Parents How much time does your young athlete spend training?

[Momto3]

When I asked one of the coaches why they don't do much "cool down" stretching, they simply said, they just never do. So tradition, as RBW points out, does play a key role in training.

In the mean time, I've been encouraging Nastia to do her static stretches after class while she's still warm in addition to the pre-workout warm up. Even she now understands that they are MUCH easier to do when your tired and her range of motion is dramtically increased during the stretch.

I love you dedication. I applaud your focus on educating yourself about gymnastics and trying to help your dd. But what happens if "in the mean time" doesn't stop? How much time should parents have to devote to "monitoring" or "correcting" issues that are occuring in the gym related to the training program the coaches are using.
After nearly 5 years of dd attending practices, I have come to the conclusion that this should not be necessary. What are we really paying for? If we ourselves have to become experts on gymnastics, aren't we setting a low expectation of our coaches? I believe there are coaches who do educate themselves and hold themselves to a high standard. Unfortunately, they may not bring all the "hardware" that we as parents can be sucked in by.

 

[Tim_Dad]

How much time should parents have to devote to "monitoring" or "correcting" issues that are occuring in the gym related to the training program the coaches are using.

My answer: As much as needed, for as long as it's needed.

Mom... I understand your frustrations. I really do. I even agree in part. But reality - is what it is. ( I know you hate that answer...because I do too!)

This almost reminds me of when I hear things like "Why aren't the school teachers doing their job and teaching my child everything she needs to know!" Answer -- because they can't. Plain and simple. It’s hard to swallow, but it is what it is.

I've always felt education in general requires concentrated efforts of the student, the parent, and the teacher (or coach). The teacher (or coach) needs to provide the program, the materials, and show us the way. The student must practice - as much as needed - to master each skill, based on the teachers (or coaches) training and recommendations. The parent must provide tutoring when needed (or able), and encourage the student to remain focused on 'whatever' is needed to succeed. In gymnastics, this is tough because we can't (shouldn't) do skills training at home. But conditioning ... we certainly can.

No teacher or coach (unless paid extremely well) will hand-hold a student or provide the perfect balance in training and conditioning. The effort and accomplishment is on the students shoulders. After 5 years of gym...your DD certainly knows the value of conditioning. But if she's like 99% of the other girls... she likes the skills training more. So naturally, that's where the time and practice is spent.

Stay with me...I have a point in here somewhere.

Bottom line: If you like your gym's coaches for the skills they teach, but not the conditioning program, you have two choices. Find a gym that does both equally and to you and your DD's satisfaction, understanding that progress will be slower; - OR have DD take on some of the conditioning roles at home, or the YMCA, etc, leaving the gym time for skills development. She needs both. We both agree on this. If she's not getting enough conditioning at the gymnastics club for her own needs...she'll need to get it somewhere else. I wish this wasn't the case...but again... It is what it is.




Gymnasts are going to get hurt no matter how much training they have.
- Kerri Strug

 

[Momto3]

My answer: As much as needed, for as long as it's needed.

Mom... I understand your frustrations. I really do. I even agree in part. But reality - is what it is. ( I know you hate that answer...because I do too!)


No teacher or coach (unless paid extremely well) will hand-hold a student or provide the perfect balance in training and conditioning. The effort and accomplishment is on the students shoulders. After 5 years of gym...your DD certainly knows the value of conditioning. But if she's like 99% of the other girls... she likes the skills training more. So naturally, that's where the time and practice is spent.



Gymnasts are going to get hurt no matter how much training they have.
- Kerri Strug

I really don't expect the coaches to hand-hold my daughter. She will do whatever her coaches direct her to do. Including any amount of conditioning they would require. She has never complained about conditioning since beginning gymnastics.
I think you are missing my point and categorzing my complaint as someone who always thinks the system is wrong and that is why my daughter is struggling. My point is that general training information and injury prevention articles, education is available to all coaches. The internet is full of info, etc and USAG hosts yearly educational activities etc. I cannot accept that a coach cannot be held somewhat responsible for educating themselves and setting up a program with this information in mind.
I am not saying that they can prevent all injuries. That is not my issue. I am saying that they should be held to a certain level of expertise, education and this should be a reasonable expectation of parents and athletes.

 

[bpatient]

I cannot accept that a coach cannot be held somewhat responsible for educating themselves and setting up a program with this information in mind. . . . I am not saying that they can prevent all injuries. That is not my issue. I am saying that they should be held to a certain level of expertise, education and this should be a reasonable expectation of parents and athletes.

Voting with your checkbook could be the most effective way to bring about such change. For a variety of reasons, though, parents don’t demand that expertise. Of course many families don’t have the luxury of choosing between several gymnastics programs within a reasonable drive from their homes. More importantly, I think, most parents, like most coaches, have little knowledge of subjects like injury prevention in child and adolescent athletes—and most of us don’t know enough to ask appropriate questions. For example, most parents (like most coaches) don’t understand that the trend towards longer training hours for the majority of gymnasts (not just elite gymnasts) is quite likely to produce chronic overuse injuries in addition to the too-common, acute sport-specific injuries, and that the surest way to avoid overuse injury is to limit training hours to avoid overuse.

Unfortunately, though, gyms clearly compete for your dollars in ways far removed from how up-to-date the head coach is with current knowledge in the field; for example, it may be more important to be able to attract kids to a recreational program that's essentially indistinguishable from programs in other gyms than it is to keep up with advances in motor learning techniques, or a coach might give more weight to producing high-scoring compulsory-level kids (and thus, perhaps, impress the families of potential beginning gymnasts) than to the use of reduced training hours during the adolescent growth spurt and modern injury prevention techniques to keep those kids in the sport past middle school. If you think in evolutionary terms, if you select for showy tail feathers, you may not end up with a bird that is well-suited for flight.

 

[MdGymMom01]

I'm a little late responding to this thread...but here goes...

My dd will turn 10 in January, is competng Level 4, and trains 3 days in the gym for a total of 11 hours. She also does one hour a week of ballet at a dance studio. Level 5's at our gym train 12 hours a week and I think the Level 6-9's train between 12-16 hrs.

She seems to be able to balance her schoolwork/gymtime/and freetime pretty well.

 

[Tim_Dad]

I think you are missing my point and categorzing my complaint as someone who always thinks the system is wrong and that is why my daughter is struggling. My point is that general training information and injury prevention articles, education is available to all coaches. The internet is full of info, etc and USAG hosts yearly educational activities etc. I cannot accept that a coach cannot be held somewhat responsible for educating themselves and setting up a program with this information in mind.

Point not missed. My response was simply poorly worded, and I offer my apologies if you feel it was directed at you personally. That wasnt my intention.

I agree with you... 99%! Right up until the part of being held "responsible". Accountable yes. I think head coaches, at a minimum, should be up to date on training and conditioning skills and methods. Isn't this their career? These skills then should get passed down to asst. coaches so that the training program is up to date, and not based on the "that's how we always did it before" way of thinking.

My point was that - since many don't- we as parents can and should take steps to educate ourselves, to help our kids. Should we have too? No, probably not. So whatif we don't? We can take out kids elsewhere and most likely pay more. OR we can do the monitoring/training ourselves, or we can jsut expect the coach to know what to do...possibly risking injury. What other options are there?

My expectations are that, with a home conditioning program on top of the gym's program, Nastia will be stronger, less prone to injury, and better prepared to excel at her program - at no additional cost to me - then she could do in her gym program alone. Just as, if she's struggling in school with Math, taught the 'old way', there is little I can do but help her understand it so she doesn't fail. There are few alternatives, even though there are better ways to teach math.

Anyway.. that's my thinking.

 

[Momto3]

Tim_Dad:

I apologize if I am coming off too overbearing in my comments. Over the past 5 years I have become quite vocal in my opinions on certain aspects of gym. LOL

Perhaps accountability is a more appropriate word to use.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I also helped my dd with certain things at home. She achieved her splits, seated press, etc at home in the living room. She got her dad to put up a bar for conditioning, etc. I have helped her stretch to try to prevent the very issue she is dealing with now.
My experience has been that there comes a time when they will want to leave gym at the gym. As they excel, the demands from the coaches can increase and they won't be as excited to "get the extra help".
I know, I sound negative don't I. I am just sharing our experience. My opinions are not based on negative outcomes for my dd. She started late in this sport at 8 on preteam in summer of 2004. She had good success with her skill development/awards going from L5 in fall of 2005 to L7 by January 2007. Scored high 35/low 36 range. Did quite well at state meets.
I have become more and more frustrated as I see her and fellow teammates become injured and either have their injuries trivialized, ignored or not dealt with to the point that it drives them away from the sport.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Momto3--you have some really good points. I totally agree with your statement of, "My experience has been that there comes a time when they will want to leave gym at the gym. As they excel, the demands from the coaches can increase and they won't be as excited to "get the extra help". And I think a lot of this "realization" does come from personal experience.

Based on my experience, I was a "rather involved cheer mom" last year with my dd who was cheering for a very competitive cheer program in the state. She was a flyer, and a first year flyer at that, so there was a lot of stretching and practicing the different positions for the stunts and conditioning done at home. By the end of that year my dd was so tired, frazzled and drained that I did a lot of re-evaluating on how involved I wanted to be when she switched to gymnastics.

She trains about 11 hrs a week at the gym, spread over 3 days plus one hour of ballet, so there isn't much conditioning or practicing that she does at home. If she wants to go down to the family room and work on the beam or the mat, I let her initiate that. And lately she hasn't really initiated any "extra practicing/playtime". I keep the gym talk to a minimum in the car on the way home and at home and I let her start and initiate any in-depth conversations about gymnastics. IMHO this seems to be working because she is so much happier and confident now as opposed to last year.

In my opinion, there does come a time where "extra practicing/conditioning/stretching at home" can actually do more harm than good when it comes to the kids' positive mental outlook on the sport and motivation. There is a very delicate balance between many aspects of gymnastics, including the physical and mental, that need to be maintained in order to keep young athletes motivated, successful, healthy and happy.

 

[gymmomntc2e6]

Great advice MdGymMom -

I have also stopped most talk of gym at home. Anything is generally initiated by DD. For a while the constant cartwheels and handstands through the house had stopped. They have now returned (ok, well not right now w/ cast and all but.........)

We also stopped talking about the meets on the way to the meet. She seems much happier and more relaxed and had a great season.

 

[Billy]

My DD is also moving out of the constant practicing at home. But, I expected that she would as she advanced through the levels. She does still walk through her routines and poses (nothing like doing beam on the bench and full turns on the floor while discussing social studies!) but she doesn't spend as much time on the equipment in the basement as she used to. Then again, she is at the gym 3 days a week, soon to increase to 4. She is also getting into skills that she can't really do at home and she's getting into the skills (and the age!) where Mom doesn't know as much as she used to.

But her enthusiasm is definitely not diminishing. She actually used gymnastics in a logical argument the other day. I told her to be careful using my scissors. She asked me "are gymnasts careful?" I said usually, yes. She said "Am I a gymnast?" I said yes. She says "Then you don't have to tell me to be careful!" LOL.... And so it begins....

 

[gymjourneymom]

Well said MdGymMom01! I think you have to have faith your DD's coaches & their skills & abilities or your not at the right gym. As a parent, I am DD's biggest cheerleader...I don't wish to coach her for skills or conditoning at home. DD is level 7, practicing 15hrs/week. She's been a state champ as level 5&6. Although, so is very talented she constantly struggles with fear issues on new skills. She gets over them, with lots of practice & emotional encourgement. Home is her place to decompress...not drill more conditoning in to her. Yes, you could always do "more"...but should you? Does she really need you too or want you too? What are HER gymnastic goals? I personally think, a balanced life is the key. Our job, as parents, is to help THAT happen. I think it's easy for parents to become too "invested" in their DD's gymnastic progress. Please remember it is "her" sport....not yours. If you become too "invested" in her training. She may feel she "needs" to progress at a certain rate, get a certain skill or win a certain placement at a meet...all to please her parents. My DD does this b/c she loves the sport...she doesn't do it for me. I wouldn't ever want to send her any other message, even by mistake(with all good intentions), JMHO.

 

[Gymnasticsgirl521]

DD is a 5 year old Level 4 and she trains on a regular schedule 10 hours a week. This past month they have been training 13 hours a week. This is not counting any extra practices or open gym. On the average DD is doing another 2 hours of open gym which is 50/50 play time.

For Dec we are going to average closer to the 13 hours because she is preparing for a holiday show. I know a few of our Level 4's have been going 5 days a week in preperation of their first meet.

 

[Ingymmom]

Our gym:

Level 4 - 10 hours per week
Level 5/6 - 16 -18 hours per week (the gymnasts are allowed to go or stay for the last hour of practice on Fri & Sat, most stay)
L7 - L9 - 20 hours, but have the option for up to 25 hours if they want.
L10 - 25 hours

Our girls also have the option of doing shared private lessons each week. Some do every week, some every other week & some don't at all.

All of our girls seem to balance everything very well & everyone of them is excited to get into the gym .