Parents I Don't Understand My Child

[bogwoppit]

She wants to do the skill, why would a negative reinforcement, when she cannot do the skill, help her?

I have seen this skill force kids out of gymnastics more than once. The gymmie obsesses, the coach obsesses, the parents obsess and the skill becomes HUGE. Like an insurmountable object in fact.

I think it would be better to ignore the skill, if she mentions it just tell her that it is not big deal, I mean the world will not end if she cannot get a squat on. It is just a skill. It will come or it will not, but you becoming invested in her skill just makes it seem so much more important than it really is.

By attaching a punishment to not getting the skill you make her feel even worse about her inability to get it. Negativity attaches itself to the skill. Not good.

I just do not see the point. Like falling off the beam, or coming last at a meet, they already feel bad enough, why punish further.

I was very sad when one girl in particular quit over the squat on, she was talented and smart and would have got there if left alone. But way too many people became invested in her squat on, including her mom, in the end it became everything and she just stopped.

 

[bogwoppit]

I should clarify that I do make a distinction between a consequence handed out by an authority figure as punishment and a consequence thought up by a person as an incentive.

Why would she think a negative consequence was of benefit? Did you suggest that?

An incentive would be a positive enforcement. As in she gets it and everyone cheers loudly.

 

[cprp]

I so empathize and understand the OP. Been through this! I've come to learn that coachp is so on point here! I feel so strongly about this that I came out of hiding!

 

[cprp]

Bogwoppit I so agree. Ring the bell and cheers from team mates!!!

 

[SignHere]

My DD was struggling with backwards tumbling. It felt like the longest 2 months of my life. I bought the Doc Ali books and tapes. DD said they didn't help. DD wanted to try hypnosis ( her idea) and so I shelled out ridiculous amounts of money on that. Paid for privates. Finally DD was so anxious about the whole situation I took her to a therapist . The therapist helping her deal with general anxiety actually helped with tumbling. Go figure

 

[Natasha]

Not being able to do the skill is consequence enough. Especially since she had it and now lost it. Adding another consequence results in adding to the anxiety and fear. Gymnasts that are going to stay in the sport want the skill so much that not being able to do it is its own consequence. And you suggesting she should come up with a "now" consequence for not jumping to the bar suggests to her that it is important to you too that she jump to the bar, whether you say it or not, that is the message you send.

 

[mimi]

I think you really have to take yourself totally out of the equation. It is a "thing" now in her head and it will continue to be a "thing" the more attention that is being drawn to it.

If she asks you for help just tell her not to think about it now, gymnastics is over for the day, and that she will get it when the time is right. Then move on. It is a pressure cooker now and it will blow sooner or later.

My dd has experienced some fears/lost skills in the past and the pressure builds. I have learned not to even talk about it with her because the conversation just adds to it. And I agree wholeheartedly with coachp...do NOT watch practice. Seriously, sit in the car if you have to or go to Starbucks. Just don't watch.

 

[gymjunkie]

I've thought over this (a lot) and I'm trying to see where having a minor consequence for no follow through will aggravate a fear. Can you share your thought process and experience on this?

Different coach here, but the consequences won't help the situation in any way. There is absolutely no chance a fearful kid will jump to the high bar to avoid V-ups as a consequence (whether or not it's self-imposed or punishment given by an authority figure). It's been my experience that the best answer from a parent to a question like "can you help me get over my fear of X?" Is to say something that assures her that you are not at all worried about her getting the skill, such as. " you don't need to do anything special, you got it before and you'll get it again." Then change the subject. When you jump in with a plan to help the situation, you clue her in to the fact that you too are worried about her not being able to do the skill. That wasn't your intention, but that's how she'll interpret it.

 

[curlymomof3]

To the OP. My dd is also 10 and has lost various skills, including the squat on/jump to high bar. Thanks to CB, I have learned the best thing I can do it to assure her that she will get the skill back and just encourage her to do her best. After about 4-5 months of "losing" the squat on, she got it back after lots of practice and patience from her coach. I have also learned on CB that 10 is a big age to start developing fears and realizing that they can get hurt doing these things. I also wonder if breaking down the skill for her makes it even more stressful and complicated. For example, I hate to drive and even have some irrational fears about driving on the freeway. I have realized that my least anxious times are when I don't think about it too much and just drive. The times that I start to think about the whole process and the small chance of getting in an accident are when the anxiety hits. Perhaps it is better to let her muscles do the work and not think about it so much and eventually it will come more natural to her? Good luck! I know how frustrating it can be to see your Dd struggle with a skill. Gymnastics is hard!!

 

[profmom]

One more voice here in favor of withdrawing yourself from this. DD went through this with the handstand-back handspring on beam, not for a week, not for a month or two, but really for almost two years. It prevented her from moving up to L8 and caused a lot of misery and stress. There is no way that you as a parent can fix it. They have to figure it out and develop strategies to deal with it, once they decide in their own heads that they are really ready to deal with it (or their vestibular system matures enough to make the skill do-able). If they insist on talking about it or crying about it, your role should be just to dial down the stakes and reassure them 1) that they did it before, and when they're ready, they'll do it again, and 2) that you are not personally invested in whether they get it back tomorrow, next week, or never. And then the hard part -- stop trying to help, sit back, and wait until they're ready, however long it takes.

 

[MaryA]

And can I just add that all of us who are recommending keeping quiet on this issue know that this is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to do, and have all been in your situation ourselves, often many times. We are offering up hard-learned advice based on really making a mess of things in the past.

 

[gracyomalley]

another vote for the parent staying out of it....although I know its hard. DD hit tons of fear/confidence issues at 10/11....BHS-BHS on beam being the main one, but other little issues (brief time of not back tumbling, presently a fear of doing her pirouette alone, etc....all related to "near misses" or minor but unsettling falls that she would have laughed off at 9...) have come and gone. Her past coach was patient last year, let her stay L7, do a BWO-BHS series, etc....she won lots of medals but came out less confident. (I was pretty sure that would backfire...but it wasn't my call and shouldn't have been....)

New coach is focusing on everything about L8 BUT the series....says she doesn't care what series DD does (she can do several acceptable L8 combos....but really wanted the BHS-BHS - and old coach 'required" that series for L8 - even though it led to many girls not connecting anything on beam....new coach feels its more important for her to consistently connect things then that they be the hardest she can do....) as long as she is progressing overall. I think this approach will work better - if any approach will work...

The squat on is scary for some girls - and of course in compulsories there is less room to replace things with skills a kid is comfortable with - but I think its very true that if the feared skill becomes how they identify themselves (DD speaks of not wanting to be defeated by the series....doesn't matter that she got 9.3 plus scores on beam all year - she still felt defeated...her words...) then gymnastics is no longer fun, their confidence in both the gym and outside takes a hit, etc....at an age when many girls are "wilting" anyway...

In the long run, the goal I have for my kids with activities is to finish them feeling good about the experience....There's no reason why not doing the squat on means your DD can't work all the other skills of L4 and up train others (she certainly should be working on high bar....climb up, jump from block, coach spot on squat on...etc) while the squat on is worked as the coach sees fit and de-emphasized as much as possible.
All the mental fitness work in the world won't work if the kid is focused on what they can't do and not what they can....

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

And can I just add that all of us who are recommending keeping quiet on this issue know that this is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD to do, and have all been in your situation ourselves, often many times. We are offering up hard-learned advice based on really making a mess of things in the past.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I haven't ever known a gym parent that doesn't have to work hard at not getting too involved. It's especially hard when your child ASKS for help or advice. I don't have anything else to add that hasn't already been said. Good luck to you and your dd.

 

[sce]

It is hard to see them deal with fear or lose a skill. I do think how a parent responds can make it a bigger or smaller issue. I disagree though, about completely staying out of it. If my child wants to talk about something that is frustrating them, then I will talk with them. How the conversation goes is up to me though. Reflecting the feelings the child is expressing is okay. Offering hugs and encouragement is okay. Trying to fix it, even when asked by the child, not okay. Now asking the child what they think might help them and getting them coming up with solutions (again if the child initiates the conversation) can be helpful.

We are their parents, and are there to encourage and support them. When ds was getting really down on himself at practice about fear of a skill, his coach did briefly talk to me. One possibility was privates. I then talked with ds to see if the wanted that, which he did. The first lesson he went for the skill -with a spot- and was elated. If I had not been involved in the conversation then there never would have been that private lesson.

 

[Ex member]

My dd has been training competitive gymnastics for 7 months training twice a week and I have learnt the following:

Try not to watch too much as it only leads to frustration on my part, I would rather dd show me when she can get a skill instead of watching her struggle.

Try not to worry too much if dd gets fears over a skill, my dd had a fear of doing forwards rolls on the high beam after a fall and it lead to a frustration time for my dd and I, I learnt to let her get on with it and now she can do forwards rolls on the high beam with no fear issues. My dd's new skill she is working on is straddle undershoots and last week was the first time I watched properly and what I saw frustrated me - she hang around the chalk box for ages to avoid doing the skill and let the other girls go in front of her a few times. I had a word with the coach after the session to make sure there was no issue with dd and there wasn't, the coach said that dd was struggling as she was younger and weaker (not exactly true as dd beat most of them in a conditioning and strength test), dd told me that she let the other girls go past her a few times because she was feeling tired - lesson learnt to just let her get on with it, I am not watching this week as they are doing daytime hours, I am sure that dd will learn the undershoot in her own time, some of the girls have also started jumping to the high bar - this is another skill dd will struggle with due to her size but I'm sure she will eventually get it.

 

[Becauseisaid]

It's been my experience that the best answer from a parent to a question like "can you help me get over my fear of X?" Is to say something that assures her that you are not at all worried about her getting the skill, such as. " you don't need to do anything special, you got it before and you'll get it again." Then change the subject. When you jump in with a plan to help the situation, you clue her in to the fact that you too are worried about her not being able to do the skill. That wasn't your intention, but that's how she'll interpret it.

Hmm...makes sense. And to be honest, the majority of the time that IS my response when DD starts talking about it.

To answer Bog's question, I actually was not the one to come up with the consequence though I did approve of it. DD has had the skill for quite a while before the fear hit her. So when she came up with her plan to get over it, my question to her was "And what happens if you don't jump?". As long as the gymnast is driving the train in this instance, I saw her choosing to do V-ups as a negative reinforcement as no different than when her coach has the girls do push up when they fall off the beam. I honestly still do not see the negative long-term effect. (That's not me being stubborn; that's me trying to see all the angles.) When the gymnast is the one initiating the conversation and the plan to get over her fear, I can't help but believe my role is to encourage her. I would feel differently if I were the one telling her to "do this" or "do that".

One thing you have to realize is that my poor kid has heard me tell her a thousand times "the most important thing is that you have fun and love doing it - everything else will work itself out". I back off as much as possible because I DO realize that this is DD's sport and she has qualified coaches working with her. But I also feel that teachable life lessons come everywhere. And my job as Mom is to use those moments. As nice as it would be for gymnastics coaches to say that parents never interfere all the time, it's not realistic. It's also not terribly practical. Your job is to create a quality gymnast. My job is to create a quality person. Sometimes that means I lead my DD to answers by making her think, sometimes that means I lecture and nag, and sometimes that means I shut my mouth and let her deal with the consequences of her actions alone.

 

[gymjunkie]

We could start an entire new thread in the coaching forum of why you should never give a kid push-ups for falling off the beam, lol.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Hmm...makes sense. And to be honest, the majority of the time that IS my response when DD starts talking about it.

To answer Bog's question, I actually was not the one to come up with the consequence though I did approve of it. DD has had the skill for quite a while before the fear hit her. So when she came up with her plan to get over it, my question to her was "And what happens if you don't jump?". As long as the gymnast is driving the train in this instance, I saw her choosing to do V-ups as a negative reinforcement as no different than when her coach has the girls do push up when they fall off the beam. I honestly still do not see the negative long-term effect. (That's not me being stubborn; that's me trying to see all the angles.) When the gymnast is the one initiating the conversation and the plan to get over her fear, I can't help but believe my role is to encourage her. I would feel differently if I were the one telling her to "do this" or "do that".

One thing you have to realize is that my poor kid has heard me tell her a thousand times "the most important thing is that you have fun and love doing it - everything else will work itself out". I back off as much as possible because I DO realize that this is DD's sport and she has qualified coaches working with her. But I also feel that teachable life lessons come everywhere. And my job as Mom is to use those moments. As nice as it would be for gymnastics coaches to say that parents never interfere all the time, it's not realistic. It's also not terribly practical. Your job is to create a quality gymnast. My job is to create a quality person. Sometimes that means I lead my DD to answers by making her think, sometimes that means I lecture and nag, and sometimes that means I shut my mouth and let her deal with the consequences of her actions alone.

You are seeing it right now.

 

[mom2three]

I totally understand! Same thing happened to mine. Only she ended up quitting after 1.5 yrs of sitting in a squat on the low bar every practice (and competition!), staring up at the high bar. She has a huge fear of heights, which doesn't work well with gymnastics. She jumped for a few months but then the fear took over again. It's so frustrating because you know they can do it, and have seen them do it! She still loves to tumble and ended up dancing more. She's happier now...
I get not putting pressure on them, etc, however, after paying what equates to a car payment or vacation home every month, there's only so many years you can take of the fear before it's time to move on.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Ok. One last vote for complete non-chalance.

DD, 2 years ago, trying to get her giant. Huge pressure from coach, who teaches pre-competitive, saying she'd be his first athlete in Canada to compete a giant. (Usually precomps get to L5 or less so he was excited). Huge pressure on her. She wanted to compete L7 so badly. Long story short: I got involved. I paid for privates for months,I talked to her when she brought it up which was constantly. We were in giant hell. Two weeks before her first meet, they taught her an uprise,which at that time could replace the giant here. She compete L7 and did fine.

First day back in the gum after comp season, she got her giant. That day and every day since.

Now, if she has a fear, or a bad day, and I know she's tried her best I limit it to 'don't worry. Every day can't be your best day". Or "did you try your best?.... Then that's all you can do". And she works through it, and I suffer for her in silence. And I will say that EVERY SINGLE TIME it has worked since the day she got her giant.

Pressure, whether perceived or real, is a gymnastics killer.