we know the exact situation? Do we fully understand the culture? What if this is being filmed in a sensationalist way reminiscent of what was done to Parkettes? Having known many Chinese coaches and having talked to them about what THEY experienced, they never recounted anything like this. Do we really know the WHOLE story?

Just like being Devil's Advocate and not reacting to everything I see emotionally, heh.

They can hide what they don't want you to see. Just because they never recount anything like this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And yeah we might not know but seeing the situation can't you agree that it just isn't right. China can hide basically everything they want to.

 

[NYgymfan]

They can hide what they don't want you to see. Just because they never recount anything like this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And yeah we might not know but seeing the situation can't you agree that it just isn't right. China can hide basically everything they want to.

China does a very good job hiding a lot of stuff from its own people. But outside of China, there is freedom of the press and the internet isnt censored. So its more difficult for them to hide stuff from the outside world...once the press gets a hold of it, the Chinese government can't do diddly squat if its published outside of China.

 

[Blackie6]

KUDOS to Bog!

I couldn't have written my thoughts the way you did! That wasn't the first clip I've seen. Way before the Olympics even came around, I had already known how they treated their athletes. When I saw the coach kick the kids and pull another off the beam, my heart hurt & the look on those poor babies faces haunt me.

 

[lil_gymnast_lanny]

I thought that too,
China have somehow gone on to beleive that if you are picked for some sort of elite squad, you HAVE to do it. You dan't have any choice. Your oppinion comes last and the country comes first. If you decide to quit or you are expelled then you and your family will be disgraced
I think this is really sick. Everyone has a right to be an individual and make their own decisions. The Chinese have still got to learn that.
Also, Did anyone hear about one of the girls on the chinese olympics team Li Shanshan? Well for those who havn't this is what happened: She wasn't originally on the team for Beijing, not because she didn't make the cut gymnasticly, but because she had crooked teeth! It wasn't until someone payed for her dental work that she got onto the team.
I think that, that is TOTALLY unfair! Imagine putting in the hard work to get that far, and then be told that your teeth are crooked, so you can't compete!
I'll let you guys ponder that

 

[Ingymmom]

I thought that too,
China have somehow gone on to beleive that if you are picked for some sort of elite squad, you HAVE to do it. You dan't have any choice. Your oppinion comes last and the country comes first. If you decide to quit or you are expelled then you and your family will be disgraced
I think this is really sick. Everyone has a right to be an individual and make their own decisions. The Chinese have still got to learn that.

That may be true in some situations, but for some of the children in the video it is not. Some are apart of the famous li xiaoshuang school. A very prestigious, very desired school in China. The coach shown kicking the child (& no I don't condone kicking a child) is coach zheay - known as the toughest coach in the school. In this case he did not believe the child had the heart to learn the sport of gymnastics, that he was not serious enough. His actions are not ideal, but he has a reputation in the school to be this way.

Now the truth about this school is that parents travel for hours to bring their children to try out. The children do all go through a physical to make sure they fit the criteria of the school, and if the children are accepted the parents actually pay a lot of money for their children to attend. In China, they believe that they are spoiling their chldren and enabling them by keeping them home. In their culture they feel that this makes them to be better, more successful people, and are afraid if they don't get sent away from home their fate will be sealed and they are destined to be nothing.

*there was a comment made by a poster regarding a high suicide rate in Chinese athletes - I was wondering where the person got this information from?

*Some clips are also a part in the movie that bog mentioned and train at Lu Wan District Youth Athletic School in Shanghai. I know nothing about this school.

 

[NYgymfan]

Wow, thats even more sick then I thought if parents are paying to have their kids treated like this. Boy am I glad I live in a free country....

 

[lil_gymnast_lanny]

yea me too!
Were are really lucky here in australia!...I think most of you guys are in america (USA)
That's why the chinese are so damn good! becsue they are pushed really hard from ma really young age. Has anyone read Mao's Last dancer? That gives an insight of what china is like at in their international training programs.

 

[NYgymfan]

Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Japan, and most of Western Europe are all more or less free societies with decent economies. A lot of other countries are missing one or both of those. If you live in any of the places I named above, consider yourself lucky, because for the most part, you likely live a decent life without much government intervention. Even if you are one of the poorest Americans, you still have a lot more opportunities to move out of that situation then people in other countries, and you are at least given some basic food and shelter by the govt. In most other countries, you get nothing.

The USA was definitely one of the first free countries when it declared independence in 1776, and democracy without a monarchy was a VERY radical idea at the time. But in time, many other countries have followed. The US government is far from perfect, but it certainly beats a lot of the alternatives. I'm sure many people in other western countries feel the same way.

 

[Macabee]

I replied on the video comments post but then thought perhaps more people would be reading this one.

I had seen this one before. There are many sad ones concerning Chinese gymnastics training on youtube. Make you wonder how in the world those little girls can look so full of joy during competitions.

Take a look at this one:

YouTube - hard gymnastic training

Pay particular attention at 5:37 to about 5:40. Nasty.

 

[Billy]

I wonder what their injury rate is. I wonder how many young bodies they have completely broken and destroyed and sent back to parents as "not good enough."

 

[all-aroundgirl]

yea me too!
Were are really lucky here in australia!...I think most of you guys are in america (USA)
That's why the chinese are so damn good! becsue they are pushed really hard from ma really young age. Has anyone read Mao's Last dancer? That gives an insight of what china is like at in their international training programs.

Please refrain from swearing!

 

[all-aroundgirl]

Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Japan, and most of Western Europe are all more or less free societies with decent economies. A lot of other countries are missing one or both of those. If you live in any of the places I named above, consider yourself lucky, because for the most part, you likely live a decent life without much government intervention. Even if you are one of the poorest Americans, you still have a lot more opportunities to move out of that situation then people in other countries, and you are at least given some basic food and shelter by the govt. In most other countries, you get nothing.

The USA was definitely one of the first free countries when it declared independence in 1776, and democracy without a monarchy was a VERY radical idea at the time. But in time, many other countries have followed. The US government is far from perfect, but it certainly beats a lot of the alternatives. I'm sure many people in other western countries feel the same way.

The poorest of Americans are richer than the richest in Cambodia. We are very lucky.

 

[lil_gymnast_lanny]

oops
sorry laura
anyway...I hate how in china, it's the country's say first (if you want to do gymnastics etc) and your say last.

 

[gymdog]

The poorest of Americans are richer than the richest in Cambodia. We are very lucky.

What are you defining as "rich"? I find it hard to believe there is no ruling elite in Cambodia that would not define their standard of living as prosperous. Or does it have to meet our standard of prosperous to count?

Americans are lucky to have a relatively stable political system, yes. I doubt anyone would deny that and I've held off commenting until now but I think some of the comments on this thread about what Eastern cultures "need to learn" are ridiculous and patronizing. Do people really think that a society of one billion people is less capable of moral distinctions than their society? There is a difference between circumstances allowing for a greater abuse of standards of morality, and actually lacking the ability to conceptualize morality, which is what "need to learn" implies. We have these abuses in the US too, although you might be able to argue that due to various circumstances, they occur at a lower frequency. Think about the standards of morality this democracy was built on...do you think it was the people or the country's say first when it came to the trail of tears? The story we got about that...but it was for their own good. Sounds familiar.

 

[FlipsLeos]

I would be curious to see how many would quit, given a chance. I suspect the numbers would be considerably lower than we might imagine. The mentality in China is different from here, completely. I'm not saying it's right, not at all... just different from how we think.

I shudder to think of what gymnastics would be like here in North America if that's what our training was like. I cannot imagine knowingly allowing my child to go through that no matter how much they wanted to.

Kinda makes you thankful for what we all have, doesn't it?

 

[MdGymMom01]

Remember how during the Olympics gymnastics the commentators were saying that it is a new Romania now and no one wants to be "Nadia" anymore? You could totally see how the Romanian women's team was so much more laid back then previous olympic years and it looked like that were having more fun in Beijing. There were more smiles, and laughs and more kidding around. Romania used to be one of the toughest gymnastics training countries in the world in the 1990's. Now it is more "modernized" and the kids or women athletes realize that there is more to life than gymnastics 24/7. I guess the Romanians "wised up" so to speak. Good for them!!! You can still be extremely competitive and go to the Olympics and still have fun and enjoy life without beating up your body.

 

[all-aroundgirl]

What are you defining as "rich"? I find it hard to believe there is no ruling elite in Cambodia that would not define their standard of living as prosperous. Or does it have to meet our standard of prosperous to count?

Americans are lucky to have a relatively stable political system, yes. I doubt anyone would deny that and I've held off commenting until now but I think some of the comments on this thread about what Eastern cultures "need to learn" are ridiculous and patronizing. Do people really think that a society of one billion people is less capable of moral distinctions than their society? There is a difference between circumstances allowing for a greater abuse of standards of morality, and actually lacking the ability to conceptualize morality, which is what "need to learn" implies. We have these abuses in the US too, although you might be able to argue that due to various circumstances, they occur at a lower frequency. Think about the standards of morality this democracy was built on...do you think it was the people or the country's say first when it came to the trail of tears? The story we got about that...but it was for their own good. Sounds familiar.

Totally agree with you! And I'll correct myself. The richest in Cambodia would be considerered middle class really. Americans don't realize how spoiled we are. And I think the situation is sad but one, it could be worse, and two, there are greater problems to be worrying about. American is just as bad but it is not as seen. I have learned from expirence and have seen coaches being physically abusive and ***ually harrassing. But because of the culture we live in nobody notices because we are all to preoccupied in all the countries other matters, so those coaches simply get "dismissed" and can go about their ways and can take credit for things they had nothing to do with.

 

[All Chalked Up]

I am shocked. I always knew that it was bad, but not as bad as THAT. Those poor babies... did anyone notice the little one training in a camisole and a DIAPER!?

 

[monkeysmom]

I agree--sickening

I agree with the other posters. In seeing things like this, there is no way I can be neutral on the age-limit issue. We need age limits, and I support them and am glad they are in place. I personally would be OK with changing them by 6 mos. or a year from what exists now, but no more than that. The fact that we can't police them effectively in cheating countries doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it. We can't only think about kids that realize or come close to their dreams, as a society we need to care about all the kids, including ALL the kids in the sport of gymnastics. Even in the U.S., I've been told with a straight face by more than one person that my daughter was a late starter in gymnastics (she started at age six in kindergarten). Enough said. Our elite system seems to be dominated by Marta--what kind of system did she spend her formative years in with regard to little kids? Where does she fall/how does she feel these days on the age limit topic? I am making no judgement here whatsoever because I haven't researched the background from way back when, I'm just curious. PS I realize I have no vote or voice whatsoever in the age limit debate, just stating my opinion.

 

[EmmasMommy]

I didn't see the video, but what I've heard is bad enough. The laws in every country on this sort of thing vary widely. Our own country had some pretty crazy rules back in the day, too, but things have calmed a bit. (I believe it's now only legal to hit your kid if you are the parent, though I guess it's still allowed in schools in some states). Some states have age limits that even the US does not. (For example, ages 2-12 I think. Younger or older than that and you can't hit them). Other countries have banned hitting altogether (for example, Sweden). Some countries allow the use of objects and some do not. Some countries allow what our country considers downright abuse. I personally am against hitting children at all, in any context to any degree, but that is my person belief. And I try to keep that in mind. My culture (American) on the whole does not agree with me any more than they agree with the Chinese culture on the whole. Everyone is going to draw their line somewhere, and if we are going to accept it at a certain level, I don't feel comfortable saying what that level should be. That said, I don't think that level should be kicking kids during gymnastics training. They care about sports more than they carry about the people who play them, and that is deeply disheartening.