Parents How much time does your young athlete spend training?

[Smile :)]

I asked all the team girls what they have for breakfast on meet days. It turns out that the girls that have pancakes consistently score higher than the girls who eat eggs

Hmm maybe that is why my little sister loves pancakes. (Or maybe she just thinks they taste really good--my guess--actually my husband became her hero because he took her to get pancakes after a rather disappointing gymnastics meet before she lived with us. I guess he should have taken her before the meet.)

 

[mariposa]

While your statement would undoubtedly be true of most gymnastics programs, it happens that my child is coached by someone who has unusual expertise in optimally conditioning gymasts, as that was the subject of his Ph.D. thesis.

Which really makes your DDs experience incomparable to MOST gymnasts in typical gymnastics programs. How many coaches out there have Ph.D.'s related to physical sports training? Probably very few.

While I would LOVE for my DD to be able to go to the gym less hours, there is no such program available in our area. I called several gyms that were close enough to our home to consider and they were all within 1 hour of each other for L4 hours. We are at a small gym with a pretty big team, which means a lot of standing around waiting for turns, etc.

I also bet that most of the parents here would love to be able to have their child train less hours with the same results, but it just isn't always an option.

 

[Smile :)]

I also bet that most of the parents here would love to be able to have their child train less hours with the same results, but it just isn't always an option.

I think this is one of those areas where sometimes things are blessings in disguise. The gym my sister is at is basically the only option unless we move. But it is also filled under capacity especially at the upper levels. I guess gymnastics is just not big in this area. Before she lived with us she was at a larger gym that had a track record with elites. Now she's training less than she was before, and still getting new skills so I think we just got lucky on this. Her coaches do seem to emphasize conditioning/strength over skills though which I think for her is great because I think that is giving her the ability to not just get through things but get through them well. For younger kids they probably do not progress as quickly as they would at other gyms (whether that is because they do less hours or because they focus a lot on preparing them for skills more than chasing them outright I don't know). I think it is a slightly different philosophy but if you live here they are really the only game in town or in any kind of reasonable driving distance. So you buy into their philosophy, opt out of gymnastics, or move.

*Disclaimer: As I've gotten to understand things more I actually really think her coaches are good people, and seem to be focusing on safety and health. If I thought this was a toxic situation she would be opting out (and I suppose we could discuss as a family whether moving was a viable option). *

 

[bpatient]

While I would LOVE for my DD to be able to go to the gym less hours, there is no such program available in our area. I called several gyms that were close enough to our home to consider and they were all within 1 hour of each other for L4 hours. We are at a small gym with a pretty big team, which means a lot of standing around waiting for turns, etc.

I also bet that most of the parents here would love to be able to have their child train less hours with the same results, but it just isn't always an option.

I think you’ve pointed out a particularly important issue related to long training hours. Here's what Dr. Bill Sands, who has studied the issue for years, has to say: "The optimum training of children is perhaps the most important problem facing contemporary gymnastics for women. . . . The typical gymnastics coach in the US has a college degree, but no formal training in coaching, child development, injury prevention, injury rehabilitation, conditioning, periodisation, or many other important aspects of work with child gymnasts." [Sands WA. Injury Prevention in Women's Gymnastics. Sports Medicine 2000;30(6):359-373]

Like any field, gymnastics has precious few innovators; among the last were the Eastern bloc coaches (I suppose including the Karolyis) who decades ago began training very young gymnasts for very long hours. That practice produced a small number of extremely successful gymnasts; as to the rest, I recall reading an interview with a (Romanian?) coach who said something to this effect: “Our gymnasts work very hard for long hours because they know that their alternative is to become migrant agricultural workers in a richer country.â€￾ I doubt that the children of the readers of this board face that unfortunate either-or situation.

Most US coaches, at least according to Dr. Sands, are very far behind the curve: They are not only ignorant of the science that supports gymnastics training, they lack the education necessary to understand the information that has been available for many years. Their recourse is to train gymnasts the way that they themselves were trained, which is essentially the way that their own coaches were trained. (I say this as a scientist; I could never develop a successful small business such as a gymnastics center, as the skill sets are quite different!)

Maybe what you want—what most parents of gymnasts want—are coaches who try to keep up with the advances in science, rather than coaches who continue to train their charges using decades-old techniques. It's very easy to mandate longer and longer training hours, but it's difficult to come up with ways to achieve reasonable goals for most children in reasonable training hours—that requires much more thought from more innovative coaches.

Perhaps parents should seek out such coaches. Dr. Sands also wrote this: "One of the most mportant functions of a parent [in the context of gymnastics] is the intelligent selection and support of a good coach. Good coaches read and study texts like this one [Scientific Aspect of Women's Gymastics--has your daughter's coach read it?] Good coaches are open to new ideas and communication. . . . By being aware of how gymnastics works, parents can be better members of the gymnastics 'family' and serve their daughters more completely and intelligently." [Sands, WA in Scientific Aspects of Women's Gymnastics. Sands WA, Caine DJ, Borms J eds. Karger. 2003.]

 

[gymnut1]

Her coaches do seem to emphasize conditioning/strength over skills though which I think for her is great because I think that is giving her the ability to not just get through things but get through them well. For younger kids they probably do not progress as quickly as they would at other gyms (whether that is because they do less hours or because they focus a lot on preparing them for skills more than chasing them outright I don't know). I think it is a slightly different philosophy

Our gym is like this too - less hours for younger girls, more preps and conditioning, no uptraining, slower skills but our higher level girls have very good technique and their skills look lovely. It is a different philosophy.

We are expected to keep even the 6 year olds working continuously throughout a session. The idea is not to waste a minute in the gym. No more than one ever waiting in a queue. The rest have conditioning drills at the side. Children are encouraged (but not forced) to stretch and condition at home.

Different things are right for different families but sometimes you have to go with what is available to you and support that wholeheartedly and make it work for you and your child.

 

[Billy]

Ah, well.... my DD will be adding a 4th day of practice beginning in December, for a total of 16 hours per week. She wants to do it and she is the one who asked the coach if she could. I also know that the coach would not allow her to do it if she didn't think DD was ready. Further, they have cut another gymnast's hours back because she wasn't ready. And as DD home schools, I can keep a close eye on how things are going and how she's handling it. And lastly, as this is a home schooled training group, DD is home for dinner every night and has plenty of family time, play time and every weekend off (except for meets) so the increased hours shouldn't be a problem.

 

[TeamDad]

Hi shawn,

What are your goals in gymnastics? I know some families who's daughters homeschool while they are in Broadway shows, also a few who are ballerinas, and this is their chosen path. Is gymnastics your chosen path for your DD?

 

[mariposa]

Hi shawn,

What are your goals in gymnastics? I know some families who's daughters homeschool while they are in Broadway shows, also a few who are ballerinas, and this is their chosen path. Is gymnastics your chosen path for your DD?

Not Shawn, but we are also a homeschooling family, but we were homeschoolers before DD was a gymnast, so one thing has nothing to do with the other. We are homeschoolers for many many reasons, but not because of gym.

For our family, DD couldn't BE a gymnast (at least not competitive, she could do rec) if she did school, as I personally can't imagine my kid being away from me all day and then for an additional 10 hours a week, but I am a little weird that way. LOL.

I think someday, many of us might have regrets about letting our DDs be in the gym so many hours, many of us will be still happy about it and many of us won't even be in the sport long enough for it to have to big of an effect. We all make choices and I would think that most of us have researched it, know the risks and benefits and have decided to take the risks while hoping that our kids also reap some benefits.

 

[Billy]

Hi shawn,

What are your goals in gymnastics? I know some families who's daughters homeschool while they are in Broadway shows, also a few who are ballerinas, and this is their chosen path. Is gymnastics your chosen path for your DD?

Actually this is DD's chosen path, I'm just helping her make it happen. She was way ahead of the class in school and spending a lot of time waiting for other kids to catch up. Meanwhile, gym was taking up all her evening hours and making her always very tired. So, we fixed the school and the gym problems with home schooling. Now her education can progress at her speed, as can her gymnastics, all while getting to eat dinner with the family every night.

 

[Tim_Dad]

Those are great points RBW, But I'd find it hard to accept that at least the head coaches aren't keeping abreast in modern training techniques. I mean, this is thier job. I have to believe they do it because they love it more then a paycheck. But I do find it surprizing how many aren't (at the very least), USAG saftey certified. I would think that would be a prerequisite to becoming a 'head coach'. I can't imagine what gym's pay for insurance. It's got to be a substantial amount.

Now, while I'm certainly not qualified to make any distinctions between coaches or what methods they use, there is an area that I do know - stretching! And from what I can tell, stretching 'scientifically' isnt being practiced. Not our gym, not the YMCA, Not is HS athletics, etc. It's pretty much 'what they always did', so they continue doing it the same ol way.

For example, our gym only practices static stretching (such as splits, straddle, back and hamsting stretches) before skills training, and only after a quick warm up.

It's been found that limiting static stretches before a workout will only warm and exersize the muscle, but it does little to increase range of motion (i.e Stretch them!). Dynamic stretching, such as twists and leg lifts, etc, are better pre-workout, with static, and isometric stretches being the MOST beneficial AFTER the workout when the muscles are tired. The goal is to stretch muscle - and NOT connective tissue. If one puts too much pressure on muscles, the muscle will 'fight back' (and often win), diverting the stretch to the connective tissues instead. But when the muscles are tired, They are more elastic, stretch more, and increase range of motion.

When I asked one of the coaches why they don't do much "cool down" stretching, they simply said, they just never do. So tradition, as RBW points out, does play a key role in training.

In the mean time, I've been encouraging Nastia to do her static stretches after class while she's still warm in addition to the pre-workout warm up. Even she now understands that they are MUCH easier to do when your tired and her range of motion is dramtically increased during the stretch.

Believe it or not - when I was in my mid 20's and very involved with Tae Kwon do, I used to be able to do a full elevated straddle.

 

[Blackie6]

As a pre-teamer (5 yrs) my DD went 4 hours a week. As a L4 (6/7)she now goes about 11 hours a week. We are in meet season now so when we compete on Sat we miss the 4 hr practice so sometimes it is only 7 hrs/week. I think our L5's do about 15 hrs/week and not sure what our L7's, 8's, 9's and 10's do.

In our area (NJ) we are about in the middle for the hours. A girl who left our gym for another, does 20hrs as L6 and she is 8yrs old. I think that is insane, but it's just my own personal opinion.

 

[melmonette]

Emily(9) trains a scheduled 14 hours at the gym for level 5 Monday, Wednesday and Saturdays.
But she goes and works out on her own on Tuesday and thursday for 2 hours each when Madison(level 3) is at practice. She even conditions on her own
Plus she will go to open gym for another 1.5 hours on Saturday after practice. She basically spends 7:30-1:30 at the gym on Saturday and loves it.
Madison, my level 3, is 4 hours a week total. She is 6 years old so I think it is perfect for her.

 

[gymnut1]

Emily(9) trains a scheduled 14 hours at the gym for level 5 Monday, Wednesday and Saturdays.
But she goes and works out on her own on Tuesday and thursday for 2 hours each when Madison(level 3) is at practice. She even conditions on her own
Plus she will go to open gym for another 1.5 hours on Saturday after practice. She basically spends 7:30-1:30 at the gym on Saturday and loves it.
Madison, my level 3, is 4 hours a week total. She is 6 years old so I think it is perfect for her.

Emily sounds very dedicated - can I just ask who is responsibly for her when she is 'working out' on her own. Does she join another group/ coach and is she fully insured if she has an accident? I only ask as it seems so unusual - but then we don't have open gym either in the UK. Perhaps this is usual too in America LOL. I couldn't let my 8 year old do gym without a coach - she managed to fall over walking off the floor last week!

 

[bpatient]

Those are great points RBW, But I'd find it hard to accept that at least the head coaches aren't keeping abreast in modern training techniques. . . . Now, while I'm certainly not qualified to make any distinctions between coaches or what methods they use, there is an area that I do know - stretching! And from what I can tell, stretching 'scientifically' isnt being practiced. Not our gym, not the YMCA, Not is HS athletics, etc. It's pretty much 'what they always did', so they continue doing it the same ol way.

Yes, I think you see what I meant. However, I didn’t intend my assessment to be as harsh as it seemed when I reread it; I rely on Bill Sand’s comments, since I have essentially no knowledge of what head coaches at gymnastics clubs do or do not know (although like you I think that the general trend seems not to reflect my knowledge of my own area of interest). Dr. Sands pointed out that while coaches are expert in their very limited field, they may be woefully deficient in related areas that could affect gymnastics training. I recall an extensive series of posts on a college gymnastics board in which forum members (parents, not coaches) disclosed the educational background of college coaches; as I recall, none of the NCAA coaches mentioned had a background that I inferred would do much to help them to understand the gymnastics-related fields that Dr. Sands cited (injury prevention, conditioning, etc.) although I have no doubt that those respected coaches are quite expert in teaching high-level gymnastics skills.


I think that is limiting, but that sort of limitation is certainly not unique to gymnastics. For example, my wife once ran a small study to determine what it would take to convince physicians outside of her specialty to follow the consensus guidelines for diagnosis and treatment of a particular disease; the answer, unfortunately, was “much more than you’d hope”—and that was in a field where the practitioners are encouraged, expected, and even required to keep up with recent advances to maintain licensure.

My own limited experience is reflected in some of the responses in this thread which suggest that parents of young gymnasts do not hold head coaches to a particularly high standard when they choose to enroll their kids for hours each week in a particular program. When we moved to a new city as my child began training for Level 4, I recall being impressed that a particular gym had repeatedly produced athletes who scored well in the compulsory levels and that the training hours were, by and large, in line with other gyms in the area. I thoroughly ignored the issues that I’ve come to consider more important, such as those cited by Dr. Sands. I would ask very different questions now.

However, coaches do what they need to do, and if parents are willing to have their children devote long hours to the sport, many coaches are certainly capable of training them to be good gymnasts, or even very good gymnasts if they train enough. I think those coaches are also capable of doing more, but they will change slowly, if at all, only if parents demand it.

 

[Tim_Dad]

Gymnut, speaking for our gym only, Open Gym Hours on saturday are available but are limited to the number of coaches and assistants on the floor supervising. I beleive the ratio is typically 5:1 students to coaches. They don't take any more 'walk-in's' after this number has been met, so it's very much a 1st come, first served basis.

When Nastia wants to do open gym time, it's usually for about 2 hours, and we have to get there no later then 8 am, or she'll miss her spot.

One of the nice things about open gym is timing. If we go to open gym on a holiday weekend -- it's surprizingly sparce with students. It's almost like getting a private lesson for the $7 per hour fee. But again, it's hit and miss.

I also found out today that all head coaches per level are required to have USAG saftey certification. This apparently is required by the insurance carrier, as well as the gym owner. It was certainly nice to learn that! Amazing the things I learn, just by asking.

 

[melmonette]

Emily sounds very dedicated - can I just ask who is responsibly for her when she is 'working out' on her own. Does she join another group/ coach and is she fully insured if she has an accident? I only ask as it seems so unusual - but then we don't have open gym either in the UK. Perhaps this is usual too in America LOL. I couldn't let my 8 year old do gym without a coach - she managed to fall over walking off the floor last week!

The girls on the team get to work out anytime the gym is open and their are coaches on the floor. She can work out with the level 6-10s there if she wants too but she never wants to join them so she just works out with another level 5 whose sister is a level 6 and there on those nights too.
Emily is v ery dedicated for sure

 

[krazykidzmom]

DD trains about 25 hours a week....11 years level 10

 

[kristilyn73]

One thing I love about gymnastics is that it teaches time management. I am a manager at my job and I get frustrated when I see others wasting time or not prioritizing. My DD is a pro at doing what she needs to do, when she needs to do it.

Beetle is a L8, she just turned 13 and is in 7th grade. She currently trains 18 hours per week. Currently she trains from 4 - 8 on Monday & Friday. If she has homework she can do it before practice or after practice on Monday. Friday isnt an issue since it is the weekend.

Tuesday & Thursday she trains from noon - 5:00. She leaves school early, we have been able to put her core classes in the morning, she does independent study for Health and receives phy ed credit for practice. She misses Band and geography. She knows that grades come first, she is on the honor roll at school, 1 B last quarter.. I Cant complain. Of course she has hours in the evening to do homework.

Time with Friends??? I have to push her more into doing things with her "school friends." She would rather be with her "gym friends." I want to make sure that she isnt missing out on anything. She likes her "school friends' I just dont think she can relate to them as well. For instance, she is not so much interested in talking about boys or gossiping about other girls..

With her day practice schedule, our family meals can happen, she can be with her little brother and sister at night, she can watch Project Runway with me at night and she can still achieve her gymnastics goals. Right now we are pretty lucky.. lets talk again when she hits High School..

Very interesting thread btw - I like to see how other gyms do things. Our gym has always been one of having a low pass up score and gettting girls to optionals quickly.. I kind of wish we were told to spend 2 years in some levels to get those mid 9's.. but I dont think Beetle would have stuck it out.. her second year of L7 was hard and when she was faced with a THIRD year of 7?? you would have thought it was the end of the world.. she didnt see it as an opportunity to score in the top 3 in meets.

Beetle isnt about the uber high scores.. she is about the new skills and challenges. She will finish in the middle of the pack of most meets.. but as long as she doesnt fall - she is fine with it.... and therefore I am fine with it..

 

[Emma's mom]

My DD is 7 years old and a level 5. She trains 3 days a week for a total of 12 hours. We are lucky enough to live close to school and I scoop her up, get her changed and fed and we do homework if she has any before going to the gym. Lucky for us, second graders do not have much homework here and she is very bright so we get through what she does have very quickly. As a L4 she did 10 hours.

 

[Momto3]

My own limited experience is reflected in some of the responses in this thread which suggest that parents of young gymnasts do not hold head coaches to a particularly high standard when they choose to enroll their kids for hours each week in a particular program. When we moved to a new city as my child began training for Level 4, I recall being impressed that a particular gym had repeatedly produced athletes who scored well in the compulsory levels and that the training hours were, by and large, in line with other gyms in the area. I thoroughly ignored the issues that I’ve come to consider more important, such as those cited by Dr. Sands. I would ask very different questions now.

I absolutely agree. I would want to know if conditioning/stretching are supervised to insure good technique. I would ask if conditioning/stretching are a focus at each and every practice no matter how many hours they practice. And I wouldn't be satisfied to just ask, I would spend at least 2/3 weeks watching various practices. I may even ask how many gymnasts are presently injured in their program.