WAG how old is the youngest female L10 gymnast?

[Flyaway]

It doesn't bother me on a personal level. I'm just trying to think critically about the culture of gymnastics and examine what drives the notion that younger = better when it comes to level progression. It's multi-layered and obviously there will be no one size fits all response. I just find these kinds of discussions interesting.

 

[SMH]

It doesn't bother me on a personal level. I'm just trying to think critically about the culture of gymnastics and examine what drives the notion that younger = better when it comes to level progression. It's multi-layered and obviously there will be no one size fits all response. I just find these kinds of discussions interesting.

I was typing but you said it better than I was, so I will just second this. It’s an interesting discussion.

 

[Flicfliclay]

It doesn't bother me on a personal level. I'm just trying to think critically about the culture of gymnastics and examine what drives the notion that younger = better when it comes to level progression. It's multi-layered and obviously there will be no one size fits all response. I just find these kinds of discussions interesting.

The thing is that there’s really not that many young girls in those levels.. and for the most part the ones that are are Hopes gymnasts.. so you have to have those skills to even try and qualify at those young ages. I too wished that the age requirements for Hopes were different! Wish it was more 11-12, 13-14 ages for Hopes.. but instead I have a daughter that is 11 but will have to qualify as a 12 year old even though she won’t be 12 until the end of the year.. and she has to score higher than a 10-11 she division.. hence why she is pushed to learn higher level skills at a younger age.. also know my message wasn’t meant to be harsh.. and I can say it is frustrating to have to be so young in order to accomplish goals.

 

[Flyaway]

The thing is that there’s really not that many young girls in those levels.. and for the most part the ones that are are Hopes gymnasts.. so you have to have those skills to even try and qualify at those young ages. I too wished that the age requirements for Hopes were different! Wish it was more 11-12, 13-14 ages for Hopes.. but instead I have a daughter that is 11 but will have to qualify as a 12 year old even though she won’t be 12 until the end of the year.. and she has to score higher than a 10-11 she division.. hence why she is pushed to learn higher level skills at a younger age.. also know my message wasn’t meant to be harsh.. and I can say it is frustrating to have to be so young in order to accomplish goals.

Oh I know you weren't being harsh. I can appreciate that it is difficult to have conversations like this about something you are actually living. So know I wasn't trying to be critical of individual choices. I do think that it is healthy to examine factors that determine a cultural expectation. I don't have high hopes that USAG will address this any time soon, but it does make me wonder what things would look like if gymnastics didn't skew so young.

 

[reluctant]

Playing devil's advocate here... Why does it bother anyone how many hours ones daughter trains and the age of the girl and level? I have a level 9 daughter turned 11 mid November, that also is training Hopes/Elite. She does not homeschool, but has a very lovely public school hours that allow her to train 29 hours a week.. Although those hours are shorter while in comp season because of all the travel for qualifiers and reg jo meets. She is healthy... She is happy... She is doing what she loves... And she and a few teammates are the youngest in the state, but that isn't always a benefit at all...

I think the bother comes with feeling like we are complicit in a sport that may be taking advantage of children. Even though gymnastics doesn't have the catastrophic injury level of football, it has a crazy amount of repetitive stress injuries. I struggle with allowing my children to compete in a sport that asks so much of them. I know I don't get to call the shots in other people's lives, but in a sense we are all in this together. If there were rules that put caps on how many hours children could train, it might save them from the life-changing injuries that they are sustaining.

 

[Flicfliclay]

Oh I know you weren't being harsh. I can appreciate that it is difficult to have conversations like this about something you are actually living. So know I wasn't trying to be critical of individual choices. I do think that it is healthy to examine factors that determine a cultural expectation. I don't have high hopes that USAG will address this any time soon, but it does make me wonder what things would look like if gymnastics didn't skew so young.

Exactly, we are living it and I too wish they had more of an age guideline like the boys have.. but we don’t and unfortunately I’m not sure how it can be changed.. but it’s true girls are already older competing at the Olympics which is a good sign. But I tell you I do wish the age was older for girls trying to go elite.. one thing I’m happy about in our situation is that she has amazing coaches and a group of girls my daughter loves and can travel down this path with.

 

[Flicfliclay]

I think the bother comes with feeling like we are complicit in a sport that may be taking advantage of children. Even though gymnastics doesn't have the catastrophic injury level of football, it has a crazy amount of repetitive stress injuries. I struggle with allowing my children to compete in a sport that asks so much of them. I know I don't get to call the shots in other people's lives, but in a sense we are all in this together. If there were rules that put caps on how many hours children could train, it might save them from the life-changing injuries that they are sustaining.

Unless you have a daughter trying to do Hopes or elite there is no reason to be complicit.. there’s no race .. can go at a rate you and your daughter are comfortable with..

 

[Flippin'A]

I would love to see more gymnasts going the Trinity Thomas route. She was able to explore other sports while still doing high level gymnastics and is continuing elite while in college. In many ways I'm jealous of the men who get to do college before elite and have their professional gymnastics careers as adults. I know there are physical differences between MAG and WAG that make this harder, but I think the direction WAG is going in will eventually lead to this becoming more commonplace. But it's really not a problem that individual gymnasts or parents can solve, those of you with elite caliber children are just doing your best to help them through a system that's out of your control.

 

[gymgal]

Playing devil's advocate here... Why does it bother anyone how many hours ones daughter trains and the age of the girl and level? I have a level 9 daughter turned 11 mid November, that also is training Hopes/Elite. She does not homeschool, but has a very lovely public school hours that allow her to train 29 hours a week.. Although those hours are shorter while in comp season because of all the travel for qualifiers and reg jo meets. She is healthy... She is happy... She is doing what she loves... And she and a few teammates are the youngest in the state, but that isn't always a benefit at all...

for me, it's a question of keeping the girls healthy in the long term. 8-9 year old L9's will have 14+ years of that hard pounding, assuming they are striving for the olympics and college. Sure they are happy now at 9, 10, 11 years old. They are doing what they love! That doesn't mean it is good for their minds and bodies long term. It is the parents' and coaches' jobs to plan for their long term health. I guess where I am coming from is that - is there such a big difference in gymnasts coming into elite from a slower pace at 13/14/15 vs going up through Hopes and being a really young jr elite? What is the difference in burnout rates, injuries, etc?

I also feel there is a big difference between training these high level skills in pits and soft surfaces vs competing these skills at such a young age, for so many years. And many of these young girls are competing two seasons in one year, which means a longer amount of time training on hard surfaces.

ETA: I am not talking specifically of any parent/coach of potential/current elites or accusing that they don't have the child's best interest in mind. I am just questioning the rationale of such a fast pace if a slower pace can get them to the same place with less injuries and better chance of staying in the sport long term. There are many parents here of former elites/potential elites who question (in hindsight) their decisions to fast track or even to pursue elite. Just wondering if there is a better way that slows the pace.

 

[Flicfliclay]

for me, it's a question of keeping the girls healthy in the long term. 8-9 year old L9's will have 14+ years of that hard pounding, assuming they are striving for the olympics and college. Sure they are happy now at 9, 10, 11 years old. They are doing what they love! That doesn't mean it is good for their minds and bodies long term. It is the parents' and coaches' jobs to plan for their long term health. I guess where I am coming from is that - is there such a big difference in gymnasts coming into elite from a slower pace at 13/14/15 vs going up through Hopes and being a really young jr elite? What is the difference in burnout rates, injuries, etc?

I also feel there is a big difference between training these high level skills in pits and soft surfaces vs competing these skills at such a young age, for so many years. And many of these young girls are competing two seasons in one year, which means a longer amount of time training on hard surfaces.

I can say we are lucky in that my daughters coaches allow lots of soft landings and much fewer out on the hard surface... which is helpful for them... But I agree it can be worrisome for us parents that have daughters that young... I can say for us we take all precautions we can to ensure she stays healthy and hopefully injury free... but lets face it.. i see compulsory girls with many many injuries... so its hard to say with this sport being as dangerous as it is... if its age and level or just the dang sport being hard!

 

[GymDad44]

DD's gym has a L10 who competed her entire first season at the age of 11 and is doing very well in year 2. Also a 12yo first year L10 this year. No embedded gym home-school and 20-22 hours/week max practice time. It's really all about the gymnast, when you start, and the coaching.

 

[raenndrops]

Exactly, we are living it and I too wish they had more of an age guideline like the boys have.. but we don’t and unfortunately I’m not sure how it can be changed.. but it’s true girls are already older competing at the Olympics which is a good sign. But I tell you I do wish the age was older for girls trying to go elite.. one thing I’m happy about in our situation is that she has amazing coaches and a group of girls my daughter loves and can travel down this path with.

I still think if there wasn't a way to score out of L4 AND L5 AND jump straight to L7 at the age of 7, it would help.
If USAG changed the minimum ages to:
L1 - 4
L2 - 5
L3 - 6
L4 - 7
L5 and L6 - 8 (so you can still "go back and forth" once you score a 32 at L5 or score out of L5 and compete L6 that season)
L7 - 9
L8 - 10
L9 - 11
L10 - 12
Hopes could have 11-12 and 13-14 age groups.

For Xcel (and I have added 2 new levels - one lower than Bronze and one above Diamond):
Iron - 5 ... an introductory level where NO flight acro is allowed except a Roundoff on floor. This would be for TRUE beginners with no JO experience or girls who hadn't competed above L1.
Bronze - 6 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2.
Silver - 7 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2 or L3 and meet the age requirement. First Required level for introductory gymnasts.
Gold - 8 ... for gymnasts who score out of Silver or have competed L3 or L4 and meet the age requirement.
Platinum - 9 ... for gymnasts who score out of Gold and meet the age requirement or have competed L5 or L6.
Diamond - 10 ... for gymnasts who score out of Platinum or have competed L6 or L7 or L8 and meet the age requirement.
Titanium - 11 ... this is where the L9/L10 girls who want to go the Xcel Route should be. 4 A and 4 B skills per event required, with ALL C and D skills allowed and 1 E skill per event allowed, but no bonus for the harder skills (except college coaches may look at you). It would also be for those scoring out of Diamond or have competed L8 and meet the age requirement.

With the trend of upward aging in the Olympics and the transition period USAG is in, I think it would be the perfect time to start adjusting the ages ... of course, gymnasts competing a level currently (as of the time the changes are implemented) would be grandfathered in and not have to drop back a level.
This adjustment in the ages would also lead to less early recruiting from colleges by as much as 1-2 years.

 

[Rose7777]

I still think if there wasn't a way to score out of L4 AND L5 AND jump straight to L7 at the age of 7, it would help.
If USAG changed the minimum ages to:
L1 - 4
L2 - 5
L3 - 6
L4 - 7
L5 and L6 - 8 (so you can still "go back and forth" once you score a 32 at L5 or score out of L5 and compete L6 that season)
L7 - 9
L8 - 10
L9 - 11
L10 - 12
Hopes could have 11-12 and 13-14 age groups.

For Xcel (and I have added 2 new levels - one lower than Bronze and one above Diamond):
Iron - 5 ... an introductory level where NO flight acro is allowed except a Roundoff on floor. This would be for TRUE beginners with no JO experience or girls who hadn't competed above L1.
Bronze - 6 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2.
Silver - 7 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2 or L3 and meet the age requirement. First Required level for introductory gymnasts.
Gold - 8 ... for gymnasts who score out of Silver or have competed L3 or L4 and meet the age requirement.
Platinum - 9 ... for gymnasts who score out of Gold and meet the age requirement or have competed L5 or L6.
Diamond - 10 ... for gymnasts who score out of Platinum or have competed L6 or L7 or L8 and meet the age requirement.
Titanium - 11 ... this is where the L9/L10 girls who want to go the Xcel Route should be. 4 A and 4 B skills per event required, with ALL C and D skills allowed and 1 E skill per event allowed, but no bonus for the harder skills (except college coaches may look at you). It would also be for those scoring out of Diamond or have competed L8 and meet the age requirement.

With the trend of upward aging in the Olympics and the transition period USAG is in, I think it would be the perfect time to start adjusting the ages ... of course, gymnasts competing a level currently (as of the time the changes are implemented) would be grandfathered in and not have to drop back a level.
This adjustment in the ages would also lead to less early recruiting from colleges by as much as 1-2 years.

I heard talk last year that region 6 might trial a titanium level, but haven’t heard anything more recent. Do you know if this is still a possibility?

 

[Flicfliclay]

I still think if there wasn't a way to score out of L4 AND L5 AND jump straight to L7 at the age of 7, it would help.
If USAG changed the minimum ages to:
L1 - 4
L2 - 5
L3 - 6
L4 - 7
L5 and L6 - 8 (so you can still "go back and forth" once you score a 32 at L5 or score out of L5 and compete L6 that season)
L7 - 9
L8 - 10
L9 - 11
L10 - 12
Hopes could have 11-12 and 13-14 age groups.

For Xcel (and I have added 2 new levels - one lower than Bronze and one above Diamond):
Iron - 5 ... an introductory level where NO flight acro is allowed except a Roundoff on floor. This would be for TRUE beginners with no JO experience or girls who hadn't competed above L1.
Bronze - 6 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2.
Silver - 7 ... introductory through having had competed L1 or L2 or L3 and meet the age requirement. First Required level for introductory gymnasts.
Gold - 8 ... for gymnasts who score out of Silver or have competed L3 or L4 and meet the age requirement.
Platinum - 9 ... for gymnasts who score out of Gold and meet the age requirement or have competed L5 or L6.
Diamond - 10 ... for gymnasts who score out of Platinum or have competed L6 or L7 or L8 and meet the age requirement.
Titanium - 11 ... this is where the L9/L10 girls who want to go the Xcel Route should be. 4 A and 4 B skills per event required, with ALL C and D skills allowed and 1 E skill per event allowed, but no bonus for the harder skills (except college coaches may look at you). It would also be for those scoring out of Diamond or have competed L8 and meet the age requirement.

With the trend of upward aging in the Olympics and the transition period USAG is in, I think it would be the perfect time to start adjusting the ages ... of course, gymnasts competing a level currently (as of the time the changes are implemented) would be grandfathered in and not have to drop back a level.
This adjustment in the ages would also lead to less early recruiting from colleges by as much as 1-2 years.

This wouldn't be bad... My daughter did mandate 5 and go level 7 but it was the following season. So she was able to use that time to train. But i see nothing wrong with any of those ages / levels!

 

[GymDad44]

Honestly, while some of the individuals are (or can be) publicized, the sheer number of girls those changes would actually effect by upper optionals is probably in the tiny fractions of one percent. It's possibly a fine guideline to keep from pushing those who may have the talent, but it just won't effect many.

 

[FlippinLilysMom]

Here was my daughters path:
age 8 level 3
age 9 level 4
age 10 level 5/7 (she skipped level 6)
age 11 level 8
age 12 level 9/10 (only did 1 level 9 meet)
Now age 12 (will turn 13 next month) and she is finishing up her second year of level 10 while also doing a second year of HOPES
She goes to school from 8 am to 12:30 pm and trains from 1:30-2:30 for elite and 2:45-7:00 pm for JO

 

[mommyof1]

Re. training hours and school: As the parent of a seventh-grader, I think 20 to 25 hours plus public school would actually be sort of doable up through sixth grade if the kid had study hall instead of PE, no other extracurriculars, and a stay-home parent to handle transportation and on-the-go nutrition. At least in our school, seventh grade is when the homework starts to get more substantive—real essays, challenging math assignments, science lab reports, actual studying for tests. In sixth grade, most of the homework was pretty simple and could be knocked out without much mental effort.

There have been points in time when my kid was spending more than 20 hours a week on gym plus other extracurriculars. Not as physically and mentally demanding as 20-plus hours of high-level gymnastics training, but some of the same logistical challenges. Seventh grade is when we really have had to start cutting back on extras to ensure time for schoolwork.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So who sets the minimum age?

Oh yeah right grown ups.

Reminds me of child actors, there is a limit as to how much they can work......

 

[thefellowsmom]

Sorry, I think this post is a little all over the place but I gotta run out so hopefully you get what I’m saying

We have a level 9 that recently turned 10. She is competing her HOPES routines at JO meets so not scoring particularly well, but is practicing. Elite is the goal so keeping focused on that end goal. Her floor and beam routine would be up to level in level 10 but there is just no reason at this age to push her any higher as her bars and vault live squarely at nine. It is essentially just practice after all.

Just to add to the conversation, our HOPES group practices with their normal groups (they are split across three different groups according to level and age) and then come in one extra day a week for just them. Our level 10s do between 20 and 25 hours a week and our elite track girls do a little over 25 most weeks depending on the time of year.

With this said, my 14 year old second year level 10 is still regularly in the lowest age group, even at big meets. Once she was in the second age group but there were 6 national level HOPES gymnasts at the meet. WOW crazy good gymnastics at that meet! So, the youngest age group had more than usual young ones.

I don’t have a problem with any choices that a family makes for gymnastics. Everyone makes the decisions best for them, sometimes they are good ones, sometimes not. And the thing is you can’t know if you are making that right or wrong decision until much later. I root for all these kids at our gyms and throughout the country, but I also hope for them that when puberty hits they can stay healthy. I have gained a lot of perspective on this over the last couple of years.

Staying at that level of gymnastics for so many years takes a toll on the body that I think should very much be considered in the bigger picture. It’s hard to get through each season as it is at this level and adding puberty and grown bodies to possibly 4+ years or more of already competing at this level seems a little crazy as they still have to keep their grown body healthy for 4-8 more years.

I do think that they push for kids to get to the elite levels so young does limit the opportunities for girls that might grow into an extraordinary gymnast, just not on the required timeline. Resources are thrown at talented 8 year olds while 13 year olds that are still talented are over the hill. Yes, there are exceptions but the rule is trending more and more to the younger and younger kids.

I do get why the push so young. Skills are easier to learn and spot on tiny bodies and pre-puberty fear levels but also this leaves time for major injuries to not derail the process. They are far enough in that losing a year doesn’t end the dream of elite. Sad but true.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I don't get it. It seems like such a conflict of interest for school to be at the gym. I wonder what takes priority? I really feel for these broken beat up girls who leave gymnastics and then realize that they haven't gotten a proper education for years.

Homeschooled does not mean a less than proper education.